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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all!

So as my last post indicated I'm getting back into this game after a number of years and setting up a little 8 player tourney with some buddies of mine. Races are as follows...

Orcs & Goblins (Me :D)
Dark Elves X2
Tomb Kings
Lizardmen
Beastmen (Slannesh Themed)
Daemons
Empire

8 Players Total

Quite a diverse list... After getting some great insight from you guys I've devised this list. Please critique as necessary.

Lords

Orc Warboss ***General***
- Armor of Destiny
- Potion of Toughness
- Enchanted Shield
- Dragonbane Gem
- Luckstone

Orc Great Shaman
- Level 4
- Fencer's Blades
- Talisman of Preservation
- Potion of Toughness (Can I have 1 on each lord?)

Heroes

Black Orc Big Boss *BSB*
- Charmed Shield

Core Units

38 Orc Big Uns
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Musician

50 Night Goblins
- Bows
- Musician

Special Units

29 Black Orcs
- Flag
- Musician

4 Spear Chukkas (Thinking of dropping one of these to give black orcs shields... But I wanna be able to drop those hydras fast. What say you?)

6 Trolls

Rare Units

Goblin Doom Diver

Snotling Pump Wagon
- Spiky Rollers


Exactly 2000 Points. Note that a toughness pot was given to both lords... Not sure if I can do that. I guess I'll find a magic flag or another big un if I cant. What do you guys think? Im thinking of putting the mage and warboss in with the big uns and the black orc big boss in the the black orcs.
 

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I haven't played Orcs & Goblins for years but I know fantasy like the back of my hand so I will try and help out the best that I can. :)

Hey all!

So as my last post indicated I'm getting back into this game after a number of years and setting up a little 8 player tourney with some buddies of mine. Races are as follows...

Orcs & Goblins (Me :D)
Dark Elves X2
Tomb Kings
Lizardmen
Beastmen (Slannesh Themed)
Daemons
Empire

8 Players Total

Quite a diverse list... After getting some great insight from you guys I've devised this list. Please critique as necessary.

Lords

Orc Warboss ***General***
- Armor of Destiny
- Potion of Toughness
- Enchanted Shield
- Dragonbane Gem
- Luckstone

If I'm not mistaken you have 2 things from both the talisman category and the magic armor category on this lord, which is illegal. You are only allowed one magic item per category per character and you cannot take multiples of the same magic item in any one list.


Orc Great Shaman
- Level 4
- Fencer's Blades
- Talisman of Preservation
- Potion of Toughness (Can I have 1 on each lord?)

At first glance this seems like more than 500 points on Lords but I could be wrong. Also, unless you are planning to have your shaman in fights he probably doesnt need the magic weapon.

Heroes

Black Orc Big Boss *BSB*
- Charmed Shield

If you are not giving him a magic banner then I would give him some more protection items.

Core Units


How many points do you have in core because it doesnt seem like enough to me. You need a minimum of 25% of your army in Core which at 2000 points is 500. I do not have my book on me so I havent added anything up I just dont feel like you have enough. I could be wrong.

38 Orc Big Uns
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Musician

Savage Orcs are better, enough said. If you decide to stick with the regular boyz then may I suggest HW/S? That parry save and increased armor will make your boyz more survivable for the long and drawn out combats that fantasy seems to be built around now-a-days. Plus you only get one supporting attack per guy so your buying everyone extra choppas to get 5 more attacks. Less than that if you have characters in it. It just isn't enough to be worth it to me personally, though Borak has much more experience with the army than I do and might say otherwise.


50 Night Goblins
- Bows
- Musician

With the rules for shooting being what they are, running 50 in what im assuming will either be a 5x10 or a 10x5 block gives diminishing returns. Could I suggest that you go with 2 units of 20 with bows, music, and flag? That way everyone is shooting and you get some more banners in there for the blood and glory scenario. Also, sprinkle fanatics to taste.

