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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As stated in the title this is my third attempt to produce a viable chracian defensive army list. I realy like the chracian theme and whilst not the army I will take to competitive tournaments I will be using it on a regular basis. All advice greatfully recieved.
Archmage LvL4, 2x dispel scrolls, 2 x power stones, jewel of dusk 355pts
Noble battle standard, armour of caledor great wepon 143pts
10 archers
10 archers
14 white lions full command
14 white lions full command
7 white lions including a champion
7 white lions including a champion
5 ellyrion reavers bows and spears
5 ellyrion reavers bows and spears
1 great eagle
3 repeater bolt throwers
total 1992pts
7 power dice + 2 power stones
4 dispel dice + 2 scrolls
with the archmage i will use high magic because all the spells are useful aginst most opponents. i did'nt want to just take a scroll caddy because i like the flexibility to use the high powered spells in some situations, so he give extra flexibility without investing too much in magic. Tactics blunt the enemys magic as much as possible with the archmage. Use the armys substantial missile fire to force the enemy to come to me throught the barrage then counter attack with the 42 white lions ( and yes i do already have 42 white lions, its sad isn't it!) and limit his movements and harras his baseline with the reavers and eagle.
 

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To be honest it isn't the 42 WL but the 4 sets fo command that surprise me.

Models aside
A few things that i like about this list:
1. only an archmage, I haven't seen this yet but when I think about it the build you have is flexible and could dominate the phase if he has too, this save a bit on points although does mean you can only cast each spell once.
2. No Lion Chariots, while the lion's may be from Chrace it is mountainous and forested and full of chariot killing terrain. Reavers make a lot more sense, (probably more useful in this army as well).
3. No Korhil, he could be in there but you probably need the BSB more.

I don't know if the list will work but terrain would be your friend, these guys really would dominate if they were in Chrace, maybe a different story in an open field but it should be fun.

Allonairre

PS. Did you ever use all the white lions in the previous edition or did you just buy up large recently?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thanks for the kind words, yes i did use all of them in the previous ed (I have got 60 painted in total), i fought in a group where the averaged sized battle was 4-5000pts, and I would love an open field with 3 repeater bolts throwers and 30 other shots per turn! thats one of the strengths i think of this army list plenty of firepower if the terrains fairly open. In addition the WL have the best save in the HE army against basic bowfire (at 3+). If their is lots of woods the WL come into their own against just about any opponent including WE. The infantry is also strong enough to worry any opponent with each WL unit having 8 S6 attacks.
 

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I like the list, I just don't know if playing it defensively is the way to go. You've got archers that can move and shoot and still hit on 4's, you have some of the most resiliant (to missilefire at least) infantry outside of dwarves who all strike 1st with WS5 and str6. I would march these bad boys up the field leaving only the RBT's behind (maybe in a center location to drive the enemy into the middle field and take the combat to the enemy. The only one you need to be wary of is the archmage getting into a combat he might not be able to handle, but with his lion bodyguard, he'll probably be safer than usual. Especially after casting shield of saphery on his unit. The only thing I would change is maybe getting a second mage (I guess at the expense of one of the flanking units) to help cast shield of saphery, drain magic and to carry the ring of fury. That would aid your magic phase more than the power stones even because you can then cast certain spells twice and shut down the enemy's magic phase if needed.

I would only take lion chariots if they change the rule to allow them to move through forests without penalty. The only thing Korhil brings to the table is stubborn 9, the bsb is just as good if not better and has abetter chance of staying alive in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the usefull comments, I have also thought about using this army in an offensive fashion and i think it could work, march forwards under the cover of the RBT's and archers ,espicially if they were set up with the RBT's and archers in the centre and the WL on one of the flanks. I would love to get and extra mage and agree with all of the comments i have recieved, but I do not want to loose one of the WL units to do it. The character of this army and the fluff i am writing to give it character is based around these four units and the archmage. I would rather sacrifice one of the RBT's and GE to get one but then i would'nt have enough firepower to force the enemy to come to me. Any suggestions for overcoming this problem greatfully recieved, i realy would like to up the magical power but without sacrificng the character of the army. If I cant do it within the points then i will just have to wait and use him as one of my upgrades when going up to 2250pts
 

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To be honest I'm not big fan of the Chracian theme but I really like the way you have set up your army.

You have got a little bit of everything in there with good shooting cababilities with two units of archers, 3 RBT and also the Ellyrion Reavers.

You have the combat phase more than covered with lots of units of White Lions and also it will be hard for the enemy to lower there numbers down before they get in to combat through shooting.

Your magic, whilst not being overpowered, is still competative. I've never tried just a Archmage on his own without anty other support so will be intrested to hear how it works.

You should also have more than enough to disrup the enemies plans with the units of Reavers and also the Eagle.

