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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As a continuation of my 2K chracian army list i am now about to enter a tournament ( in about 3 weeks) for 2250 pt lists. This is the developemnt of my earlier chracian list. All advice critisims graetfully recieved.
Archmage Lvl4 ring of fury dispel scroll silver wand 330pts
Mage Lvl2 jewel of dusk dispel scroll 170pts
Noble BsB armour of caledor great axe 143pts
Noble reaver bow enchanted shield heavy armour lance great eagle 191pts
10 archers
10 archers
14 white lions full command + banner of sorcery 290pts
13 white lions full command
7 white lions including musician
7 white lions including musician
5 ellyrion reavers spears and bows
1 great eagle
3 repeater bolt throwers
total 2246 pts
10-12 PD + RoF
5DD + 2 DS

The major weakness of my previous list found over about 40-45 games against various opponents was in manoverability (primarily some opponents being able to outmanover me) and being magic light hopefully this list at the higher points level has adressed these two weaknesses. All comments welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
They are intended as flanking units,with no heavy cavalry to accomplish this task. They also increase the hitting power of the army 4 units with 7-8 S6 attacks rather than 3 units if they were consolidated into one unit. In addition these units are less vulnerable to canon fire than the two big blocks, having no ranks and i fight dwarfs and empire quite a lot.
 

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Hmm. It looks like a very solid list. It is shooting resistant, and quite shooty in return. I would personally have one of the flanking units as swordmasters, but as this is chrace themed, that is not likely.

The rest looks solid. I assume you will be taking High magic for curse of arrow attraction? That spell combined with your excellent shooting phase should do some real damage on the enemy.

Let me know how you do.

ninja out
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for the kind comments GN, yes one or both of the mages, ususally at least the archmage takes high magic. Cursed arrow of attraction cast on your opponents best unit on your first turn and hitting them with 20 archers 3 repeater bolt throwers 5 ellyrion reavers and the reaver bow dos'nt ususaly leave much to worry about, or it at least worys your opponents so much that they concentrate on blocking it the next turn. Then the next magic phase you hit them with dispell magic twice because they are concentrating on cursed arrow of attracton virtually eliminating their magic phase. Thereafter they concentrate on these two and you can usually get the fury of khain off twice and they don't know what to do, and after this they have to face 41 white lions in CC not a pleasant prospect for any opponent. IMHO the changes to High magic have made the tactics of the magic phase as enjoyable as those of manover and CC. I have fought this list 6 times thus far against various opponents and it has proved very resilient, no loses so far! I am looking forward to the tournament. thanks for the advice and comments.
 

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I'm interested as to where you put your characters. I'm also jealous that you've played 40-45 games with a HE list since the new book. I've played about 5 I think. The main concern I have is for scouting/skirmishing armies or guys that have units that can pop out and eat your RBT's. You'll have a hard time dealing with those in my opinion (scorpions, gorgers, waywatchers or even ambushing herds)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks for the input BuckeroO, I keep one of the characters/ mages in the RBT/archers back line ( from your earlier suggestion in a previous thread) and the archmage starts with the unit of WL that includes the BsB and then moves if appropriate. I usually leave one of the small units of WL just behind the two archer units near the RBT and I always sepparate the RBT. I never have all three together, even if I have a hill in the perfect possition only two RBT's go on it because I like to create a crossfire with them and it avoids you losing all three to one unit in the worst case senario, usually all three are separated at least just enough so that one unit can only take out one of them at a time.I have actually fought over 97 games with the new army book (these varied is size from 500-3000pts), but then my work does not interfere with gaming and we have gaming weekends where if i am lucky I can get 6 -7 games in, I do appreciate how fortunate i am! I adapt my tactics to suit my opponents against some army's such as those with multiple scouting units or tunnelers and such like i frequently fight quite defensively against others quite agrresively.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The best mage bunker I have found in the various incarnations of my army list is a unit of 10 SM with full command and the banner of ellyrion. These can hide from most missile fire act as a lethal flanking unit and its very difficult (but not impossible) for any opponent to kill your archmage with 5 S5 attacks on anyone in base to base contact with the mage and asf. This also gets round many of the attacks that preceed asf. You can't charge charriots into a wood and ogers cant charge in a wood and therefore dont get the bull charges. I am sure there are many other ways of keeping our valuble archmages alive magical items etc but this has worked most effectively for me. Obviously this unit has no place in a chrace themed list hence why its not here!
 

