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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone!!!

Thanks so much again for all your amazing feedback and help. I'm approaching game 2 of my tourney with friends and I'm having some regrets as to how I composed my list. No matter, I'm stuck with it and I'll make do. Experimentation is key!

For the next tourney though I'm in it to win. I wanna make the most cheese ass list in existence that is the most mathematically certain to take all comers (or have the highest chance to). I love the greenies and I wanna see them showing no mercy. I dont want my list to have any holes. I've made a list that looks meaner than holy hell. Don't think any type of list has a sure shot chance to counter it. I need your input as to how you think it will fare and if anything should change.

Keep in mind if you tell me to add something please include what you would take out; thats just as important.

Here we go :D


Lords - 408

Warchief Corthar: Lord of The Clans - Orc Warboss *General* (208)
- Armor of Destiny
- Dragonbane Gem
- Crown of Command
- Great Weapon

Dende: "Lil' Green" - Night Goblin Great Shaman 200
- Level 4
- Dispel Scroll

Heroes - 130

Bogrog The Unbreakable - Orc Big Boss *Battle Standard Bearer* - 130
- Talisman of Preservation
- Charmed Shield

Core - 850

50 Savage Orc Big Uns - 580 (General & BSB go here: they will be stubborn on leadership 9 with frenzy and re-rollable psych tests... essentially unbreakable. Alternatively I can field 2 units of 30, 1 big un and 1 reg and drop the wolfies and the wolf chariot and the boar chariot's upgrade, what do you guys think?)
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Musician
- Banner of Eternal Flame (kill hydras)

40 Night Goblins - 140
- Spears
- Shields
- Flag
- Musician

20 Night Goblins (The Namekian goes here to blast things) - 80
- Flag
- Musician
- Short Bows

5 Goblin Wolf Riders (Defend my war machines or run around playing grab ass) - xx

Special - 230 (should I go trolls instead? Honestly I like movieness)

Orc Boar Chariot - 90
- Extra Crewman

Orc Boar Chariot - 90
- Extra Crewman

Goblin Wolf Chariot - xx

Rare - 380

Doom Diver - xx

Rock Lobber - xx

Rock Lobber - xx

Mangler Squigs - xx

Mangler Squigs - xx (I pity the fool that gets hit with both of these... im running them together and they could shred anything. Average roll kills bloodthirster with 2 wounds to spare.)


Total comes to 1998 points. What do you guys think? I believe it has enough bodies to nullify a shooty army and enough support and high damage attacks to shred undead and daemons, the bane of every player group. I gotta find some way to deal with these God damned flamers, I get rocked by them every game.

Any critique would be amazing... Thanks for being awesome.
 

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Lords - 408

Warchief Corthar: Lord of The Clans - Orc Warboss *General* (208)
- Armor of Destiny
- Dragonbane Gem
- Crown of Command
- Great Weapon

Dende: "Lil' Green" - Night Goblin Great Shaman 200
- Level 4
- Dispel Scroll

Heroes - 130

Bogrog The Unbreakable - Orc Big Boss *Battle Standard Bearer* - 130
- Talisman of Preservation
- Charmed Shield

Core - 850

50 Savage Orc Big Uns - 580 (General & BSB go here: they will be stubborn on leadership 9 with frenzy and re-rollable psych tests... essentially unbreakable. Alternatively I can field 2 units of 30, 1 big un and 1 reg and drop the wolfies and the wolf chariot and the boar chariot's upgrade, what do you guys think?)
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Musician
- Banner of Eternal Flame (kill hydras)


Is this going to be a horde? Be careful about being charged by multiple units. Hordes, especially on 25mm bases, are pretty unwieldy. Don't be afraid to reform into a 8x7 or something like that if there's a lot of terrain or your opponent is also running a lot of units that are 5 wide (Empire/Skaven)

40 Night Goblins - 140
- Spears
- Shields
- Flag
- Musician

Ditch the Spears for hand weapons. 5 Additional Ws2 str3 attacks isn't helping them do what they're there to do. Ie: be a tarpit.

