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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
okay so after about 8 months of not playing warhammer the local hobby shop decided to hold a competition in a few weeks. i have enough units to field a full army yet i have extra money left over and decided to revamp my old list to optimize it as compared to just using the units i have. As far as i know i will mainly be playing Tau, chaos, possibly a daemon list and then whatever else they throw at me. Ill be the most experienced player there but I'm rusty and Eldar are not the most forgiving army when you make a tactical error. The competition is mainly friends and acquantainces so we all agreed that say if an army was 2020 points then you simply allow your opponent to take upgrades to match your 2020. Just try to keep it as close to 2000 as possible. Anyways i've come up with a few lists and these seemed like the best ideas to me. I wanted to try Eldrad out and the autarch seemed possible but i also have an Avatar of Khaine already built so its really up for grabs. Please give any and all advice you can think of and there are no units off limits for this except that i only have 3 shining spears and no bikes so no massive amounts of bikes.

HQ

Eldrad Ulthran-210
Seer council-145
-4 warlocks
-1 enhance
-3 destructors

Elites

6 Fire dragons w/ falcon - 211
or
6 Fire dragons -206
-exarch w/ firepike(flamer?)
-waveserpent any thoughts here???????

10 striking scorpions-197
-exarch
-biting blade
-shadowstrike

Troops

10 Dire Avengers-167
-exarch
-dual catapult????
-bladestorm
-defend

10 Dire Avengers-167
-same as above

Wave serpent-115
-TL scatter lasers

Wave serpent-115
-TL scatter lasers

5 Rangers-120
-pathfinders

Fast Attack

6 warp spiders-169
-exarch
-2nd deathspinner
-powerblades
-surprise assault

for fast attack i also have 6 swooping hawk models? or i could get a full 5 shining spears? ive never used vypers but not against them really. my fast attack have never done much for me before they tend to get blown away after killing a vehicle or a squad.

Heavy Support

Wraithlord-155
-2 flamers 2 shuriken catapults or 1:1???
-bright lance
-eldar missile launcher

perhaps give him the sword if im fighting orks or blood angels etc or a scatter laser. his wargear may vary upon opponent

Fire prism-115

2nd fire prism-115

may trade for night spinner. i have one tank magnetized with both parts.

Total: 1996with the cheaper FDs*** to make up for the 4 points make a warlock a spiritseer total now 2002

The other list basically has me trade in the FDs wave serpent for 90 points. and then dropping either one of the Scatter lasers on the one WaveSerpent for 25 more points or one of the warlocks and a destructor for 35pts more. either way i end up with enough points for either.
-Avatar of Khaine-115
or
-Autarch-115
-Jump pack
-mandiblasters
-chainsword
-deathspinner???
-pair him with the warp spiders.

Remember i need input here and everyones opinion will be extremely helpful. thanks a ton to all viewers and repliers.

Sincerely, an Autarch coming out of retirement
 

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Greetings AutarchThurmond,

The basics of your list is not bad, but needs some adjustments. Our codex is past its best before date but can still pack a punch when used right. Unlike the primative and barbaric races of Orks and Tryanids we lack sufficent numbers, and unlike Space Marines we are not tough enough, to foot slog across the field. We also need to preserve the precious lives of our dying race. So Transport is vital. Every unit that can take a wave serpent should take a wave serpent. For a 2000 point list I would say you should have at least 5-6 transports on the field.
Our Wave Serpents are fairly difficult to kill with out focused fire from our enemies anti-tank weaponry. Every ten S8 (or Higher Doesn't matter thanks to our shields) on average Space Marines will hit with 7 shots and half of them will fail to even glance our transports. so if we say 3 shots manage to affect our transports 1 will glance and 2 will penetrate. the two penetrating shots will have a 1/3 chance to wreck our vehicles and the glance will in worst case senario immobilise them with a 1/6 chance. Thats a lot of fire power needed to down 6 vehicles. Not to forget our 4+ coversave when moving flat-out.

Now that I've shown you how great our transports are let me show you an idea of how I think the list should look like.