Really the only change I wiould make is to swap Champions on the two small White Lion units for a musician each and use them as flanking units.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for all the comments and advice. I would normally take a musician in say a flanking unit of SM but i have found that the WL flanking units rarely break (due to their stubborn ability) and therefore the champion is used to add to the impact. The use of WL and ER fits in with the fluff in the army book since it says that the dark elves often use chrace as a route to the inner realms and the ER patroll against dark elf incursions, so it would make sense that large numbers of ER would be found in association with chracian army's. I also agre with BuckeroO this works much better as an offensive army, I just wish i could find the points for a second mage without altering the army's balance too much!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Updated the list in the light of all the suggestions and i think i found a way to shoehorn the extra mage in without impacting on its general composition or effectiveness, it goes thus
Archmage Lvl4 dispel scroll jewel of dusk 295pts
Mage LvL2 ring of fury 175pts
Noble BsB armour of caledor great wepon 143pts
10 archers
10 archers
7 white lions including champion
7 white lions including champion
7 white lions including champion
7 white lions including champion
14 white lions full command
5 ellyrion reavers bows and spears
1 great eagle
3 repeater bolt throwers
total 1996pts
9 power dice + 1 ring of fury
5 dispel dice + 1 dispell scroll

Since all the advice i intend to use this force to attack rather then defend i dont need the extra unit of ER and I now have 5 units with 8 S6 WS5 attacks and a better magical defence and offence.In addition this set up is much less vulnerable to artilery fire (canons, bolt and stone trowers) with only one ranked unit. If i keep the formation tight all the combat units get their unmodified LD8 for break tests with a re-roll, therby effectively negating the advantage of my opponents big infantry blocks their static CR. Even if i was foolish enough to charge such a unit from the front unsupported and loose the combat due to a massive static CR i still role on a unmodified leadership of 8 with a re-roll ( don't you just love stubborn). The principals the same use the RBT's and archers in the centre to drive the enemy into the centre ground where i march and meet him. Hopefull somewhat weakend by 43 shots per turn and I have kept the hitting power of the army the 42 WL. Thanks for all the great advice any other advice comment greatfull recieved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
A short update, I will be taking this army to tournaments I think, fought 2 battles this weekend and massacered a bretonian and dwarf armys. Hight point watching a bretoniain lance ( of 6 kinghts) charge 7 WL, 5 knights died 1 WL died and the remaining WL chased the last knight down and killed him. Saddest point watching the dwarf lord and hammers with his oathstone surrounded by WL get slaughtered, the rest of the dwarf army was already dead. I am aware that these are probably the ideal armys for this army to fight, but I still think it will do well in a tournament taking on all commers. Next week vampire counts and O&G.
 

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I would have to say i like the first list better,with the second list i am worried about how much space your going to have,i do like the idea of the second mage though.

peace
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
It is tight but they do fit in, I like having the extra unit of WL 5 units with 8 S6 attacks increases the damage I can do and the extra unit gives me more flexibility. It also stops the loss on one unit totally ruining my battle plan (althought I haven't lost one yet, its still early days and the time will come I am sure when I will loose cosiderably more than one unit). It would however be a realively simple change to revert and still maintain the extra mage. I could run them 2 x14 WL with full command and 2 x 7 WL with musicians for the same points cost. I am still at the very early stages of development of this army list and have a lot of games still to play before I settle on the final tournament configuration. However as I said at the beggining of this post I realy like the chracian theme, and now I am convinced that it can be done I am determined to produce a competitive chracian tournament army. I appreciate the interest and advice / comments thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Another advantage of the new army book is that this list is easily tranferable to the other elite infantry choices. Anybody fancy facing an army of saphrey with 42 swordmatser either 3x14 or 2x14 and 2x7 flankers with three level 1's with power stones and DS and the potential for 3x SoS and 3x DM per turn. Alternatively the army of the phoenix king with 42 phoenix guard and more combat characters with the archmage as originally set up and two nobles insted of two mages. Lots of potential with the new army book. I will however continue with the WL and see how the army progresses. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Another revision of the list in the light of a battle with the O&G tonight ( the O&G lost fairly conclusively i am happy to say) and an appology to brother mike, in the battles against the brets and dwarfs I had a hill in my deployment zone in this one I did'nt and the number of units hampered my RBT's so brother mike you were right! (and I have never before had to eat my own words quite so quickly!!)
Archmage, LvL4, jewel of dusk, dispel scroll.295pts
Mage, LvL2, ring of fury 175pts
Noble, BsB, armour of caledor, great axe, 143pts
10 archers
10 archers
14 white lions full command
14 white lions full command
7 white lions including champion
7 white lions including champion
5 ellyrion reavers with bows
1 great eagle
3 repeater bolt throwers
total 1992pts
9 PD + RoF
5 DD + 1 DS
 
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