20 Night Goblins (The Namekian goes here to blast things) - 80
- Flag
- Musician
- Short Bows

I might add a Fanatic to this unit. Just in case something nasty comes their way like a Daemon Prince.

5 Goblin Wolf Riders (Defend my war machines or run around playing grab ass) - xx
Give them spears. They're a bit useless other wise.

Special - 230 (should I go trolls instead? Honestly I like movieness)

Orc Boar Chariot - 90
- Extra Crewman

Orc Boar Chariot - 90
- Extra Crewman

You could quite happily ditch these and take 2 units of 2 Wolf Chariots. Gobbo chariots are soft as hell but they kick out just as much pain as an Orc Chariot and you'll have two hitting combat rather than just one! Just think of them like controllable Mangler. There to deal mass pain but are expendable.

Goblin Wolf Chariot - xx

Rare - 380

Doom Diver - xx

Rock Lobber - xx

Rock Lobber - xx

Mangler Squigs - xx

Mangler Squigs - xx (I pity the fool that gets hit with both of these... im running them together and they could shred anything. Average roll kills bloodthirster with 2 wounds to spare.)


Sounds good. Lack of control scares me a little though. While they're under your control they're good but once they hit a target they're just as dangerous to you as they are to your opponent. With expensive things like Big'uns and chariots you might regret taking them. Also, a clever opponent will charge them with something expendable (like wolves) and kill them off. Watch for chaff coming their way.


Total comes to 1998 points. What do you guys think? I believe it has enough bodies to nullify a shooty army and enough support and high damage attacks to shred undead and daemons, the bane of every player group. I gotta find some way to deal with these God damned flamers, I get rocked by them every game.

Are Flamers flaming or do they have the new Warpflame rule?.
:)
 

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@Lord Borak : Flamers are Warpflame.

@Novos : I second Borak. Additionally - I don't think Sav Big 'Uns can take magic banners, that's the one advantage that common Orcs have. I'd ditch one Mangler and take another Doom Diver. One thing that worries me slightly is that you only have one combat unit and you are going to be taking on everything your enemies have. So, maybe Trolls? And I would seriously look for points for a Sav Orc Shaman with Shrunken Head - you get a 5+ Ward, paying 1 pt per model for that.
 

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Mr Commisar to you
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Ir played against several competitive o&g lists and this looks quite similar to them which is a good thing. Now those savage orcs are good but my black knight bus was laughing in their face when I charged other units that are similar. Having 50 makes a difference but be careful of blender lords and their ilk. I'd watch out for any templates as well. A couple of chimerae could do nasty things to this unit the pair of breath weapons are looking at something like 40 hits which is 15 ish dead. Essentially work to protect it at all costs.

Don't expect mangler squigs to do anything to an experienced opponent as said above van guarding dogs will take them out. Use hand of girl on them if you can it is a good way to get them into that unit that can challenge the biguns.

Just a couple of things I thought when looking at the list.
Hope that helps

A
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You guys are the kings thanks so much for all the help!

[MENTION=30990]Lord Borak[/MENTION]: Im thinking to run the big uns 6 wide x 8 and change bus formation. Maybe a little wider can be good though... I'll experiment with that. I almost never take horde formations, terrain is my worst enemy and it doesn't turn out well. About the n. gobbos, hmmm, I was hoping to have to avoid that cus I have 90 night gobbos, 70 with spears and shields and 20 with bows :(. I guess I'll proxy. I'm not into fanatics but I'll try it out. Gotta find some room for it though. 2 boar chariots for 4 wolf chariots is an extra 20 points; any idea as to how I should make room? Or maybe I should just do a unit of trolls... They have better longevity, more attacks and might be a better choice against undead and daemons by virtue of the fact that they can survive after the charge... I'll roll it off to see. I'll try to give wolfies spears. ANd wait are you saying that flamers no longer have flaming attacks? I thought the warpflame was just something that happens after someone gets hit by them.

