[OldHat]

So, before I make any final purchases, I am going to see how these lists hold up to some scrutiny. I have what I feel are solid lists at 1500 and 1750, leaving me 2000 and 2500. Before I go buying up a bunch of stuff, I want to get the most bang for my buck. The more I buy at my local shop, the more I save. These lists are for a competitive environment without worries of composition or "friendliness", because my shop is intense and doesn't shy from any challenge. That being said, how do these look:


HQ:
Warboss
w/ Attack Squig, Bike, Cybork, Power Klaw
[150]

Big Mek
w/ Kustom Force Field
[85]

Troops:
(10) Nob Bikers
w/ Cybork
- Power Klaw
- Power Klaw, Waaagh! Banner
- Power Klaw, Kombi-Scorcha
- Big Choppa
- Big Choppa, Bosspole
- Big Choppa, Kombi-Scorcha
- Choppa
- Choppa, Kombi-Scorcha
- Choppa, Ammo Runt
- Painboy
[658]

(12) 'Ard Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[205]

(12) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[157]

(12) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[157]

(19) Slugga Boyz (Mek)
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[154]

(20) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[160]

Heavy:
Battlewagon
w/ Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, 2x Big Shootas
[135]

Battlewagon
w/ Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, 2x Big Shootas
[135]

[1996]

This list was my hardest to make. At 1750, I feel I have all the tools I need to win. For this list, it was all compromise! In the end, I am not sure I will be doing too many 2000pt games, but I like to have a list handy.

HQ:
Warboss
w/ Attack Squig, Bike, Cybork, Power Klaw
[150]

Big Mek
w/ Kustom Force Field
[85]

Elites:
(14) Kommandos
w/ 2x Burnas, Snikrot
[255]

Troops:
(10) Nob Bikers
w/ Cybork
- Power Klaw
- Power Klaw, Waaagh! Banner
- Power Klaw, Kombi-Scorcha
- Big Choppa
- Big Choppa, Bosspole
- Big Choppa, Kombi-Scorcha
- Choppa
- Choppa, Kombi-Scorcha
- Choppa, Ammo Runt
- Painboy
[658]

(12) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[157]

(12) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[157]

(12) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
Trukk
w/ Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job
[157]

(19) Slugga Boyz (Mek)
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[154]

(20) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[160]

(20) Slugga Boyz
Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[160]

Heavy:
Battlewagon
w/ Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, 2x Big Shootas
[135]

Battlewagon
w/ Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, 2x Big Shootas
[135]

Battlewagon
w/ Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, 2x Big Shootas
[135]

[2498]

For this list, there was no compromise at all! Whatever I wanted, I could afford. In the end, I went with a single Nob unit, not two, as to not tie up too many assets in too few units. The Kommando unit is back, as I had one at 1750, but had to cut for 2000. Now I have a nice unit to harass with and keep folks from the board edges, meaning better control of deployment. The KFF Mek rides up from with a Battlewagon that gives as much cover to the Trukks as possible, while the Wagons edge out on the flanks. Hard to do, but it would be a massive anvil that my Bikers can hammer against.

Anyhow, let me know what you think, where I can improve, and if these are solid enough to win big at tourneys and local competitions. Thanks.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Welcome to the Orks!

That unit of nob bikers + warboss is really overloaded. 6-7 nob bikers is fine, and saves you enough points for another unit. The big choppas can also go. They're very lousy...and on that note, for shame. Unique nob bikers? That's the cheesiest of the cheese, as far as I'm concerned.

The trukks look great.

The big mek could either use some 'eavy armor or cybork, but it's not mandatory. A burna would also give the unit a template attack. It's up to you.

I prefer shoota boyz in units of 20+, especially if they're in battlewagons. It makes the unit a lot more versatile.

I don't use boarding planks, but some people do, so it's up to you. Personally, I've found that if I'm that close to the enemy, I'm leaving the battlewagon that turn. All in all, I think armor plates would be more useful, especially if you're using slugga boyz over shoota boyz.

Instead of 2 big shootas, give them a kannon and big shoota. That way you can move 6in and still fire both guns (kannon is a defensive weapon when fired as a frag shot).

Good luck!

 

[OldHat]

Yea, I am not too keen on some of that. The big, unique Biker Mob is not "cheese", it is just apart of the Codex. Players at my shop won't cry about it. Big Choppas are awesome, not just for wound allocation, but to also boost strength. Not much of a drawback, really. I prefer one large, Fearless unit that can and will wreck the opposition than a few smaller ones. Also, if I split them, I am forced to take one as an Elites choice. I prefer the ability to conga-line them out with their huge bases and claim/contest multiple objectives.

Boarding Planks mean that I don't need to get out to bust tanks, which I think is a boon. I would also really prefer the max amount of attacks on the charge, so Sluggas are ideal. I need volume of wounds.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Fearless? Nob bikers aren't fearless. In fact, leadership is one of their main drawbacks. They start out fearless, since they're 11 models total, but it's very rare that you have to take a leadership check without taking casualties. By the time you have to take a panic check, either from shooting or close combat losses, you won't be fearless anymore.

