[mrsap]

I'm jumping between two lists and looking for some suggestions either to drop or add different stuff.

I have settle on two lists. Let me know which one is better and why or if I should make some modifications to some or both.
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster

HQ: Keeper of Secrets

HQ: Great Unclean One: Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies

Elite: 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne with chaos Icon

Elite: 5 Fiends of Slaanesh

Elite: 3 Flamers of Tzeentch

Troops: 10 Bloodletters of Khorne

Troops: 10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Fast Attack: 5 Screamers of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of slaanesh with Iron Hide, Aura of Acquiscence, and Pavane of Slaanesh


Total Roster Cost: 1998

or
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster

HQ: Keeper of Secrets

HQ: Herlad of Khorne on a jugger
HQ: Herald of Tzteetch with bolt mastery of sorcery, and we are legion

Elite: 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne

Elite: 5 Fiends of Slaanesh

Elite: 3 Flamers of Tzeentch

Troops: 10 Bloodletters of Khorne

Troops: 10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Fast Attack: 4 Screamers of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of slaanesh with Iron Hide, Aura of Acquiscence, and Pavane of Slaanesh


Total Roster Cost: 1997

Let me know which one you think is best and why. I will be playing against marines, dual lash CSM,, and Tau mostly.

I made this army because I have a FW Khorne herald and DP, the FW keeper of secrets and the FW GUO.

 

[==Me==]

Walking DPs, Crushers, and Kheralds are quite slow, so it's tricky to get them in combat in time.

I would alter the 1st list a bit, dropping the Horrors and Flamers in favor of more Fiends, add some Flesh Hounds and take 2 Tzeentch DPs w/ bolt.

It'll end up something like so:
KoS
2x Tzerald on chariot w/ bolt
Juggers (make the Kherald into one of these)
2x 6 Fiends
2x 10 Bletters
2-4x 5 PBs
Flesh Hounds
2x Tzeentch DPs w/ bolt
Khorne DP

Use your mobile units to shut down enemy shooting, then throw your slow moving bricks at them.

 

[Mathlete]

I'm jumping between two lists and looking for some suggestions either to drop or add different stuff.

I have settle on two lists. Let me know which one is better and why or if I should make some modifications to some or both.
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster

HQ: Keeper of Secrets

You need to add musk.

HQ: Great Unclean One: Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies

I'd drop, the armies already too slow.

Elite: 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne with chaos Icon

Drop for fiends.

Elite: 5 Fiends of Slaanesh

bump to six, add might.

Elite: 3 Flamers of Tzeentch

fine.

Troops: 10 Bloodletters of Khorne

I run them at eight or 16, but 10 is fine.

Troops: 10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

They're so fragile that you need 12 minimum, but more like 15-20. 18 is a nice number.

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Drop down to 5 for competitiveness, or up to 9 for fluff. With horrors it's not so important that they come in large numbers. If they see combat it's better that only 5 die, and they will die. Better to combine fire across two units. Also, you need changeling.

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

As above.

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

If you like icons, combine the two units together and put one here. Also, a musician can be handy.

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

As above.

Fast Attack: 5 Screamers of Tzeentch

Arn't great. I'd drop them.

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

These arn't really much good for anything. I'd drop them both.

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of slaanesh with Iron Hide, Aura of Acquiscence, and Pavane of Slaanesh

Drop this for DP of Nurgle

Then I'd do this with the list;

Keeper of Secrets; Musk - 220
Herald of Tzeentch; Chariot, Bolt, MoS, WaL - 110
Herald of Tzeentch; Chariot, Bolt, MoS, WaL - 110

6xFiends; Might - 190
6xFiends; Might - 190
3xFlamers - 105

10xBloodletters; Fury - 170
12xDaemoettes; - 168
5xHorrors; Bolt, Changeling - 100
5xHorrors; Bolt - 95
5xPlaguebearers; Musician - 80
5xPlaguebearers; Musician - 80

DP: MoT, Bolt, Gaze - 160
DP; MoN, Iron Hide, Cloud of Flies, Wings, Touch - 215

7 points, knock yourself out.

You're main anti vehicle is bolts and DP of MON and KoS. Everything else is pretty self explanatary.

or
2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster

HQ: Keeper of Secrets

HQ: Herlad of Khorne on a jugger
HQ: Herald of Tzteetch with bolt mastery of sorcery, and we are legion

Elite: 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne

Elite: 5 Fiends of Slaanesh

Elite: 3 Flamers of Tzeentch

Troops: 10 Bloodletters of Khorne

Troops: 10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 7 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt of Tzeentch

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Troops: 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

Fast Attack: 4 Screamers of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Khorne with Iron Hide, Unholy Might

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of slaanesh with Iron Hide, Aura of Acquiscence, and Pavane of Slaanesh

as above.


Total Roster Cost: 1997

 

[mynameisgrax]

The above posters both have very good points. Mathlete's list is closer to what I use, but ==Me== also has good points.

Flesh hounds are better than screamers for trashing most vehicles, as far as fast attack choices go. Overall, fiends are best.

I don't like bloodletters. They're too slow, have no offensive grenades, and I think the troop choices should focus more on objective grabbing. Daemonettes work well in large units of 15-20, as Mathlete suggested, although seekers are better (but difficult to model). Pink horrors work well in either groups of 5 with bolt, or 9 with the changeling. Plaguebearers work best in units of 6-8, and are generally the best units to give icons to.

I don't like Daemon Princes of Khorne either. If they aren't going to fly and assault with Mark of Nurgle and noxious touch, then they better be shooting bolts or pavane/daemonic gaze. The mark of Khorne is wasting a perfectly good chance to exploit BS5 or T6 (when given MoN). If you really like DP of Khorne, then just go the extra mile and use bloodthirsters.