Special Units

29 Black Orcs
- Flag
- Musician

A solid unit. I try to take shields on them though. It's just a personal preference. It allows you to chose the HW/S combo in combat and get that parry save and the increased armor and it increases your armor vs shooting.

4 Spear Chukkas (Thinking of dropping one of these to give black orcs shields... But I wanna be able to drop those hydras fast. What say you?)

I never was a fan of these because I dont feel that BS 2 bolt throwers that misfire if you roll a one were worth it. However their saving grace is that you can cheaply spam them so I guess if you have enough of these then they still might work. Maybe try some doom divers or a rock lobba.

6 Trolls

Love this unit. Watch out for your LD bubbles though as the stupidity can be your death.

Rare Units

Goblin Doom Diver

​Love these things! Don't forget that they ignore armor!

Snotling Pump Wagon
- Spiky Rollers


Exactly 2000 Points. Note that a toughness pot was given to both lords... Not sure if I can do that. I guess I'll find a magic flag or another big un if I cant. What do you guys think? Im thinking of putting the mage and warboss in with the big uns and the black orc big boss in the the black orcs.

You cant duplicate magic items so no, only one of the lords can take the toughness pot.
 

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1) That's true, the duplicate magic items are illegal, as well as two pieces of armour and two talismans on the Lord.

2) Stick with Fencer's Blades, they can offer you some protection in CC, and you are going to end up in CC. Take a Dispel Scroll instead of the Potion of Toughness, maybe. There is an altogether different question of which lore is better adn if you're not better off with a Night Goblin Great Shaman, or two-three level 1 Shamans, but let's leave that.

3) Your BSB is just as important as the General, protect him, right now he's killed by the first round of combat. Also, he doesn't need to be Black Orc, even if fielding BOBBBSB is a tempting prospect.

4) Two choppas is waaay better than shields, ten additional attacks are precious and it's handy when fighting to the flank/rear. You can take a magic standard on them, take Discipline. Savage Orcs are arguably better (another attack, though again only the front rank, and a possible 5++), but you should also invest in a SO Shaman then, with the Head, so it's getting expensive, you can be tempted out of the battlefield and you have no access to magic standars - common Orcs are good too.

5) I don't think you should split the Gobbos, although it's a popular way of running them. You'd lose your only real tarpit unit. But it's true, they won't shoot as much as you would like them too. As long as you have other shooters (and the warmachines fill that, I feel), you should be better off with hand weapons and shields. Also, Fantics help.

6) Banner of Eternal Flame would be good here. Remember it negates Regeneration, but also causes Fear in cavalry etc.

7) I'm not sure about all the Chukkas, I'd drop two, but don't have experience with them, so it's really what you like.

Looks like a solid base, minor tweaking and you could rock.
 

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1) That's true, the duplicate magic items are illegal, as well as two pieces of armour and two talismans on the Lord.

2) Stick with Fencer's Blades, they can offer you some protection in CC, and you are going to end up in CC. Take a Dispel Scroll instead of the Potion of Toughness, maybe. There is an altogether different question of which lore is better adn if you're not better off with a Night Goblin Great Shaman, or two-three level 1 Shamans, but let's leave that.

Fair point, Didnt even think about the WS 10 making him harder to hit. I like this idea.

3) Your BSB is just as important as the General, protect him, right now he's killed by the first round of combat. Also, he doesn't need to be Black Orc, even if fielding BOBBBSB is a tempting prospect.

4) Two choppas is waaay better than shields, ten additional attacks are precious and it's handy when fighting to the flank/rear. You can take a magic standard on them, take Discipline. Savage Orcs are arguably better (another attack, though again only the front rank, and a possible 5++), but you should also invest in a SO Shaman then, with the Head, so it's getting expensive, you can be tempted out of the battlefield and you have no access to magic standars - common Orcs are good too.