Nobz with big choppas lose their extra close combat attack, since they're a two handed weapon. Mathematically, it's no better against opponents with T4 or greater, when you factor in the lost attack, and against opponents with T3 or lower, the strength difference does nothing. It only matters against vehicles, and I personally don't feel that's worth 5 points a guy.

If you like sluggas in wagons, then use sluggas in wagons. It's not a bad choice, as many people play that way. I prefer versatility over power, but it comes down to personal choice.

You don't think the unique nob trick is cheesy? Alright then, explain how it works in logical, real world terms. In other words, how would having unique equipment make a real life unit of soldiers twice as durable as a unit that used identical equipment? Let's say I'm a soldier, and I have a pistol but my partner has a big axe. By this logic, we'd be a lot more difficult to shoot to death than if we both had pistols. It just doesn't make any sense, and that's why it's cheesy. It's exploiting a poorly written rule in a completely unrealistic way.

 

[Gorfang]

Now Grax, you know I'm with you on the nob biker situation, but don't try to bring realism into the argument. That's a slippery slope that never leads to anything good. Examples would be 20 shootas firing from a single point from the front of a battlewagon, a force field mysteriously increasing its radius when inside a vehicle, etc. If his playing group doesn't want to bite his head off for taking the unit, that's all that really matters.

I will say that it is a liability with the new Nids & Space Wolves though. Lots of S8+ ranged weapons in both armies, certain Nid units will make you cry (lots of instant death, and a guy who forces you to reroll successful invulnerable saves, while also ignoring regular saves...), and -LD powers in both lists. If you don't have any SW or Nid players in your group though...no worries then.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Okay, you have a point there, Gorfang. I guess there are always rule 'abnormalities'. It's like my father always said whenever I complained about a plot hole in Star Trek:

"Is that where the show stopped being realistic enough for you?"

That said, I still think the unique nob trick is problematic. The main problem is you have to choose whether you place the earlier wounds on the more or less valuable biker nobz. If you put it on the more 'expendable' nobz, then the instant death (S8+) attacks will be taking out the more valuable nobz, since those attacks have to take out unwounded models when possible. If you wound the more valuable nobz first, then when massed fire puts a wound on every nob, you have a good chance of losing them early.

It seems to cause as much trouble as it solves, and you have to pay around 30-40 points extra to make it work. It's just not worth it, in my opinion.

 

[OldHat]

Well, no one at my shop cries about using the rules. So, its no trouble for me to use a good, solid unit.

As for SW and Nids, I am not worried. Instant Death has always been a weakness, but something that must be wisely played around. A bad general will make a mess of any unit, even Nob Bikers. Keeping them away from units that will mop the floor with them is best. I prefer to swamp those units with big mobs, dealing out a high volume of wounds and forcing failed saves.

I am not happy with either list, though. I think I will be re-doing it, maybe with some non-Biker Nob options. Still unsure.

 

[Serbi]

I'm confused....

Why would you post your army list in a thread if all you are going to do is tell people their wrong for pointing out it's weaknesses?

 

[OldHat]

I'm confused....

Why would you post your army list in a thread if all you are going to do is tell people their wrong for pointing out it's weaknesses?

I'm confused....

I don't see any "weaknesses" being pointed out, just preferences and opinions.

 

[mynameisgrax]

I'm confused....

Why would you post your army list in a thread if all you are going to do is tell people their wrong for pointing out it's weaknesses?

Welcome to the internet.

 

[tinytim84]

well i would say your big flaw is you lack a way to deal with any kind of armor from a distance.
The second big shoota on your battle wagon serves pretty much no purpous sence it will never get fire.
Yes the nob unit is nice and strong and evreyone that power games loves it but to be honist i like my nobz in a wagon better.
And lastly i watched a guy put his nob biker unit down on a heavy terrain city bored his opponent vary politely asked him what they where when he said nob bikers he said ok a shook his head. Then the guy proceeded to deploy as much of his army as he could on the second story of buildings where the nobs could not get to them shot evreything on foot to death in 3 turns and spent the next 3 firing everything he had at the bikers till they where all dead. Point of my story Bikes cant fly and they cant climb walls that is a pretty big weakness if you ask me.

 

[OldHat]

Orks have little to no long-range tank, anyhow. Lootas are an exception and are a static element that don't fit a mobile army. I do have the ability to turbo 24" and enjoy a 3+ cover save, putting me in striking range of most stuff I need to kill pretty easily. That is about as good as a Speed Freak list can muster for ranged anti-tank. The second Big Shootas are not there to shoot, but to absorb weapon-destroyed hits.

Also, I play standard terrain games where no one can pull that crap. Also, I have plenty of other units that will be storming those buildings even if I did encounter terrain like that.

I would call those negligible problems with the list and simply strategic and tactical issues I would need to overcome.