 

[mrsap]

Wow thanks guys!! I love the feedback, so good. I hate when people just say good or I wouldn't take it drop this. You guys a very specific. I am making changes as we speak. The reason I have Khorne DP's is cus i have the fw one and a painted converted one, See link:
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/projects/184901-daemon-army-painting-project.html

I will be adding more fiends for sure. Is the FW GUO to big for a DP? Would people complain do you think?

I also have the FW bloodthirster which is why the khorne DP I painted can only be a DP. I really like khorne, why do they got to suck so bad!!
I will have a new list out soon with your criticisms implemented as much as possible.

Some questions for you ya though are,

Is a slaanesh DP that bad cuz he has Pavane or is Pavane just not worth it?
Do you need to model wings on a DP model for it to have it?
Is musk on the KoS really that important? Why?
Aren't you focusing on the rending for killing stuff with the fiends, why do you need the +1 str on one model. Couldn't the points be better spend somewhere else?

Thanks in advance for your comments so far and your responses to my questions that have just emerged. You guys rock!

 

[==Me==]

It's not so much tha Khorne stuff sucks, it's just slow. They don't do anything except move 6" and wreck face in combat, so you need speedy units or shooty units to catch fast enemies and down transports.

FW GUO is huge, but that ends up working against you so I doubt anyone will object (good luck finding clear ground for it to DS into )

Slaanesh DPs are awesome because of Pavane. Their biggest problems are low T and high cost, they really need Musk, Pavane, Might and Iron Hide to be any good, and that adds up.

Wings generally need to be modeled, but if you have a suitable replacement (jetpack, levitation, gas pockets, whatever) it should be ok, just make sure your opponent is aware.

Musk gives Hit & Run, which is huge for anything. It means the Keeper/Fiend/DP can charge and break away, going 2D6 any direction you want (closer to something else), leaving its former victims high and dry. You use your speedy musk units to engage the closest enemies, hold them up, then bounce away after bad guys further away, leaving the weakened squad for your slow units to munch on. The Slaaneshi ping pong ball trick can be used to give your Keeper/Fiend/DP bonus movement. A Fiend using H&R can move up to 36" in a single turn (6" move, D6" run, 12" assault, 2D6" H&R). That's a huge area of board they can cover quickly (charge in your turn, H&R in their turn, charge again in yours).

Fiends are used to tie stuff down and dish out a ton of S5 attacks, rending is gravy. One of their primary roles is tearing apart rear AV10/11 vehicles, and the extra point of S is extremely useful for this (it even lets them penetrate Land Raiders, but it's not likely).

 

[ikbuh]

All of the Forgeworld Greater Daemons are HUGE.

Have you seen the Tzeentch one? The Horror fire in it's hand is bigger then that Sister of Battle xD

 

[Mathlete]

If you really want a khorne DP in your army, do something like this;

DP; MoK, BotBG - 105pts

I've had some real success with dirt cheap DP's, but only when I've had spare Heavy Support slots avaliable. Dump them with a unit of bloodletters, and they suddenly become much more of a target priority then before, especially against MEQ armies that are out of thier transports. The only problem is that the unit is so slooooow.

If you haven't got anything that you want to put into those slots, then you can do this. Just keep the DP cheap; they're a real point sink unit, and with Khorne DP's those points are better spent elsewhere. A DP like;

DP; MoK, BotBG, Might, Iron Hide, Flight - 215pts

looks great, but you might as well just spend the extra 35pts and get a bloodthirster. But at 95-105pts, they're not so expensive that they're detremental to the rest of your army.

 

[Mathlete]

Ok, I've just looked at your painting thread - the DP and Great Unclean one are too good not to use. Here's a revised list that'll give you these options - it's not going to be 100% competitve, but it'll still be good.

GUO; Cloud of Flies, Aura of Decay - 185pts
Hearld of Slaanesh; Chariot, Might, Musk, Icon - 120pts
Hearld of Slaanesh; Chariot, Might, Musk, Icon - 120pts

6xFiends; Might - 190
6xFiends; Might - 190
4xBloodcrushers; Icon, Fury - 195pts

10xBloodletters; Fury - 170
20xDaemoettes; - 280
10xPlaguebearers; Musician - 155

DP: MoK, BotBG - 105
DP; MoS, Iron Hide, Aura, Pavene - 145
DP; MoS, Iron Hide, Aura, Pavene - 145

The army breaks into three parts; Quick stuff, slow stuff and nurgle. The quick stuff pinballs around the backfield, bringing down the GUO directly ontop of a dangerous unit to tarpit it. The DP's, bloodcrushers, and letters are then brought foward to mop up anything left. The two pavene's provide fleet for the slow parts, and pull stuff out of cover.

You relying on slaanesh for you Anti tank which is a problem, but if you play it for a while you'll start seeing how it works. It shouldn't struggle too much.

 

[mrsap]

Thanks guys I'm going to try and get photoshop (so expensive) and get better pics. Almost done my FW DP.
Thanks for the list, it will help alot.
mrsap

 

[==Me==]

I like that list, I'd just split up the Plaguebearers and lose all the icons. Finding a way to squeeze in some Flesh Hounds would be handy too.

 

[mrsap]

Are flesh hounds really that good? Seekers seem better.
You use them to tie stuff up till your nasty stuff gets there I'm guessing.
mrsap

 

[Mathlete]

Seekers are ok, but Hounds have two things going for them; a) t4, b)s5. Some might argue rending is better, but for what hounds do in my list (go after Av10 vehicles, tie up shooting units for more than one turn, generally annoy) I much prefer them.