The number of additional attacks all depend on how wide he will be running them. Honestly which one you take should be determined by what role you want them to fulfill. Are they your bunker? Yes? Take HW/S and run them in a bus formation (5 wide with a bunch of ranks). Are they one of your hard hitting combat units? Yes? Take Savage Orcs instead, run them 10 wide and give them the extra choppa. I just dont personally ever see a point other than to adhere to a theme to ever take regular orc boyz with extra choppas.

5) I don't think you should split the Gobbos, although it's a popular way of running them. You'd lose your only real tarpit unit. But it's true, they won't shoot as much as you would like them too. As long as you have other shooters (and the warmachines fill that, I feel), you should be better off with hand weapons and shields. Also, Fantics help.

I agree, the gobbos need to either be in a bus formation (5 wide with a bunch of ranks) with HW/S or 10x2 with bows.

6) Banner of Eternal Flame would be good here. Remember it negates Regeneration, but also causes Fear in cavalry etc.

I am more of a fan of the banner of discipline if he is putting his general in that block.

7) I'm not sure about all the Chukkas, I'd drop two, but don't have experience with them, so it's really what you like.

Looks like a solid base, minor tweaking and you could rock.
 

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Don't ever take 40 Big 'Uns as a bunker, it's pretty pointless. If you want a bunker, you take a NG unit with bows. Orcs not only cost twice as much, but also perform worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the replies people.

[MENTION=29602]Keetoowah[/MENTION]: The lords come to exactly 500 Points. All the point values are legal and I do have at least 500 points of core units. Pots of toughness are noted but are you sure I can't have magic armor and magic shield on the same character? That's a stupid rule and I didn't see it in the rulebook. Also spear chukkas have BS 3 and I need them to kill off hydras. You sure I should drop them? All your other points are noted thank you so much I will revise.

@ Miko: All points noted and thank you very much. Where should I put my heroes & lords?? :(

Thank you all so much will be revising the list and posting shortly.
 

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Thanks for the replies people.

[MENTION=29602]Keetoowah[/MENTION]: The lords come to exactly 500 Points. All the point values are legal and I do have at least 500 points of core units. Pots of toughness are noted but are you sure I can't have magic armor and magic shield on the same character? That's a stupid rule and I didn't see it in the rulebook. Also spear chukkas have BS 3 and I need them to kill off hydras. You sure I should drop them? All your other points are noted thank you so much I will revise.

@ Miko: All points noted and thank you very much. Where should I put my heroes & lords?? :(

Thank you all so much will be revising the list and posting shortly.
The spear chukkas are on a personally preference. They work for some people for others they dont. Try them and see how you like them. I dont understand the magic armor and magic shield thing either but page 172 in the rulebook under the balance of power section it states that "Each model can only carry one of each type of magic item."
 

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If you want to take Standard of Discipline, put your General there. Besides that, I don't think there's much of a difference, if you keep them close to each other. If you have your Black Orc BSB, it might make more sense to put him with the Big 'Uns, so that Quell Animosity actually works.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
revised list with question

HeLlO!!!

Thanks so much for all the help guys. Apologies for taking so long... existence and all. In any case, here is my revised list. Let me know if theres anything you would change.


Lords - 403

Orc Warboss *GENERAL* - 203
- AoD
- Shield
- Dragonbane Gem
- Toughness Pot
- Shrieking Blade (I dunno lol)

Night Goblin Great Shaman - 200
- Level 4
- Dispel Scroll


Heroes - 130

Orc Big Boss *BSB* - 130
- Tali of Pres
- Charmed Shield


Core - 579

38 Orc Big Uns - 362
- 2x Choppas
- Flag
- Musician

49 Night Goblins - 157 (still not too sure what to give these guys lol)
- Musician
- Short Bows

6 Goblin Wolf Riders - **

Special - 578

29 Black Orcs - 368
- Flag
- Musician

6 Trolls - ***

Rare - 310

Goblin Doom Diver

Rock Lobber

Rock Lobber

Pump Wagon - 60
- Spiky Rollers


I also have a question. Im dying to put my Warboss on a wyvern. Is this viable for a competitive list? What should I drop for it? Does the wyvern get the ward save from AoD as well?