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

4 Warlocks - 145
1 enchance, 3 destructors
Wave Serpent - 125
Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones

10 Striking Scorpions - 197
Exarch with biting blade and shadow strike
Wave Serpent - 125 (Can out-flank with Scorpions)
Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones

10 Dire Avengers - 152
Exarch with Blade Storm and Dual Catapults
Wave Serpent - 130
EML, Spirit Stones

10 Dire Avengers - 152
Exarch with Blade Storm and Dual Catapults
Wave Serpent - 130
EML, Spirit Stones

10 Dire Avengers - 152
Exarch with Blade Storm and Dual Catapults
Wave Serpent - 130
EML, Spirit Stones

5 Pathfinders - 120

Fire Prism - 115

Fire Prism - 115

This list gives you 5 transports and 2 tanks, that a lot for your opponent to compete with. I've removed the Fire Dragons because points didn't allow for both the seers council and Fire Dragons to have transports. I've also given you an extra troops choice as 2/3 games that you play will objective based. Now One thing I would suggest is that since you have a lack of meltas you could ditch a Dire Avenger from each squad and possibly a striking scorpion or two to upgrade the EMLs to Brigh Lances, you would need 45 points to upgrade all of them. This would allow you to pressure any land raiders from a distance but you lose a bit of range and the option of the EMLs blast option. I would look at possibly swapping the scorpions for banshees to help deal with MEQ armies. Hord is not an issue since you have 3 DA squads and 2 fire Prisms, their large blasts will clear a lot of bodies off the table.

This list is closer to full competitive than semi competitive but still isn't there yet and has a good base for you to change things to suit your tastes. Personally I hate leaving home without a squad of Warwalkers. You could swap out the 4 warlocks for a decent squad of fire Dragons if you think they are a must have or even put the points to some banshees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can't remember the rule right now but could eldrad and his retinue join one of the DA squads in their wave serpent if I cut some men from the squad? Eldrad has independent character. And then I could take the left over points... Lemme check how many that is. 125 - eldrads wave serpent. 3 dire avengers - 36 so 161 points. I could put that to banshees? Or perhaps if the list is mechanized shining spears or vypers? I've never used war walkers perhaps theyd fit. This is all based on if retinues can fit with Eldrad?
 

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The warlock squad is not a retinue. Taking a farseer (Including Eldrad) allows you to take a Warlock squad that does not use an HQ slot. Both Eldrad and the Warlocks are free to go about and do their own thing. The warlocks are a separate squad so eldrad will have to choose what squad he joins, you can't join them both. FYI IF a character is with a retinue, the IC loses the ability to leave the retinue and join other squads till the retinue is killed.

If you remove the Warlocks entirely that gives you 145points to play with. You can take a 7 man banshee squad with exarch 1 power and an executioner and give the warlock wave serpent to them and your sorted.

Outflanking warwalkers are fantastic and can be kitted out to do just about anything. 6 scatter lasers os a personal fave. 24 S6 shots outflanking and getting vehicle side/rear armour. Shining spears and vypers can be fun units but are over priced for what they can do. Since your not going for cometitive it wouldn't hurt to throw a unit in there and see how they play out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've never used banshees how well do they play? I've always preferred the scorpions with more attacks. War walkers seem interesting. Just throw eldrad in with one of the DA squads?
 

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A DA squad would really benfit from Eldrad guiding them and dooming their target. I think I worked it out once that with doom and guide a 10 man squad of Das with bladestorm the exarch with dual catapults will wound 25-27 times out of their 32 shots against marines. Now thats a lot of wounds, I love math hammer.

