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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Grand HE army is still in Virginia and I will be using my friends HE army units instead, the problem is that he doesn't have the units I need (well the ones I know that would be effective using my custom list) So I am going to use his models, however I need some suggestions on what to do with what he has, This is an official tournament so it will have all the standard rules, including painted well (which isn't a problem because he is a decent painter).

So... Suggestions? How do I make these units into a good 2000 pt HE tourney army?

Here is the list of what he has...
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12 Silver Helms (why can't he have DP's = (
20 Archers
20 Spearmen (or lothern sea gaurd...)
4 Ellyrian Reaver Knights
13 Swordmasters
9 Phoenix Gaurd (glad he has these = )
10 White Lions (ditto)
1 Tirnoc Chariot
1 Mounted mage
1 Tyrion (old model, could pass as a HE general mounted...)
1 Teclis
1 Imrik (to my knowledge this is not current with the rules and will most likely not be allowed, but I am thinking of swapping out the rider (Imrik) for a mounted lord or hero...

Please give me your proposal lists for these units. I would greatly appreciate it because I do not usually use so much core... (and pretty much never silverhelms) any proposals will be taken seriously. The tourney is this Saturday, and I will get points just for playing in it cause I am in this league, however I don't wanna look like a tard... 21 So if you got any tips, Im all ears... (errr eyes? since this is a forum? 21)

Regards,

VD*

 

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Ugh... not a ton to work with here... no Dragon Princes, no RBTs, and no Eagles is going to make this very very difficult. But the good news is, it's not impossible.

I think you more or less have to give up hope on the Phoenix guard, they are really ineffective in units of less than 15... they absolutely have to have static CR to win combats where they don't outnumber people. Also, the Reavers are useless since you need minimum unit size of 5. Trying to run single chariots is not a particularly brilliant proposition either... they need to work in tandems, or have an appropriate counter-threat to put on the other end of your battle line.

That being said, you're left with:
12 Silver Helms
20 Archers
20 Spearmen/LSG
13 Swordmasters
10 White Lions
1 Mounted mage
1 Tyrion
1 Teclis
1 Imrik

You can use Imrik for either a Dragon Mage, or a Prince on a dragon. Tyrion and Teclis can pass off as generic characters as well: mounted prince/noble, and mage on foot respectively, and you have a mounted mage to work with already. Obviously you can't field all three of the non-generics as is, owing to only having 1 Lord choice available, but as to which one you should pick, I have no idea. The thing that will probably hurt the most besides the non-availability of the above mentioned Dragon Princes/RBTs/Eagles is not being able to take a BSB, since you don't have an appropriate model.

You might try something like this:
10 Archers
10 Archers
20 Spearmen, Full Command
7 Swordmasters, Champion & Musician
6 Swordmasters, Champion & Musician
10 White Lions, Champion & Musician
6 Silver Helms, Full Command
6 Silver Helms, Full Command

That would put you at 1180 points before characters or any magic items... Lv 2 Dragon Mage with Silver Wand and Ring of Fury + Lv 4 Archmage on Horse with Book of Hoeth would be 819, which would be 1999 total, but I have absolutely no idea if this type of list would be any good without RBTs or Eagles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good News! I made him spend some $... 21 21 21 Now he has 2 RBT, although they aren't completed, but should be by the tournament, that will help this list a lot! Hmmm I guess I will factor that in, thanks for your help! If there are any more suggestions feel free to make them, I am somewhat of a veteren player and already have a nice 2000 pt list that I use, however with these pieces I am absolutely clueless... I am very tempted to use the PG... I actaully use them in groups of 10 sometimes with a mage in there for obvious reasons... I wonder if that would be a good idea here...

Regards,

 

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Well first things Vanquisher...welcome to LO and in particular the HE threads.

Ok now down to the list.

Really I think it's just a case of playing around with what you have.

The first thing i noticed is that as this is a tournament, (although you can use it most of the time), the thing you need to take advantage of most is the 'counts as rule'.

So with this in mind here's how I would set up your list.

Teclis: 'Counts as' Archmage. Lvl 4, Book of Hoeth
Mage. Lvl 2, Mounted, Power Stone, Jewel of Dusk
Tyrion: 'Counts as' Noble. Barded Elven Steed, GW, Shield, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Pheonix.
10 Archers.
10 Archers
20 Spear Elves. Full Command. War Banner
7 Sword Masters. Musician, Champion
6 Sword Masters. Musician, Champion
10 White Lions. Musician, Champion
6 Silver Helms, (here's the important bit), 'Counts as' Dragon Princes. Full command. Banner of Ellyrion.
6 Silver Helms: 'Counts as' Dragon Princes. Full command. Amulet of Fire, Banner of Sorcery.
2 RBT

This gives you more than 2000 points but I just wanted to show you the ways I would run each of the units that you have.
Just chose the sections that best suit your plans and laying style.

If it was me I would keep all the characters. Have the 2 Archer units and 2 RBT pepper away at the enemy along with the magic and have the Spear Elves and White Lions hold the center whilst the Dragon Princes take a flank each and have the larger unit of Sword Masters hold back for a counter charge beside the Spear Elves. if only we had 5 Ellyrion Reavers you would have a nice march blocking unit.....eh oh no use dreaming :)

I don't think that anyone will object to you using Silver Helms as DP as you are counting them all the same so should be no confusion as long as you explain at the start.