[MENTION=85163]Miko de Adamyetz[/MENTION]: That sucks about the banners I gotta check that out. I guess I'll just have to put up with regen. I think the manglers can do more damage than a doom diver to be perfectly honest, and for less points. Plus I can move them and don't have to worry about sight and what not. Though I'll experiment both ways. Ill try to see If I can rework for that savage shaman that sounds awesome but I dont think I will be able to. The one big unit scares me too maybe I should go with my 2 units of 30 idea? Perhaps maybe the one of 50 and trolls will help.

[MENTION=16815]Commisarlestat[/MENTION]: Yeah blenders are a pain but I hopelessly outnumber every other army so I dont think I'm gonna get surrounded too mercilessly. Got lots of chariots and artillery and manglers for that. No chaos warrior players in my group so thats a plus.

@All: Not worried about the manglers. Im the only O&G player in my group and nobody will know what the hell they are so at least for the next tourney I think I'll be ok. And honestly who has an expendable quick unit thats less than 65 points? No yeoman cus I'll be the only bret player soon and our resident empire player doesnt use gunslingers. Let the delves send their 100 point unit of dark riders to them... he'll regret it more than me. Only thing Im worried about is our vamp counts player sending ethereals to it... that would suck. And of course them getting shot down but then at least its a low point unit that ate the buckshot.

I'll repost a new list taking all advice sometime this week thanks everyone!!!

- Robby
 

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2 boar chariots for 4 wolf chariots is an extra 20 points; any idea as to how I should make room?
If you're running your Big'uns with loads of ranks you don't need the Crown of Command. You should quite happily be steadfast. I ran pretty much the same build with a unit of 7x6 Big'uns and I hardly ever need to the crown to be stubborn. If you feel like you need it them keep it but it could probably go.


Or maybe I should just do a unit of trolls... They have better longevity, more attacks and might be a better choice against undead and daemons by virtue of the fact that they can survive after the charge...
Trolls kick Undead butt. They smash their way through Skellies and Zombies like no ones business. Just keep them away from Ethereal units. They don't have the static Combat Res to deal with them.

are you saying that flamers no longer have flaming attacks? I thought the warpflame was just something that happens after someone gets hit by them.
If Warpflame is the same as the Warpflame in the WoC book (which I'm 99% sure it is) then Warp Flame is no longer Flaming. Basically it makes you take a toughness test. If you fail you take D3 wounds. If you pass you get +1 Regen save. They'd be stupiid to target trolls with it unless they had something with actual flaming attacks nearby to deal with a unit of 3+ Regen Trolls of Doom.
 

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Mr Commisar to you
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I'm with borak hexwraiths would mullah the trolls but they are hard for the rest of normal undead. Warpflame is as far as I know as borak says. The lores are pretty much identical across both books. I'd check their unit entry thought as they may have flaming listed there.

A
 

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i am da Wahhchief
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2,419 Posts
I'm going to vote for the savage shaman with shrunken head. I also think if you bring that, 50 savages is way too many.
a horde of 40 with the extra big ward save is without contest our most cheesy unit.
finding the points for a savage shaman, might be a bit tricky now, it may force you to rebuild the whole list.


you have a lot of small units, which can be effective, but it's worth having a look at each unit and how this small unit style affects them.

- A fanatic is a bit risky here, because on release, it becomes uncontrollable. the damage it does is too big for several of your units who might get hit. I wouldn't bring them in a list like this.
- I like bringing night goblins. sometimes I bring a unit of 20 like yours. I would remove the unit though. they only seem to serve a purpose in a flank of your army and all units near them are 1-hit kills (nearby gobbos take panic test when Manglers are stepped on or cannonballed, or when a chariot is killed, ). these goblins will run away at the first opportunity they get. however, if you're using it as a bunker for characters behind the savages, then never mind this whole text xD

--------------------------------------------------------

On another note, here are some thoughts on going cheesy: If you go for an orc savage shaman list, I suggest a big overhaul of your entire list:

Orc magic is best served as a big caster, with a bit of goblin support.
1. This shaman has to be durable, because he will hit the front line of combat. A small orc caster would not be able to buy both the shrunken head and the Fencer's Blades (This is a must have combo)
2. We're not a big fan of Orc magic here, but some spells are really good. Getting a lor makes sure you get either Foot of Gork, or Hand of Mork.
3. a night goblin hero caster is a nice support and some of these spells are very well combined with the rest of the army. leaving this one out might not hurt too much though.

