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Discussion Starter #1
In my local GW we are having a WHFB competition using all of the End Times rules. The Armies must be less than 2000pts but beyond that anything is fair game. This is my list:

Mannfred Von Carstein- 530pts


Heinrich Kemmler- 350pts


Vampire- 244pts
Level 2 wizard (Lore of Undeath)
Staff of Damnation
Aura of Dark Majesty
Fear Incarnate
Heavy Armour
Shield


Skull Screamers- 395pts
Skeleton Warriors
68x Skeleton warriors
Spears
Screaming Banner
Full Command


Zombies- 121pts
43x Zombies
SB and Musician


Corpse Cart- 120pts
Unholy Lodestone


Mortis Engine- 240pts
Blasphemous Tome

2000pts exactly

Please could you review. I chose VC pure over Undead Legions for the Kemmler/Count Mannfred combo more than anything: I figured 2 loremasters could be brutal with the Khaine magic rules.
 

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I assume you will be rasing an army to fight?

I would drop zombies and 3rd vamp totally not needed. Take advantage of kemmlers ability to increase skeles (if you have the models) break into a few units and multi spam IoN.

For the price of the corpse cart you can get a level 2 light priest which with khaine knows all the light spells hello ws 10 I 10 asf skeles?

Your list is missing anything with punch that said the khaine vamp spell could help with that :)

what's your plan as you may struggle khaine magic is fickle you can't rely on that and with your units you qill quickly see them dissolve?
 

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I agree with the others but would like to point out that as of ET: Archaon, you don't even need to have 25% minimum Core, or a maximum cap on anything. You can literally fill that army with Vampires on Zombie Dragons, with Terrorgheists and as many Blood Knights as you own in support, and skip over the flimsy Zombies and Skeletons altogether. I'd also go Legions, just for the assurance - you lose the Crumble rules, and instead are just an unbreakable beat-stick of an army.

With Khaine magic, it's all about quantity over quality. The dice are entirely too random to be relied on, so if I were playing with Undead I'd just make sure that all of my Vamps had at least one magic level in either Death or Undeath. Level only matters for the "+X to Cast" now.

Just as a general rule for list building - spears on Skeletons is pretty worthless, they're not meant to kill anything. How do you expect them to wound Chaos Warriors when you need 6's to hit them (Nurgle), 5's to Wound them, and then they get a 4+ Save? Your entire list right now is made of two big "anvil" units, and a bunch of lower-level support stuff. You need hammers. Like I said, if I were playing End Times, I'd break it. I'd figure out what people consider the biggest, most overpowered thing in the book to be, and take nothing but that.

I wouldn't really bother with this event, to be honest. Or if you do, I don't advise that you take it seriously. End Times is a pretty horrible idea when you go completely "unbound" and then strap a competitive stance onto it. It's fine for playing friendly games and "what if" scenarios and basically just throwing models onto the table and having a go. But when it comes to playing "real" games of Warhammer, the rules make the game almost unplayable. Players are free to just cobble together a collection of the most powerful characters/units in their books, and may the most broken army win (hint: probably Elves). And if you think they won't do that, or can't do that - I have 6000pts worth of High/Dark Elves, and can easily field 2000pts of nothing but Dragons if I wanted to. My Chaos Warriors could put eighteen Skull Crushers on the table (between conversions and standard models) and I have the models to back that up with a Chaos Lord in every unit, up to 30 Chaos Knights, or I can start dipping into my mate's Daemons collection and start pulling out 9 Beasts of Nurgle, Epidemius behind a Portal Glyph, and 60 Plague Bearers. And ask them if they're following 'The Warriors Code' pdf and therefore allowing monsters from the Storm of Magic stuff, because I've also got access to a pair of converted (no official models, so it's legal) K'daai Destroyers.

ET stuffs Warhammer so far into the money-hammer bag that it feels like playing 'Magic: the Gathering' without mana-costs. Your deck can contain any 50 cards, and that's the end of it. I don't know if they'll be judging you guys based on how much you take the p**** out of the system or not, or how the competition works. It can't be an open tournament format, because I've never seen a GW store (besides the Bunkers and World) with enough table-space to allow for even a 10-man local tourney. So if they're doing some kind of league, I expect most people to drop out within the first week or two, just because some jerk showed up with 6 Steam Tanks or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the comments. The Vampire worked well thanks to the combo with the Screaming Banner, and I was able to fear test lots of the mortal troops out of the fight. The lore of vampires was brutal- at one stage i got a casting total of 15 off of 1D6 with Mannfred for Ivocation. I was rather lacking punch however. I may cut down the size of the zombies and skeletons, probably to bare bones, after seeing just how many troops I could raise in game. The regen from the Mortis engine was useful. I was thinking I may add in a Black Coach. The lore of undeath was pretty worthless in the game; should I use lore of vampires with the vamp as well, or should I just drop the magic level, and put the points elsewhere. The duel loremasters was ridiculous: one dice Ivocation is a real possibility with them, and the +6 to cast and Loremaster really helps take the sting out of the randomness of khaine magic.
 

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I would drop the last vamp all together again break down the skeletons into 3 units of 30 just standards no magic banners drop zombies completely you can raise them with ease with the 2 Lore masters. Pick up a unit of great weapon grave guard put Kemmler there so his high level invocation can get all the skeletons that way you can end up with 3 units of 60 :eek: after that maybe find points to get some black knights for manfred or get the manfred from the nagash book to make him more survivable.

Otherwise just the gg unit and remember if Kemmler kills something it raises another gg unit. Ohhhhhhhhh one more thing the khaine end times vamp spell use it its brilliant very high cast but good a nice way to get a punchy unit on the table best thing if you cast it can't be blocked..

P.s the lore of undeath you should be able to raise some punchy stuff like the morghiests or even another terrorghiest.
 
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