[insomniac666]

Lords and Heroes

Sorceress-160
Level 2
Darkstar Cloak

Sorceress-175
Level 2
Tome of Furion
Dispel Scroll

Death Hag-200
Cauldron of Blood

Core

10 Crossbowman-100

10 Crossbowman-100

19 Warriors-145
shields
Champ and standard

Special

20 Black Guard-330
FC
Banner of Hag Graef

6 Cold One Knights-242
FC
War Banner
Null Talisman

10 Shades-198
great weapons
Bloodshade

15 Executioners-225
FC
Cold Blood Banner

Rare

2 Bolt Throwers

War Hydra


So basically it's a balanced list where I want to be able to compete in any and all phases. Flexibility was a big thing here for me, the Cauldron plays a huge part in that. I realize the CoK unit is a bit pricy, I may slim them down a bit. Otherwise I want to try and squeeze in either Dark Riders or another unit of CoK's. Any and all comments are welcome and wanted. Especially any ideas on where to crunch down a bit on points to squeeze in some more cav.

 

[Recognize Your Chain]

You keep your heroes pretty cheap which is a good thing for this type of army. I don't necessarily think your CoK is too expensive because those BG will draw a lot of attention and the CoK speed will be able to keep them in CC a lot leaving less room to shoot.

The general sentiment around here seems to say that you should have Dark Riders and drop the Executioners. Yes, the DR are a great multipurpose unit and can set the pace for table and movement control; And yes the Exes do find themselves stuck behind both the BG as a solid block anvil and the CoK as shock troops. But that doesn't necessarily make your list the wrong choice. Especially with the Cauldron. Giving the GW with KB of the Executioners an additional attack can really be devastating. Especially with the attention being drawn away from them by the BG, they might be able to be used as false bate. If moved a little ahead out, seemingly out of the range of support, an opponent might be willing to take a charge from a seemingly 'weaker' unit because they think they can withstand the initial charge and have support come in to wipe you out the next round. But with the Cauldron giving you 11 str 6 KB attacks, you can really do some unrecoverable damage. From then on possibly shifting the focus of away from your BG keeping their numbers high until they get into CC.

My one main compliant which I have run into a lot is there seems to be a lack of ability to kill any high T lords in units. Yes the RBTs can deal a lot of damage to montsters, but no matter how many rank and file troops I cut down in CC, the tough hero is still there and honestly DE just can't soak up the hits, so all our kills are offset by his. Now you do have higher SCR than I usually do so you aren't as reliant on kills to win combat, but still I've seen too many of my units just not be able to stand up to multi-wound, high armor and T lords. There are two solutions that I usually go to. First is 'Unkillable' Dreadlord: usually mounted on a Cold One, give him Crimson Death, PoK, Armor of Eternal Servitude. 4 Str 6 hits, +1 armor save, +1 ward save, and regen to clean up any that get past the armor and ward. Can usually outlast almost anything.
Second is the KB Assassin: Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Black Lotus. Keep in mind you pretty much have the first round to kill him, but i've done a lot of test rolls and it's fairly successful. 5-7 attacks that almost all land due to his high WS+Hatred. so usually 5-6 chances to roll a 6 to wound to get the KB in with the Black Lotus letting you re-roll 1s to wound, giving just a little extra chance to land it. More risky, but with his ASF, can be used to spring out of a bait unit. If you knock the Exes down to 12 (6 wide) and the Warriors to 15 you might be able to afford him.

Just something to think about.

 

[insomniac666]

Hmm that Assassin does sound like a good solution to characters. That's a pretty good idea, i'll play around with the points and see what i can do. Otherwise you pretty much hit the nail on the head concerning what I was thinking for this list, I use the Cauldron to fill in where needed and make a unit better to fit the situation. I'm still gonna try and see if I get some DR in somehow, but your assassin idea sounds a bit more juicy so I'll go with that if I cant work out both. Thanks a bunch for the advice though, quite useful. Cheers.


-Edit-

Lords and Heroes

Sorceress-160
Level 2
Darkstar Cloak

Sorceress-175
Level 2
Tome of Furion
Dispel Scroll

Death Hag-200
Cauldron of Blood

Core

10 Crossbowman-100

10 Crossbowman-100

15 Warriors-105
shields

5 Dark Riders-117
bows
Musician

Special

20 Black Guard-323
Champ and Standard
Banner of Hag Graef

6 Cold One Knights-254
Champ and Standard
Ring of Hotek
Standard of Slaughter

8 Shades-146
great weapons

12 Executioners-168
Champ and Standard

Rare

2 Bolt Throwers

War Hydra


I was able to squeeze in the DR here by taking out a few models and pretty much all of my musicians and the Cold Blood banner. The reduced points on the Executioners makes them much more expendable now too, while still filling out the roll needed.