Thanks so much all!
 

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HeLlO!!!

Thanks so much for all the help guys. Apologies for taking so long... existence and all. In any case, here is my revised list. Let me know if theres anything you would change.


Lords - 403

Orc Warboss *GENERAL* - 203
- AoD
- Shield
- Dragonbane Gem
- Toughness Pot
- Shrieking Blade (I dunno lol)

The Shrieking blade is ok but fear, to be honest, isn't scary (see what I did there?). I'd either give him a Great weapon so he can smash stuff with Str7/8 or go for one of the other cheaper magic weapons. The Golden Sigil Sword is cool as it stops people getting re-rolls from ASF on him (good against Vampires) and you get the smack down on people first unless they have ASF.


49 Night Goblins - 157 (still not too sure what to give these guys lol)
- Musician
- Short Bows

Add a Banner. It will help in blood and glory missions. Short bows are pretty crap due to the low range and how are you going to deploy this unit anyway? 10x5? That's a lot of Goblins not shooting in the ranks behind the 2nd. You could split the unit into 2 units of 20 and get more shots. Or, you could give them shields and have them march up the table with your Orcs. Chuck in a Fanatic and/or nets and you're good to go.

6 Goblin Wolf Riders - **

Add Spears and a Musician.

Special - 578

29 Black Orcs - 368
- Flag
- Musician

Add the Banner of Flame maybe? Something to take out regenerating monsters and units is always a good bet.


I also have a question. Im dying to put my Warboss on a Wyvern. Is this viable for a competitive list? What should I drop for it? Does the wyvern get the ward save from AoD as well?

If you want to grab a Wyvern then you need to go pretty monster heavy. Wyverns aren't that tough in terms of other monsters so die pretty quickly if your opponent wants to take them out. So, distract your opponent with other big stuff. An arachnarok is great for attracting cannon balls and so are giants. Basically go for a 'monster mash' list.


Thanks so much all!
:)
 

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all the points Borak mentions are good, but you will need to find points for all the extra stuff. If you drop the wolf riders from 6 to 5 thats enough points to add the musician :D

The night goblins don't suffer too much if you remove 4 to add the banner. i think the banner is of more value than the few extra goblins.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
[MENTION=10524]Borak[/MENTION]: Totally agree thanks!!! Gonna redo the lords equipment. Might even go for anti heroes... that thing is gonna rock! Yeah I might run the night gobbos as a forward unit. Why a muse on the wolfies? Yeah I dont have an arach and I gave my giant to the beastman player to use... that horrid army needs all the help they can get... Poor furry bastards. Reminds me of Garbad The Weak from Diablo 1... lol. I think I'll just stick with the Lord on foot. Perhaps demote the wizzy to a level 3... Or perhaps a gobbo warboss with the wizzy hat?

[MENTION=34534]Digger[/MENTION]: Good call I'll definitely do that.

Thanks a bunch everyone!
 

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Why a muse on the wolfies?
If/When you flee from an enemy charge you'll get +1 to rally. This helps the whole 'feigned flight' from the Fast cav rules. Basically the Musician helps the fast cav do what they're designed to do - Be annoying.

Or perhaps a gobbo warboss with the wizzy hat?
This is actually a pretty good addition. I've got one in my 2k list and he's now a permanent part of the list. Petty much every sig spell of the 8 Lores of magic helps us out in a way that we wouldn't be able to do otherwise.


Beast magic. Wildform is great. giving any of our hammers +1 str and Toughness is great (Trolls are disgusting). The character buffs are great as well and the Bolt thrower spell is handy. Turning your goblin into a dragon is gimmicky but funny :D

Shadow: Mainly looking as the sig spell here. Miasma REALLY helps us out. The thing we suffer from as an army is low WS and low Initiative. Miasma can knock both the enemies WS & I down by D3. Making Dwarves or Chaos warriors WS2 or 3 makes them much easier to kill with Trolls/Big'uns. The other spells are just icing on the cake really.