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How does the bird noble work for you out of curiosity? I've seen him without the bird, just sitting back shooting stuff (normally hits on a 2 anyway) How does he do flying around? Does he get his bird knocked out from under him often? Does he die (only T3,easy to fail armor save even with the EnchShld) I'm trying to change up my characters a bit, but can't seem to get the balance right (old depeche mode song) I roll dice horribly so I need a pretty decent save to keep my guys alive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The noble on an eagle works fairly well, I play him quite defensively to start with using the mobility of the eagle and reaver bow , using cover to protect him from enemy missile fire as much as possible without restricting his field of fire too much and he helps the ellyrion reavers with scout and tunnelers and the like (the combined charges of both are quite effective). Once the enemys missile fire is at least reduced I play more agressively and use him to hunt and bolster charges. I have had the eagle shot out from under him once and he was just as annoying for my opponent with the 30 inch range of the reaver bow he was well away from any of his units that could charge but could still hit most of his units. I tend to think of him as an enhanced unit of ellyrion reavers and use him in much the same way, but our opponents tend to concentrate on him because he can be exteemly lethal against certain opponents and he's incredibly annoying against all opponents. My brother-in-law has much the same problem as you which is why he gave up playing the dwarfs ( he failed most of their armour saves) he now plays HE since their armours saves are so poor he dos'nt realy worry about failing them. He uses an army that is very character light (AM and BsB) and uses a ward save on the AM and AoC on the BsB. His army as a consequence has lots of hard hitting units, DP's, SM's and WL's, and does fairly well despite this!
 

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yeah, I'm thinking of changing my philosophy a little. I have all these troops, but can't use them, because of the expensive magic characters. I also can't roll dice to save my life, so I always feel I need to overprotect my characters. I'm wondering if I' shouldn't go the way your brother-in-law does and just run a couple of characters and lots of nasty combat troops. I'll post a list later this weekend and let you see what you think about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Look forward to seeing it BuckeroO, mine and my brother-in-laws playing styles are virtually polar opposites. I tend to play mainly defensively whilst he uses a very attacking style of play and his army is optomised for this role. Its incredibly frustrating to have your stuborn WL wiped out buy two units of DP's one with the standard of balance and the other with the banner of ellyrion. Its interesting watching this combination frustrate many oponents as their unbreakable units break and flee ect, especially when they have used this unit to anchor a flank. As a point of interest we have fought on another on many occasions and usually they are reasonably close but he has won about 2 to 1 of our encounters thus far. I am going to play against him with my new chracian list after the tournament this weekend. Let you know how both go!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A short update I am through to the semi-finals of the tournament without too much stress against most opponents and some really enjoyable games. However one of my opponents was using a pre-release edition and army list for the VC, agreed by the tournament organizers, and by all taking part (its only a small tournament between 3 local war gaming clubs, about 36 entry in total), we all wanted to see what they were like. I only got through against the VC player because he fluffed virtually all his dice rolls and he still managed to make it a close match. I think i am going to have to radically overhaul my list if i have to play these too often, much more magic heavy they are really nasty!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Last update to this list I did win this little tournament, a hard but enjoyable fight in the final against a O&G army which was brilliantly painted and fought. This list will stay with me and evolve further. But against the new VC I will have to rewrite this or create a totally new list. I watched two other friendly battles involving the new VC, one word describes them relentless. you have to dominate the magic phase and take them out as early as possible since if they get to your lines you don't have much of a chance.
 