Banshees are very potent. First round of combat they strike at I10 so nothing will strike before them and they are armed with power weapons so termies and power armour troops are going to be hurt a lot more than if attacked by the scorpions. They are only S3 so having eldrad within 24" to doom their target will really boost their effectiveness. If you take acrobatics (counter attack) the banshees will have the same number of attacks as scorpions when charged so long as you pass the leadership test so Scorpions only have a slight advantage with number of attacks over the banshees. They are also fleet of foot giving them a better chance to assault than scorpions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks a ton. I'll give it a try on my brother in a few days against his tau and see how it goes
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So I think my final plan is gonna be the list you posted above. However pending on the army I face I'll use banshees or scorpions. Banshees for space marines and heavy armor. Or scorpions for orks and tyranids. I might trade the seer council for war walkers. I guess that'll also vary on opponent. What wargear/weapons would you recommend for my walkers then? I've never used any before. And what units would they fight well against? Perhaps I could hammer/anvil by flanking either same side or opposites with the Scorpions and walkers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Confused by rules for the war walkers. If I pay for a heavy weapon do I get two of them? Or can I mix and match? One scatter laser and one bright lance?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So I've made a plan. The above list that you posted Macleod minus the seer council and their wave serpent. Gives 287 points spare okay?

Option 1:
3 war walkers- 240
-3 spirit stones
-3 scatter lasers
-3 bright lances

Give the dire avengers defend-45. Total:1998

Option 2:

8 Howling banshees-160
-exarch
-executioner
-war shout
-acrobatic

Wave Serpent-125
-scatter lasers
-spirit stones

Total: 1998 thoughts???
 

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Confused by rules for the war walkers. If I pay for a heavy weapon do I get two of them? Or can I mix and match? One scatter laser and one bright lance?
With WarWalkers you must purchase two weapons. Its one of the few units that when armed with the same weapon doesn't become twin-linked its just just shoots more shots.

So I've made a plan. The above list that you posted Macleod minus the seer council and their wave serpent. Gives 287 points spare okay?

Option 1:
3 war walkers- 240
-3 spirit stones
-3 scatter lasers
-3 bright lances

Give the dire avengers defend-45. Total:1998

Option 2:

8 Howling banshees-160
-exarch
-executioner
-war shout
-acrobatic

Wave Serpent-125
-scatter lasers
-spirit stones

Total: 1998 thoughts???
Option 1 doesn't know what its doing in my opinion. You have the warwalker squad trying to do two things, anti-tank and anti-infantry, which means its not going to be particularly good at either. Because of their poor BS3 in my experience you need your warwalkers to be completely kitted out to do one job. BLs and EMLs are okayish because they are still S8 shots, but againstst AV14 the EMLS are more or less a waste of time and EMLs have a far better range, also have the option to anti-infantry because of their blast option. I'd decide what you want to do with this unit in all honest and just kit it out all the way for it, the only real medium is an all EML unit. Also drop the spirit stones, if you read the section on vehicle squadrons then you'll find out that while still part of a squadron they treat all stunned results as shaken, which is what the spirit stones do so they won't have any effect till only one of them remains. Also make note that any immobilised results while part of the squadron count as wrecks.

Defend is not really the best way to spend points. If you had a unit with a shimmer shield then you might just have a unit durable enough to last more than one round of combat against units with more than 1 attack. Units with more than 1 attack on their profile tend to have powerweapons (Not always true but generally this is how it turns out.) So if they only have 1 base attack defend is pointless, if they do have powerweapons the units dead anyway so a waste of points.

The second option is nice, it adds extra CC ability to your army but requires you to dedicate you Fire prisms to deal with any AV13+ at which point their still not that reliable. If your not going to be playing any IG or Marines then your safe enough but just keep it in mind that without Fire Dragons you will need a couple of BLS thown in somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I feel like my army quite simply doesn't have enough anti armor... Hmm. I might be fine poppin rhinos and devilish but if a land raider shows up I have literally nothing to kill it with. So bright lances may fare better. However I could take

3 war walkers- 285
6 bright lances
3 spirit stones

But then what happens if a squad comes near them? I'd have to keep them with the scorpions I suppose. Just hope they don't get split up? Or would they be fine against a single squad? I mean against orks I could just give them scatter lasers. Or against space marines the bright lances could still take out half a squad. I suppose I'll use bright lances. Thanks a ton for your help. I just need to buy a ton of wave serpents and some walkers. Hope I can find a job lol thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Will do. Thanks again. Perhaps I'll buy holofields for the fire prisms.
 
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