Metal: Not sure about you but I hate heavy armour. As an army we have shed loads of str5 but anything higher is hard to come by. So anything like Monstrous Cavalry are a right git to deal with. The Sig spell of this lore covered that base well enough!! We also suffer from having no units to really deal with Ethereal opponents. This can be sorted out by the 'Enchanted Blades' spell.

Life: This is great. A 5+ Regen save on a unit of Big'uns? Erm, OK! Or How about Toughness 6 Orcs or Trolls with stone to flesh? Sounds good? Does to me!


.......... and that's only half the Lores. The better half admittedly but there's still some good combinations out there. Hell, cast 'itchy nuisance' on an enemy unit (lower init by D6), then cast Pit of shades (initiative test or die) on them..... Scary. However, I would take the Wizards hat guy as a 'support' wizard. I'd still get a LVL4 in there as well. Just do you're getting +4 to dispel and he can do the main muscle work of your own casting phase.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Ok so I have a report from my first game. Against the daemons of course, whom I still believe are completely overpowered even with all their nurfs from the new book. In any case, it was an interesting match. I kind of went against a few things that you guys told me, some were for the better, some were for the worse. First and foremost I dont know why everyone raves about goblins so much, orcs last way longer and are way more clutch in combat. Gobbos cant do sh_t in combat and the 3 points for ranks doesn't make up for their bullocks combat skills. Not to mention that extra point of leadership could have have saved me a few times. In any case, this is the list I used.

Lord

Orc Warboss
- AoD
- sword of anti heroes
- Dragonbane Gem
- Other Tricksters Shard
- Wyvern (sorry borak lol, I really wanted him)
- shield

heroes

orc bb (bsb)
- tali of pres
- charmed shield

night goblin shaman (shameful level 1)
- dispel scroll

core

38 big uns
- 2x choppas
- muse
- scarecrow banner (wanted to negate terror from thirster)

40 night gobbos
- muse
- flag
- spears & shields

special

29 Black Orcs
- flag
- muse
- flame banner

10 Boar Boys (I couldnt get my trolls painted on time, and because the gen was on a wyvern I knew he couldnt babysit the trolls anyway... I think this was the better choice considering gen would be off doing his own thing)
- flag
- muse

rare

2x lobbers
doom diver
pump wagon

Enemy

Thirster
Herald of Khorne
35 letters (full command)
2X 6 Flamers
Soul Grinder
6 Furies

Alright heres what happened. Because of my horrible deployment skills the boar boys and the pump wagon got shredded by flamers right off the bat. Flamers were running with a soul grinder. 3 boars survived. Gen calls a WAAAGH! and charges bloodletters with a herald of khorne. 3 remaining boars and 40 gobbos lead by useless wizard charge soul grinder. Soul grinder gets massacred first turn and 3 boars and gobbos overrun. General calls a challenge and is met by a bloodletter champion. Champion is sent reeling and gen wins combat. Few bloodletters out of 35 die from instability. By this point wyvern is dead from a combo of flamers and hit from champion. Warboss stands alone but is still doing great on his own.

Thirster is flying aimlessly like a moron because i have big uns and black orcs set up to rear charge him if he charged warboss. Warboss calls another challenge and is met with herald of khorne. Herald gets a beating and is killed outright doing nothing to gen's 4+ ward save. Sword of anti heroes and daemons poor toughness is helping alot. Gobbos turn around and charge the flamers that shot down the boars, last boar is killed right before the charge. Some stupid winds of magic is rolled and my shaman gets blown up and replaced by a herald of khorne which charges the gobbos.

Artillers is doing d_ck all this entire game. Had a couple of direct lobber hits on the thirster but my sh_tty rolls prevailed and nothing happened. Diver hit on target every time but did minimal damage. I'll be dropping it next list if it doesnt pick up against non rigged armies. Artillery ended up getting shredded by furies who later flanked the gobbos having a hundred years war against the flamers and my shammy turned herald.