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congrats - sounds awesome. Our local club has fantasy tournies starting in April every 4 months. I don't really go for the big tournaments because of the travel and crazy rules and lists. I like to just play the local stuff (usually about 16 guys or so)

Those VC are going to kick tail. I wish they had taken a few extra months to iron out the kinks of the HE book instead of rushing to make the VC book so strong. I'd love to be able to customize my heroes as much as they do and to do it as effectively.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
updated 2250pt army of chrace

In the light of my recent tournament experience and fighting the new VC in four additional games I have updated and ammended my chracian list. All comments/ critisism welcome;
Archmage, LvL4 ring of fury silver wand dispel scroll 330pts
Mage, Lvl2 dispel scroll jewel of dusk 170pts
Mage, LvL1 annulian crystal 140pts
Noble BsB armour of caledor great axe 143pts
10 Archers
10 Archers
13 white lions full command + banner of sorcery 275pts
14 white lions full command + lion standard & amulet of light 270pts
7 white lions champion and musician
7 white lions champion and musician
5 ellyrion reavers bow&spears
1 great eagle
3 repeater bolt throwers
Total 2249pts
11-13 PD + RoF
7 DD + 2 DS
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the main difference between the 2 lists, right? Chickenhawk noble for the lvl1 mage w/crystal and lion standard and amulet of light.
Mage, LvL1 annulian crystal 140pts
14 white lions full command + lion standard & amulet of light 270pts
11-13 PD + RoF
7 DD + 2 DS

VS.
Noble reaver bow enchanted shield heavy armour lance great eagle 191pts
13 white lions full command
10-12 PD + RoF
5DD + 2 DS

This gives you one more guy to cast drainmagic or shield of saphery and steals one more power dice to give you more dispelling power in the defensive magic phase.
I do have 2 observations (not really suggestions, because I don't know what to do about it)

Noble BsB armour of caledor great axe 143pts : this guy makes me nervous with all the killing blow options the VC have (Wight King with Sword of KB on a 5+)

Mage, LvL1 annulian crystal 140pts : against moderate or little magic armies, this guy is uneeded almost or overkill. You sacrifice a combat hero for magic defense, which probably works in your list's case, due to the amount of Str6 attacks flying around. I guess you could always give him Bear's Anger. Against VC, you'll have to be careful. Having so many mages, it's not hard to get into combat and kill them with something piddling like a skeleton or even direwolf. You'll have to be careful letting them hang by them selves too, since vamps/necros can create new units of zombies anywhere within 12". Even a single dire wolf could take him out over time if you roll bad. Ethereals are also tough for lone mages. Like I said, I'm not sure what to do about it, but you're mages will probably take some wounds in combat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I agree with your analysis entirely buckeroO and i don't know what to do about it either which is why I was asking for advice. keeping to the chracian theme obviously severely limits the choices available for both troops and characters, this and the very limited choice of magic amour/wards further limits the choices available. The amour of caledor is the only descent amour available to characters on foot, a mounted character does not fit into a chracian theme (one on an eagle is just about justifiable) so that only really leaves Korhil which i did seriously consider due to his stubborn leadership 9 but he is so easy to kill. The VC armies i have fought thus far contained quiet a large number of ethereal units and or 17+ PD. The army already has quite high levels of missile fire and high strength CC attacks to deal with the non ethereal units however to deal with these requires magic and or magic weapons and as i am combat character limited (for the reasons discussed previously) magic is the obvious choice it also gives me at least a chance of limiting the VC magic phase. I have in two of the games i have already played lost multiple mages. Perhaps there is no solution and i will have to move away from my chracian themed army to a more diverse army list in order to remain competitive ( I don't mind loosing occasionally but I like to start with a fighting chance). In the group in which I game there are 5 VC armies in production and 4 already in situe, and in the next tournament at the end of next month there are already 17 VC out of 53 armies total registered. Thanks again for all your comments and help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
In the light of buckeroO's comments and recent games against the VC and several other opponents (I have now played my 200th game with the new army book)I have amended my chracian army list yet again. All comment critisism welcome
Archmage LvL4, ring of fury, dispel scroll, silver wand 330pts
Mage LvL2, jewel of dusk, dispel scroll 170pts
Mage LvL2 annulian crystal 175pts
Noble, BsB, amour of caledor, guardian phoenix, great axe 168pts
19 Spear elves full command
19 Spear elves full command
14 White lions full command banner of sorcery 290pts
7 White lions champion and musician +amulet of light 138pts
7 White lions champion and musician
5 Ellyrion reavers bows and spears
1 Great eagle
3 Repeater bolt throwers
Total 2241pts.
12-14 PD + RoF
7DD + 2 DS
 
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