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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

Take a gander and let me know your thoughts on the effectiveness and comp of the following;

Thx

2000pts Eldar
74 Models

Avatar of Khaine - 155

Farseer - Singing Spear + Guide - 78

5 Scorpions
Scorpion Exarch - Scorpion's Claw + Stalker - 128

7 Harlequins - 3 Kisses
Shadowseer - Veil of Tears, Hallucinogen Grenades + Kiss - 190

9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield + Defend - 162

9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Twin Shuriken Catapults + Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stone + Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon - 110

9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Twin Shuriken Catapults + Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stone + Twin-Linked Eldar Missile Launcher - 130

10 Guardians - Bright Lance Platform - 110

11 Guardians - Scatter Laser Platform - 103

Falcon - Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields + Spirit Stone - 185

3 War Walkers - 5 Scatter Lasers + 1 Starcannon - 190

Wraithlord - Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher + 2 Flamers - 155
 

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The Fallen
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Hi All,

Take a gander and let me know your thoughts on the effectiveness and comp of the following;
it looks like it has grown from a smaller army but not in the most efficient way mate, I will try and highlight what I mean:
Avatar of Khaine - 155
Fair enough, you have a fair number of large targets and guardians to keep fearless
Farseer - Singing Spear + Guide - 78
what is he guiding? war walker? fine
5 Scorpions
Scorpion Exarch - Scorpion's Claw + Stalker - 128
shadow strike would give you options, even if you intend to use them as counter charge, but in any case the squad is too small, it will work in smaller games because your opponent will use smaller squads, but in 2000 points it needs to be 10 strong
7 Harlequins - 3 Kisses
Shadowseer - Veil of Tears, Hallucinogen Grenades + Kiss - 190
needs 2 more kisses and the squad number topping up again, it is a squad that will work in smaller games but needs the numbers at this level, also I would expect it to achieve far less in 2000 points, most armies will allocate a mobile shooting unit to deal with them and they will die with ease
9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield + Defend - 162
give them blade storm too
9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Twin Shuriken Catapults + Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stone + Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon - 110

9 Dire Avengers
Avenger Exarch - Twin Shuriken Catapults + Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stone + Twin-Linked Eldar Missile Launcher - 130
fine
10 Guardians - Bright Lance Platform - 110
gods no, you need your AT to hit more than half the time, particularly at this level where you can face LRCs, LRs and frankly all sorts of armoured nastyness, I would look at your WL or your serpents as AT platforms, use these guys for anti infantry
11 Guardians - Scatter Laser Platform - 103
better, consider warlocks with conceal
Falcon - Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields + Spirit Stone - 185
Fine
3 War Walkers - 5 Scatter Lasers + 1 Starcannon - 190
A little curious, was the star cannon spare points or because you had the spare part or just mistaken glueing?
Wraithlord - Bright Lance, Eldar Missile Launcher + 2 Flamers - 155
fine

I thing that clearly there are a lot of units that need topping up (IMO), this is, as I said, I suspect a sucessful smaller army that is trying to grow, unfortunatley I think you are trying to do too much, dropping a unit would allow you to top up the others, have you bought all these models yet? I would be looking to drop perhaps one of the guardian squads and probably the harleys for preference
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Cheredanine

Thanks for the comments.
it looks like it has grown from a smaller army but not in the most efficient way mate, I will try and highlight what I mean
You are correct. I like my armies in progressive blocks
what is he guiding? war walker? fine
Yup
shadow strike would give you options, even if you intend to use them as counter charge, but in any case the squad is too small, it will work in smaller games because your opponent will use smaller squads, but in 2000 points it needs to be 10 strong
I know you are against this, but I run them in the Falcon. It is amazingly effective, this small unit puts out alot of attacks and always makes it into combat. Shadowstrike just doesnt work for me. No fleet and 6" movement, wily opponents will just move away or charge you with their choice units.
needs 2 more kisses and the squad number topping up again, it is a squad that will work in smaller games but needs the numbers at this level, also I would expect it to achieve far less in 2000 points, most armies will allocate a mobile shooting unit to deal with them and they will die with ease
Dont see it. What will 2 more do? The veil keeps them safe. Any decent amount of shooting will kill 10 as easily as 8.
gods no, you need your AT to hit more than half the time, particularly at this level where you can face LRCs, LRs and frankly all sorts of armoured nastyness, I would look at your WL or your serpents as AT platforms, use these guys for anti infantry
What load out would you suggest for this unit?
A little curious, was the star cannon spare points or because you had the spare part or just mistaken glueing?
This is the primary unit i use guide on, I just added a third member. I am trying out an errant idea i had.
 

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The Fallen
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I know you are against this, but I run them in the Falcon. It is amazingly effective, this small unit puts out alot of attacks and always makes it into combat. Shadowstrike just doesnt work for me. No fleet and 6" movement, wily opponents will just move away or charge you with their choice units.
actually you missread me a little mate, my falcon transport objection is predominantly againt dragons, less worried about scorpions, they should make combat, they should inflict a lot of attacks, however my concern is two fold and both linked and about the unit size:

a) they dont put out enough attacks to wipe out a full sized meq squad,
b) this means they get a fair few attacks back, and with so few members the attrition will kill them

if you have the same sized unit as your opponent that is a different matter, which is why in smaller battles this size of unit is fine, but I suspect it will be less effective in a game of this points size, perhaps switch the falcon with a serpent and top up the numbers? be worth trying anyway

also think you may still be under estimating shadow strike, if your opponents are that scared of your scorps then you are A) denying them areas of the board and b) you can time their emeergence with other units arrival in their face then you should have more luck making it into combat