Thirster finally grows some balls and rear charges my general. At this point black orcs and general are fighting letters head on. Thirster is beating at my general's back, and big uns are flanking thirster. Its the beginning of round 3 at this point and the gobbo and general wars lasts the rest of the game. For some reason and I have no idea how the 40 gobbos lost against the 6 f_cking flamers and the herald... 15 attacks wasnt cutting it :(. Mostly bad rolls on my part. They ended up fleeing. Thirster eventually killed my general after a few good turns of battle and great random gift rolls. After general and bsb in black orc unit were killed the untouched unit of 38 big uns fled and didnt rally fast enough to do any damage, not like they could have against the remaining 15 or so letters led by a thirster and the second untouched unit of flamers closing in. Black orcs lasted right down to the wire and never fled once, stayed till every last one of them was dead. They did great. If it werent for the thirster they would have crushed the letters.

In the end I had a full unit of big uns. My gobbos were plentiful but running.

He had his thirster, 15 or so letters. 1 untouched unit of flamers, 1 down to 2 from the gobbos. And furies untouched.

What do you guys think? Could I have won this match? Was it dice rolls or did I seriously screw up on something?

Thanks everyone for the amazing advice :)

- Robby
 

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Well, the problem with the Gobs is this:
Of course they don't win fights. Of course the will run away. But from the sound of it, they fled after 2 or 3 turns, so they did their job. They really need some killy unit to help them out (even a Pump Wagon will do against Flamers or something squishy, or a Chariot). They can hold for a time, until you line up supporting charges.
Orcs are more durable, of course, but if they're not Big 'Uns, they are similarly lethal: not at all. They can last a turn or two longer. So, if you have two units serving the same purpose, take the cheaper one. When buffed with Netters (essentially giving them +1 Toughness most of the time), sword&board (6+ Ward most of the time) and Fanatics (not a huge Fan... well, that was bad), NG can be even more durable than Orcs (if you don't forget to keep your General close).
If you want to break this annoying Skaven unit that stands in the way to your opponent's flank or his artillery and level 4 General, your Black Orcs can kill them by the dozen, but the rats will stand, because they are Steadfast. Now, if you had your 8-rank deep NG unit at hand, they won't be Steadfast for long. For 200 points, you can't get an 8-rank deep unit of Orcs. Besides, they would take more space, so they are hit by more troops and less of your BO can be in contact with the enemy.
To find the compromise, I often run my Big 'Uns 6x5. That way they can punch out quite a lot of attacks and they still have decent ranks. But you can only have one unit of them, and the other being Black Orcs, if you want another unit, you need NG or Orc Boyz.

The shaman can do nothing if he's only level 1, your opponent throws all his Dispel dice at this one spell. He's there just to pull out the Dispel Scroll in the most important moment. He's good at that, but don't expect him to do anything else.

Shame you couldn't really try out the Boars and the Wagon, they're not gonna die turn 1 every game, so next time tell us all about it.

Did you like the Wyvern? It's tempting and fun, but I guess you see the downside - you could use the Ld bubble for your Goblins.

Artillery is often frustrating, but it can be game-changing sometimes. I don't take it too often, but in my area O&G are considered one of the shooty armies, just behind Empire and Dwarves.