If you have a Savage big unit, then either bring another combat unit, such as the 6-8 Trolls already mentioned, or you can focus more on the gunline tactic you started out with the twin lobber+ doomdiver. or even both if you can find points.
If you add 3 Spear Chukkas, and a second Doom Diver, your gunline will be affordable and cheesy as hell.

You would have to ditch the Boar Chariots and the small Goblin unit and maybe even the Wolf Riders and a Mangler to get these points together, but most of those units are not really needed when your guns take out scary stuff and your savages+ 1 or 2 wolf chariots take out whatever comes near your line.

this list would look something like:

Your general, without crown of command
Your BSB

A savage shaman lord, shrunken head, fencers blade

40 Savage Orc Biguns, dual choppas banner musician

2 wolf chariots
3 spear chukkas

2 doom divers
2 lobbers
Mangler Squig

whatever is left can go into,
- another mangler,
- 40 goblins with netters anvil
- wolf riders with spear.
- Trolls, 6. 8 is even better!

thats what i call cheese

i would do the math for the points totals but im an hour late for work xD bye
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Wow great replies!!!

Can't thank you gents enough... You're really helping me out here. Before I go on I've confirmed that Flamers no longer have flaming attacks, and that the warpflame roll occurs after damage has been resolved. Plus they get a further -1 because of multiple shots... wooo!!!!! My opponent that beat me the other day wasn't playign with it.

[MENTION=30990]Lord Borak[/MENTION]: Yeah I'm gonna drop that shiny hat that makes us fighty longer and invest it elsewhere and also put in a hefty unit of trolls... woo!!!

[MENTION=16815]Commisarlestat[/MENTION]: Yeah totally agree the one thing about this list is I have little answer to ethereals. Hopefully I'll get the charge off with the gobbo unit.

@Digger : Great advice!!!! I reworked my list based on your comment. I completely forgot about the LSH and I've been dying to use that new Wurrzag on foot model... 2 birds with one stone :D:D WOnder if I can find 35 points to make warboss a savage orc too simply for fluff content. Think it's worth it?

New list is as follows;


Lords - 461

*General* Warchief Corthar: Lord of The Clans - Orc Warboss - 171
- Armor of Destiny
- Great Weapon

Samdi: Grand Prophet of The Clans - Savage Orc Great Shaman - 290
- Lucky Shrunken Head
- Fencer's Blades
- Level 4

Heroes - 130

*BSB* Bogrog the Unbreakable - Orc Big Boss - 130

Core - 603

40 Savage Orc Big Uns (6x7: all characters go here) - 460
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Muse

41 Night Gobbos (5x8) - 143 (Thought these guys would be better than wolfies, any thoughts?)
- Hand Weapons & Shields
- Flag
- Muse

Special - 345

2 Wolf Chariots - ***

7 Trolls - ***

Rare - 460

2 Rock Lobbers - ***

2 Doom Divers - ***

2 Mangler Squigs - *** (I honestly think the 2 manglers are WAY more potent than 3 ballistas; what say you? These things are like a moving gunline. I could drop them and put the 3 chukkas and 1 troll.)