That said I am not overly fussed that you dont want to use shadow strike, I think one the whole I would recomend testing them out as a full squad in a serpent
Dont see it. What will 2 more do? The veil keeps them safe. Any decent amount of shooting will kill 10 as easily as 8.
hmm ok maybe I should have expressed this better,
the main point is at 2000 points your opponent can affort to use a full unit to deal with harleys
this is a comparably trivial thing to do, I do it regularly with my sons harleys at all points valued, (from CP through to 8000 points) -they have yet to make contact with me, so much so that at 2000 points he specifically uses them as bait to lure units into his kill zones rather than actually using them offensively (this does work rather well)

The other issue was the squad size, if you make combat (I may be teaching you to suck eggs here so appologies if I am): you need to kill most of the opponent in the turn you charge but probably not all, it would be better to leave some alive and in combat so you can kill them in his turn and then charge again in your next turn (This avoids both ending up with a consolidation move leaving you easily in range of rapid fire and without the protection of VOT as well as to a lesser degree making charges through consolidation where you do not benefit from the extra attack or furious charge)
To do this exposes you to counter strike, the T and Sv of harleys means that most stuff will do some damage, the attrition will wear you down.

Conventional wisdom says the optimum composition for a harley squad is 10 harleys (inc shadow seer) with 5 kisses (plus or minus a kiss). Casualties are removed from the non-kiss harleys
What load out would you suggest for this unit?
for standard Guardians? mutli shot weapon platform (scatter laser, Shuriken cannon, to a lesser degree star cannon) and possibly a guardian with conceal
This is the primary unit i use guide on, I just added a third member. I am trying out an errant idea i had.
Fair enough
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
my falcon transport objection is predominantly againt dragons
Why? Granted the unit is toast once it disembarks. But 6 for 96pts = One tank or MC.
Is that not a good investment?

That said I am not overly fussed that you dont want to use shadow strike, I think one the whole I would recomend testing them out as a full squad in a serpent
Will do after the next tourney, This is the list I have commited to using in two weeks.
so that at 2000 points he specifically uses them as bait to lure units into his kill zones rather than actually using them offensively (this does work rather well)
haha, Yeah ive done this, best one is when they sit deep in a quarter and just glare at the enemy. Ive won games without them moving once!


they dont put out enough attacks to wipe out a full sized meq squad,
The other issue was the squad size, if you make combat (I may be teaching you to suck eggs here so appologies if I am): you need to kill most of the opponent in the turn you charge but probably not all, it would be better to leave some alive and in combat so you can kill them in his turn and then charge again in your next turn (This avoids both ending up with a consolidation move leaving you easily in range of rapid fire and without the protection of VOT as well as to a lesser degree making charges through consolidation where you do not benefit from the extra attack or furious charge)
Ched, these two comments make me wonder how you use yre eldar assault units. In 50 games i dont think i have charged a full MEQ squad. I guess I use my assault units as another form of shooting (real existenial huh?) they co-operate and are the finishers of units. Either that or counter assault to dig out my shooting unit that get in trouble.

P.S - Just thought of something - A Guardian w. a Bright Lance has the same chance of hurting a LR as a Warlock w, a Singing Spear....
 

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The Fallen
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Why? Granted the unit is toast once it disembarks. But 6 for 96pts = One tank or MC.
Is that not a good investment?
i have detailed thise elsewhere in detail so dont particularly want to re run the debate but, ok TMC- well to be fair unless you best mate has many, they are not there that often. essentially 10 dragons in a serpent I am perhaps fine with as they can deal with TMC or powerful hqs etc
but to kill a vehicle with this; well to be honest in all probability the falcon can do it anyway, and you have to put your falcon in the way of a whole range of guns which it is normally safe from (plasma pistols, meltas, grenade launchers etc), finally it is comparably easy for some armies such IG and actually nids, to screen your target with hoard infantry, preventing you from pulling off the trick

not saying it doesnt work but it will tend not to work against a skilled opponent, and is not really efficient
Will do after the next tourney, This is the list I have commited to using in two weeks.
that is fair enough, a good deal of how people play is to do with does the army fit their styole and is it in their comfort zone, it is common that people, given a "better" army (although how do you measure this?) will play worse
haha, Yeah ive done this, best one is when they sit deep in a quarter and just glare at the enemy. Ive won games without them moving once!
It does work although i you are gonna do that best not to hurl too many points at the unit
Ched, these two comments make me wonder how you use yre eldar assault units. In 50 games i dont think i have charged a full MEQ squad. I guess I use my assault units as another form of shooting (real existenial huh?) they co-operate and are the finishers of units. Either that or counter assault to dig out my shooting unit that get in trouble.
:) |the basic premis I tend to operate under is that I want to hit with everything at the same time or as near as damit, occasionally you have to commit before the main hit to put a stopper on some lethal unit, but generally all at once

hanging around tends to get you shot up, so I favour had and fast, the mobility being the key to when they hit, accordingly the assault units dont get much choice about when to assault

That said, that is predominantly how I hav tought my son to fight (8000 points of mech eldar bless him)
my own eldar uses shooting over assault, of my three armies, whilst my Ulthwe has banshees and scorpions, it has sat in the attic for about 4 years, my Siam Hann and Lilithean (maiden world - similiar to siam hann) have harleys and scorpions which I prettymuch stopped using, and shining spears or wild rider chieftan and kin, these latter ones are my main asault units and are mainly used for decapitation
P.S - Just thought of something - A Guardian w. a Bright Lance has the same chance of hurting a LR as a Warlock w, a Singing Spear....
no, warlock has better BS and yes that is why I prefer the walker with 2 Bright lances or the nightwing with the same for my main AT, that said, I face far monoliths far more often than land raiders, and against them the warlock is considerably better
 
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