Black Orcs are amazing, I love this unit immensely (in fact I think it's my favourite unit in the army, always doing the most and always paying off - right behind Wold Riders, which I just can't not love, no matter what).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, the problem with the Gobs is this:
Of course they don't win fights. Of course the will run away. But from the sound of it, they fled after 2 or 3 turns, so they did their job. They really need some killy unit to help them out (even a Pump Wagon will do against Flamers or something squishy, or a Chariot). They can hold for a time, until you line up supporting charges.
Orcs are more durable, of course, but if they're not Big 'Uns, they are similarly lethal: not at all. They can last a turn or two longer. So, if you have two units serving the same purpose, take the cheaper one. When buffed with Netters (essentially giving them +1 Toughness most of the time), sword&board (6+ Ward most of the time) and Fanatics (not a huge Fan... well, that was bad), NG can be even more durable than Orcs (if you don't forget to keep your General close).
If you want to break this annoying Skaven unit that stands in the way to your opponent's flank or his artillery and level 4 General, your Black Orcs can kill them by the dozen, but the rats will stand, because they are Steadfast. Now, if you had your 8-rank deep NG unit at hand, they won't be Steadfast for long. For 200 points, you can't get an 8-rank deep unit of Orcs. Besides, they would take more space, so they are hit by more troops and less of your BO can be in contact with the enemy.
To find the compromise, I often run my Big 'Uns 6x5. That way they can punch out quite a lot of attacks and they still have decent ranks. But you can only have one unit of them, and the other being Black Orcs, if you want another unit, you need NG or Orc Boyz.

The shaman can do nothing if he's only level 1, your opponent throws all his Dispel dice at this one spell. He's there just to pull out the Dispel Scroll in the most important moment. He's good at that, but don't expect him to do anything else.

Shame you couldn't really try out the Boars and the Wagon, they're not gonna die turn 1 every game, so next time tell us all about it.

Did you like the Wyvern? It's tempting and fun, but I guess you see the downside - you could use the Ld bubble for your Goblins.

Artillery is often frustrating, but it can be game-changing sometimes. I don't take it too often, but in my area O&G are considered one of the shooty armies, just behind Empire and Dwarves.

Black Orcs are amazing, I love this unit immensely (in fact I think it's my favourite unit in the army, always doing the most and always paying off - right behind Wold Riders, which I just can't not love, no matter what).

Hi and thanks for the reply! :)

Yeah I guess that one unit did pay for itself. Took out the soul grinder with only the help of 3 boars... I guess you're right. My biggest problem here had to do with deployment. Would have been nice to still have the wagon longer into the battle.

Shaman got one good poison attack spell off which helped his gobbos kill the grinder. Other than that you're absolutely right. Opponent had no magic so his dispel scroll was for naught.

I LOVED the wyvern. Don't regret using him at all. I essentially sacrificed my wizard being level 4 and a unit of 5 wolfies to bring him in. Inspiring pres helped, the fact that he could escape harm helped, and the fact that he was another powerful hammer for the enemy to deal with also helped. Chances are if my gen was in a unit the thirster would have just ran up and tried to kill him. Unfortunately wyvern didnt do anything in combat... He died before he could get the first hit in which really sucked. That aside though I don't really regret taking him and may do it again.

Yeah artillery was annoying. I rolled off a bunch of times to experiment before the game and killed the bloodthirster like 3 out of 6 times... Unfortunately it never seems to work this way on the battlefield. I'll gauge it in the next games to see if it's really worth 310 points for 3 catapults (2 lobs and 1 DD).

My general's build was pretty kickass. The thirster was the only thing on the table that had any chance of taking him down, and it took him like 3 turns. The other trickster's shard is great against daemons as it forces him to reroll successful ward saves. Just make sure your bsb isnt beside the general.

Black Orcs are worth their weight in SOLID GOLD. Great statline coupled with a CHOICE between double hand weapons and great weapons EVERY TURN makes them possibly the best infantry unit in the game. Point for point definitely the best in the game. 29 of them were kicking the sh_t out of 35 letters before thirster got involved. Coupled with the bsb leading them I had a unit that totally rocked. I cant see how there are so many threads calling their usefulness into question. I wouldnt leave home without them in any game over 1500 points.


So my next game is against empire. I can expect to see a steam tank, 20 crossbowmen, 20 swordsman, 2 cannons, 6 knights, 3 demigryphs, a level 4, battle priest, captain and engineer. Im pretty confident it will be a much easier fight than the daemons, though im worried about all the hardware. Ill post the results this coming week.

Thanks a bunch!
 
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