I'm REALLY LIKING THIS LIST and I can't wait to see it on the battlefield. Enemies will TREMBLE! I also think I may be the only one that LOVES Orc magic even more so than gobbo... its gonna be great to get the incredible hulk spell off on my mage XD

Problems I'm seeing:

- Sword of anti heroes on 3 character Savage Orc Deathstar
- Purple Sun of Xereus on Savage Orc Deathstar, I have no scroll and that cheap ass spell doesn't allow saves.
- Should I give shammy a 15 point obsidian ammy to give Deathstar 4+ ward vs magic?
- Is artillery all it's cracked up to be? I know in theory the damage it does is off the charts but for some reason on the field its always a different story. Im gonna have to work on my deployment skills. Alternatively I can break out a 25 strong unit of blorks w/ banner of eternal flame in place of artillery... It will take some major attention off of deathstar, and its another unit that can benefit from WAAAGH! I just feel that if death star gets overwhelmed like commi mentioned my game is over... What say you guys?

Can't tell you how amazing you've all been; cant wait to tear it up next tourney. Gotta finish this one first though... Slaying Empire tomorrow :D
 

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i am da Wahhchief
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"Is artillery all it's cracked up to be? I know in theory the damage it does is off the charts but for some reason on the field its always a different story
Alternatively I can break out a 25 strong unit of blorks w/ banner of eternal flame in place of artillery... It will take some major attention off of deathstar, and its another unit that can benefit from WAAAGH! I just feel that if death star gets overwhelmed like commi mentioned my game is over... What say you guys?
" -Novos

You're gonna have to figure that one out in the field :p
Artillery does something though that Blorcs cannot do:
- when you have an artillery line you're forcing the enemy to come to you, giving your savages something to feed on.
Just imagine facing a guy with 4 catapults, there's no way in hell that you are gonna postpone the fight for long, there's no time to outmaneuver them with all the rocks flying. If you replace the artillery with blorcs, your core will be 2x 4" movement monster units, who might win you any battle, but the enemy has little reason to rush in and start a fair fight. these guns are simply a little motivation for your opponent to do the right thing. A little nudge into the right direction so to speak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
You're gonna have to figure that one out in the field :p
Artillery does something though that Blorcs cannot do:
- when you have an artillery line you're forcing the enemy to come to you, giving your savages something to feed on.
Just imagine facing a guy with 4 catapults, there's no way in hell that you are gonna postpone the fight for long, there's no time to outmaneuver them with all the rocks flying. If you replace the artillery with blorcs, your core will be 2x 4" movement monster units, who might win you any battle, but the enemy has little reason to rush in and start a fair fight. these guns are simply a little motivation for your opponent to do the right thing. A little nudge into the right direction so to speak.
Totally agree and it appears I have. Had my second tourney game against the empire. Doom Diver took out a full unit of knights and almost hit the steam tank once or twice. Paid for its points at least twice over. Lobbers didnt do dick on a stick. The one in 6 chance to roll a hit is too low. I did about 3 times with 2 lobbers, twice it was a hit and misfire at the same time; so misfire. And once I failed the 2+ roll to wound the god damned steam tank. Pissed me off all over the place because the same thing happened last game against daemons. The one roll I managed to hit all game was against the thirster... failed the 2+ roll to wound and who's to say he wouldn't have ward saved it even if I didn't. Im dropping all artillery from my list... It doesn't win games.

The secret in my opinion is to maximize high strength dice rolls, and manglers do it way better than any artillery and aren't subject to terrain and line of site by virtue of the fact that they can move. If anything I'll put the divers back in. Unless you have trebuchets the chances of lobbers paying for their points is not high enough for a competitive list.

New list is as follows. I may replace 2 wolfies wih 1 boar chariot and put in another blorc.



Lords - 461

*General* Warchief Corthar: Lord of The Clans - Orc Warboss - 171
- Armor of Destiny
- Great Weapon

Samdi: Grand Prophet of The Clans - Savage Orc Great Shaman - 290
- Lucky Shrunken Head
- Fencer's Blades
- Level 4

Heroes - 130

*BSB* Bogrog the Unbreakable - Orc Big Boss - 130
- Tali of Pres
- Charmed Shield