 

[insomniac666]

bump for a bit more input

Most current list

Lords and Heroes

Sorceress-160
Level 2
Darkstar Cloak

Sorceress-175
Level 2
Tome of Furion
Dispel Scroll

Death Hag-225
Cauldron of Blood
BSB

Core

10 Crossbowman-100

10 Crossbowman-100

15 Warriors-108
shields
musician

5 Dark Riders-110
bows

Special

20 Black Guard-348
Champ and Standard
Banner of Hag Graef
Crimson Death

6 Cold One Knights-254
Champ and Standard
Ring of Hotek
Standard of Slaughter

7 Shades-126
great weapons

12 Executioners-168
Champ and Standard

Rare

2 Bolt Throwers

War Hydra


BG are 6x3, but I may try and find a spare 10 points (could easily cut musician on warriors) to make them 21 to go 7x3. also I know it's medium magic, and I don't love the fact, but I couldn't think of what else to do and I wanted some magic to add another level into play. Basically, I want to win movement, period. Depending on the enemy I then will win either shooting or combat and compete in the other and still compete in magic. That's winning 2 and competing in 2 facets of the game hopefully.

 

[notabot187]

I dont really like lists with just 2 lvl 2s, but at least you made the attempt at making them powerful, 7 dice and 5 spells is respectable.

That warrior block is doing nothing for you. It only has 3 SCR most of the time, as 15 is unlikely to outnumber. Bump it up to 20-25, give it full command (full command on warriors is really cheap) and maybe add the war banner.

Your special choices suffer from unit bloat.

I personally don't like 20 strong BG units, as they are rather expensive to be paying for SCR and extra wounds on what is effectively an anvil unit that wins by killing things with ASF. Cut it down to 14 with the same upgrades, it saves 78 points. You can't actually make them 21, as their unit size is capped at 20.

I don't like upgraded CoK units much. Sure your configuration is going to do some serious hurt, with the volume of attacks and magic standard. But with the extra points spent on it added to the extra points spent on the BG, you could buy another unit of CoKs. I personally have found, especially in a cauldron list, that a naked unit of CoKs does just as well at running down the enemy as the full kit. Stupidity is also an issue. With the chances of failing about 1 in 6, its better to have 135 points go dumb than 254

Executioners suck, pretty much no matter how you run them. Sure you can make them work, but it is not easy or cheap. I would just take 5-7, give them no command, and use them as a flanking unit and stubborn (with cauldron) speedbump. They aren't bad with +1 attack, when they get the charge. The only way they are getting the charge is if they are too unimportant to be concentrated on. Honestly though, I just don't take them, and give BG or witches killing blow instead.

In this list I would use the points saved on not taking executioners, and put them into a rending star manbane assassin for your shades. Or in upgrading your wizard to lord level.

 

[insomniac666]

Well I wrote up 2 new lists and posted them but for some reason it didn't work and it hasn’t been letting me post recently, sigh. here goes nothin. Basically anyway, the advice is much appreciated and I appreciate that rule catch. I’ve thought about the changes you mentioned before, and I’ve just been waiting for someone else to say it. I see your point on the CoK's but I really just love that unit, hehe. Anyway, here are 2 lists with some changes. I like the first list a bit more and the second list is basically indentical to another one on this site. In any case, now I'll have 3 lists to play around with with relatively the same models.

List 1

Lords and Heroes

Sorceress-185
Level 2
Darkstar Cloak
Dispel Scroll

Sorceress-180
Level 2
Tome of Furion
Seal of Ghrond

Death Hag-225
Cauldron of Blood
BSB

Core

10 Crossbowman-100

10 Crossbowman-100

25 Warriors-215
shields
FC
Warbanner

5 Dark Riders-110
bows

Special

14 Black Guard-270
Champ and Standard
Banner of Hag Graef
Crimson Death

6 Cold One Knights-229
Champ and Standard
Standard of Slaughter

7 Shades-126
great weapons

5 Cold One Knights

Rare

2 Bolt Throwers

War Hydra



List 2

Lords and Heroes

Supreme Sorceress-345
Sac. Dagger
Pendant of Khaeleth
Dispel Scroll

Sorceress-180
Level 2
Tome of Furion
Seal of Ghrond

Death Hag-225
Cauldron of Blood
BSB

Core

10 Crossbowman-100

20 Warriors-140
shields

5 Dark Riders-110
bows

Special

14 Black Guard-270
Champ and Standard
Banner of Hag Graef
Crimson Death

6 Cold One Knights-229
Champ and Standard
Standard of Slaughter

6 Shades-108
great weapons

6 Cold One Knights

Rare

2 Bolt Throwers

War Hydra

 

[JeremyKyle]

List 2 is good why the sac dagger though ? give her darkstar cloak instead!

 

[super sorcerer]

b"h

why the sac dagger though

Sacrificial dagger could kill some warriors for extra power dice. One more power dice to each spell is nice, especialy if you can decide wheather you use another die or not only after you rolled your magic dice.