Just my thought but hope it helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In this Caliber of a tournament I believe that Proxying (aka counts as rule) is strickly forbidden, however I could be wrong but I don't think so, or they wouldn't require a decent paint job on all of them... I plan on bringing 4 lists. 2 Proxied lists (counts as) and 2 lists that are strickly of what he has, just in case... If anyone could give me sample lists for either it would be appreciated... I have littel time to make rough drafts atm because I got an A & P 2 Test in 2 hours = ( Back to studying .... >_<

Regards,

 

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In this Caliber of a tournament I believe that Proxying (aka counts as rule) is strickly forbidden, however I could be wrong but I don't think so, or they wouldn't require a decent paint job on all of them... I plan on bringing 4 lists. 2 Proxied lists (counts as) and 2 lists that are strickly of what he has, just in case... If anyone could give me sample lists for either it would be appreciated... I have littel time to make rough drafts atm because I got an A & P 2 Test in 2 hours = ( Back to studying .... >_<

Regards,

According to what I have heard, I think the "counts as" rule and proxying are two distinct entities.

Obviously converting your Silver Helms in pseudo Dragon Princes by making them "veterens" (which is one that I am planning to do) is different to using plain Silver Helms models as Dragon Princes. The former being "counts as" and the latter being proxying.

I've never been to a tournament so it's just a theory.
 

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Well I know here in the UK at the grand tournament, it says in the rule pack that as long as you use all of one type of model, (in this case Silver Helms), as something else and inform your opponent before the match, then that is fine. For example my Sword Masters are actually converted DE Executioners but I've always been able to use them. You do still need to follow the WYSIWYG rule though so you couldn't have something armed with a different set of weapons i.e. hand weapons and count them as lances.
Like swntzu said if you want to have some fluff just say that they are a veteran unit of Silver helms that 'count as' Dragon Princes. I really can't see this as a problem but if your worried just ask the organisers of the event.
 

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At least in my local GW stores here in texas, they usually like you to have your models painted but they do allow the "counts as" rule as long as you inform your opponents.
for the models you have i would suggest taking most of your elite troops in small units with alot of shooting and magic to back them up. I think the imrik could count as just a mounted hero too. if you could spend a few bucks on an eagle or 2 use those to slow the enemy down. This strategy usually works well for me. Also i was wondering what your real army looks like because you may be able to make something simmilar to fit your play style.
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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At least in my local GW stores here in texas, they usually like you to have your models painted but they do allow the "counts as" rule as long as you inform your opponents.
for the models you have i would suggest taking most of your elite troops in small units with alot of shooting and magic to back them up. I think the imrik could count as just a mounted hero too. if you could spend a few bucks on an eagle or 2 use those to slow the enemy down. This strategy usually works well for me. Also i was wondering what your real army looks like because you may be able to make something simmilar to fit your play style.
This certainly is an idea but you're basing your entire strategy on one spell (curse of arrow attraction). Now since you can only guarantee one mage getting that spell (maybe 2 with a 4th level mage with silver wand), isn't this a bit risky?
 

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Curse of arrow attraction is a good spell but i wouldnt say it is the basis of the entire strategy. Shooting is shooting even if it misses some times. the army i use has 3 mages... a lvl 4 that i use high magic with and 2 lvl 2's that use lore of the heavens. one of those mages has the seer staff (why cant they both. i hate these new rules sometimes!!) even in armies with little to no magic curse of arrow attraction will probably get dispelled.
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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Curse of arrow attraction is a good spell but i wouldnt say it is the basis of the entire strategy. Shooting is shooting even if it misses some times. the army i use has 3 mages... a lvl 4 that i use high magic with and 2 lvl 2's that use lore of the heavens. one of those mages has the seer staff (why cant they both. i hate these new rules sometimes!!) even in armies with little to no magic curse of arrow attraction will probably get dispelled.
With the high cost of HE shooting you really need it to hit when you're going shooty with a list hence the critical nature of curse of arrow attraction.

Anyway, we've hijacked this thread a bit so I'll shut now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I made him get some Shadow Warriors (5) and he chose to get Caradryan (I thought he should get Korhil, but whatever) Hmmm Now how to incorporate... Suggestions?!!

Regards,
 

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i dont have they new book yet (gonna get it tomorow, the nearest GW is like 45 minutes away DOH!!) but definately take the shadow warriors and probably put a champion with them to snipe characters and enemy artillery. then take all of the WL PG and SM for some flankers for all of those spearmen. then you'd have some points left to fill in any way you choose to fit your style.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Results

I Got Second place in the RTT tournament! And got $50 ^^ I am quite happy indeed, I lost to this awesome Lizardman guy, who won first place, but I am still quite pleased with the results!

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't have the list anymore = ( I had to give my only copy to the store so that they could have it to check and I didn't bother to get it back cause honestly it wasn't that great of a list. We played the treasure hunt scenerios, or kill the general scenarios, so my plan was simple, put a lot of points into my General to assure that he would survive, and so that he could kill the enemy general. To do this I put a lot of stuff on him...

Noble

Great Weapon
Bow of the Seafarer
and a combination giving him a 2+ armour save with rerolls (or maybe it was 3)
And I put him on the expensive Moon Dragon, I would fly over or flank his units and then blow fire and shoot the "bolt thrower" from the bow into the ranks, filleting large groups of Chaos Warriors (since their armour is useless against a bolt thrower ^^)

It all worked out quite well for what I had and I am well pleased, I know I woulda won if I had had all of my units ^^

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will request my list back from the tournament place so I can post it since I don't quite remember what it was, I do remember having 2 groups of 15 spearmen however, and some PG and a lion chariot and tirnoc chariot... Thanks everyone for your input ^^


Regards,

 
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