Core - 603

40 Savage Orc Big Uns (6x7) - 460
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Muse

41 Night Gobbos - Hand Weapons & Shields
- Flag
- Muse

Special - 676

2 Wolf Chariots - ***

8 Trolls - ***

23 Black Orcs - 296
- Flag
- Musician

Rare - 130

2 Mangler Squigs - ***
 

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I don't get it. First you say how unlucky you were with the Lobba, listing all the ones you rolled and then you say they're useless. You had some bad luck, you will have better next time. A chance to hit is 1:3, last game I hit every turn. Of course, it's up to you, but I'd give them another try. Two manglers are powerful, but are harder to control, easier to counter absurdy a skilled opponent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not useless by a longshot... Others experiences may differ. However, the 1 in 3 chance to hit what I want not taking into account if I misfire at the same time, roll a one to wound, roll 1 wound, or get ward saved is nowhere near good enough for a competitive list. If I was running all goblins it would be a different story... but Im in with orcs so it is what it is. You may take out that bloodthirster or carnosaur with a lobber, but once or twice per game is garbage... I can probably field something better for the points.

Thanks again for all the help!!!
- Robby
 

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i am da Wahhchief
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alright, then it's a good list :p

I have tried the 8 Trolls now and see the difference with a 6 trolls unit, to me the number 8 seems very good right now.
2 wolf chariots is also optimal.
23 black orcs seems a bit of a rough number, you could drop one out to add flaming banner (if you face Trolls or Hydra's alot), or movement banner if you want these guys to flank. if they flank i'd suggest to go 5 wide, not 6. it's harder to maneuver them 6 wideand not all would get into base contact of a flank. If you downgrade the unit to something like 16 Blorcs, then you can find points to add 5 Wolf Riders, or a hero+wolf+spear. Those can help put pressure on opponents warmachines etc.

I'm not sure if you can afford to go without a Doom Diver, but maybe next battle you can use the Manglers and just think 'if i had a DD instead of this one mangler, what would he be shooting at and compare it with the mangler's effectiveness'
 

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Crap, I just read my last post and what a mess my phone did with that!

Right, I'd say Lobbas are competitive. There's a good chance you won't kill anything with a shot, but that's why you have two of them. They're also good against large blocks of infantry, chariots and so on. But yeah, I'll agree two manglers are scary. still, I'd take a Doom Diver as Digger says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[MENTION=34534]Digger[/MENTION]
[MENTION=85163]Miko de Adamyetz[/MENTION]

You guys are right. Perhaps I've been a little too hard on greenskin artillery in light of my poor tournament performance. I've revised the list one last time... I think I got it this time; this looks filthy.


Lords - 476

*General* Warchief Corthar: Lord of The Clans - Orc Warboss - 171
- Armor of Destiny
- Great Weapon

Samdi: Grand Prophet of The Clans - Savage Orc Great Shaman - 305
- Lucky Shrunken Head
- Fencer's Blades
- Level 4
- Obsidian Amulet

Heroes - 232

*BSB* Bogrog the Unbreakable - Orc Big Boss - 130
- Talisman of Preservation
- Charmed Shield

3 Night Goblin Big Bosses - 102
- Great Weapon

Core - 672

40 Savage Orc Big Uns (6x7) - 460
- 2X Choppas
- Flag
- Muse

39 Night Gobbos - Hand Weapons & Shields - 157
- Flag
- Muse
- Netters

5 Wolf Riders - 55
- Spears

Special - 330

1 Wolf Chariot - **

8 Trolls - ***

Rare - 290

2 Mangler Squigs - ***

2 Doom Divers - ***

Totals 2000 on the dot. Im thinking maybe dropping 2 night goblins to possibly put shields on the wolf riders. I opted to drop the black orcs. They're awesome but even with their armor they die way too fast for my liking... and everyone seems to target them. With the artillery and the manglers to smash through some tougher enemies I think I'm ok if they take a break. I also employed 3 night gobbo big bosses to turn my night goblin unit into a total grinder, Between the 3 of them alone thats 9 WS 4 S6 attacks... Netters will ensure weak strike backs. Riders and chariot will hunt machines and wizzies, savage orc death star and night gobbos will charge the middle, trolls will be on other side of the savages.
 
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