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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let the battle Commence!

PLEASE NOTE: All board edges and turn orders will be determined randomly!

This will be a Gamma level recon mission using the infiltrate, deepstrike, and victory point special rules. Kore will have the south board edge and the second turn while IA will have the north board edge and the first turn.



In the red corner coming in at 1997 pts, 57 necrons and a phase out of 14 models is the masked menace, KORE!

HQ
Lord w/Veil of Darkness and Solar Pulse - 180pts.

Elites
8x Immortals - 224pts.

Troops
12x Warriors - 216pts.
12x Warriors - 216pts.
12x Warriors - 216pts.

Fast Attack
4x Destroyers - 200pts.
4x Destroyers - 200pts.
10x Scarabs - 120pts.

Heavy Support
2x Heavy Destroyers - 130pts.
2x Heavy Destroyers - 130pts.
3x Tomb Spyders - 165pts.

Points: 1997
"Necrons": 57
Phase Out: 14 "Necrons"


In the blue corner weighing in at an impressive 1997 pts, 4 TMCs, and 115 other various bits of biomass is the creature with indiscernible features, IRONANGEL!

HQ:

Tyrant w/ ES + TS + 1x TL-Dev, 1x BS + Psychic Scream
155 pts
2x Tyrant guard w/ RC + ST
90 pts

Tyrant w/ ES + TS + 1x TL-Dev, 1x BS + Psychic Scream
155 pts
2x Tyrant guard w/ RC + ST
90 pts

Elite:

3x warriors w/ ES + EC + TS, 2x TL-Devs, 1x TL-BS
128 pts

3x warriors w/ ES + EC + TS, 2x TL-Devs, 1x TL-BS
128 pts

3x warriors w/ ES + EC + TS, 2x TL-Devs, 1x TL-BS
128 pts

Troops:

16x spineguants
80 pts

16x spineguants
80 pts

16x spineguants
80 pts

16x spineguants
80 pts

16x spineguants
80 pts

16x spineguants
80 pts

Fast Attack:

1x Ravener w/ ST+RC
40 pts

1x Ravener w/ ST+RC
40 pts

1x Ravener w/ ST+RC
40 pts

Heavy Support:

3x Zoanthropes w/ Psychic Scream + Warp Blast
195 pts

1x Carnifex w/ ES + RC + FH + VC + BS
164 pts

1x Carnifex w/ ES + RC + FH + VC + BS
164 pts

Total:
1997 pts
4 TMCs
115 Other Gribblies

When casting your vote please be sure to either put the name of the winner you chose as the subject line of your post or put it in bold somewhere in the post, thanks!

Generals of the above armies, please post your tactics for the battle as soon as you are able!
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Well, this match up should not be too bad at all considering the only things in kore's list that is a even a moderate threat to my TMCs are the heavy D's. Once the heavy D's and the tomb spyders are gone my TMCs should be able to rule the game.

My horde will deploy as far forward as possible in order to press forward towards CC. I plan to advance as much of my gaunt swarm as possible through the forest in the center of the field in order to take advantage of cover saves. I will attempt to keep my Carnis surrounded by a gaunt screen, one in each side of the forest(within 6" of the edge), in order to prevent any attempt to swamp them in CC made by the scarabs. The tyrants will advance one on either side of the board in order to ensure that they have LoS on anything that tries to come up either boar edge. The warriors and zoans will advance with the horde as well, making sure to keep spread out in order to preserve synapse and once the rock formation on the top right is rounded 2 broods of gaunts, 1 zoan and a tyrant will move to the east in order to try and cut off that lane of travel and intercept any destroyers should Kore attempt to tubo boost past me. I wll attempt the same pincher move on the left with a tyrant, a zoan and some gaunts. During this whole time my entire force will still be rolling forwards with the warrios staying with the central body. I will deploy my raveners together on the left flank inside of the forest so that if any destroyers or veiling lord and immortals get within 19"-24" they will get eaten. Later they will move up using the left pincer as a shield and get around the lower left hand rock face to get the charge off on whatever seems juiciest or is hiding there.

The tyrants and fexes will concentrate fire on any of the tomb spyders that poke their heads out to start and after that or if they should not have LoS will fire on the heavy d's then the normal D's and immortals. The warriors and the zoans (using their AP3 blasts) will do their best to pop the heavy destroyers then move on to the normal d's, immortals and then finally the normal warriors. In the final turns the gaunts will swamp anything left in CC to await the coming of the WBB denying TMC CC attacks. With the lack of a res. orb in the list anything that goes down from my high strength fire or CC attacks is going to stay down.

Kill order will be Heavy D's > Tomb Spyders > normal D's + Immortals > warriors

The best part of this match is that kore will have to move towards my army to get the objective which will then bring his army within range of my psychic screams, devourers and assualt.
 

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I have enough mobility to not be concerned with getting across the field until late in the game. Conversely, the Nid army will be foot-slogging like any other army as they will be moving at the pace of the TMCs (reference to gaunt shield). If the Nids plan to have scoring units in the Necron DZ they will have to weather the grinder of Necron firepower.

Granted, my fast movers (Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, and Lord w/VoD) are high on his list of priorities. However, I will be protecting them as much as possible using cover or iSaves from turboboosting if their standard 12" move won't likely yield cover from the big guns. I am normally agressive with them but with so many squads that could catch them in CC I will hold off for a time. Thus they will be providing fire support for the Warriors and Immortals.

Tactics:
- Get all three Tomb Spyders into the center cover as quickly as possible to contect the forest way-station. This will force the advancing swarm to engage or stay out of the forest, leaving them open to mass Necron firepower.
- Scarabs will join the TSs in cover (benefitting from the Small Target rule) and await movement from the Raveners. As the Nids' only FA choice, their close proximity and subsequent movement will allow me intercept them easily when they make their move. I would anticipate my Scarabs overtaking the Raveners in CC with their multitude of Wounds and Attacks. At the bare minimum they will be tied up for the remainder of the game.
- Heavy Destoyers/Destroyers will use cover to hide from big guns while lending their firepower to thinning out the swarm. Turboboost will be used to provide iSaves as well as make last turn runs to the enemy DZ. If the TMCs are targetable by two or more of my squads, I will pour as much firepower into a single unit as necessary.
- The Warriors will stay out of LoS, as much as possible, from the big guns and pour Gauss into the oncoming swarm where it is visible.
- The Immortals will keep to the southern-most forest where it will lend to the grinder.
- The Lord will most likely be joined with a Warrior squad by turn 2 where it will use Solar Pulse for some protection. Afterwards, he will split off and make for the Immortals. Having IC status, he cannot be sniped and will surely make it back with ease. Depending on the Nid advance, he will eventually make a VoD move to the Nid DZ which, based upon the Nids' tactics, will be relatively empty.

My main goal is to limit the number of scoring units the Nids have by the time they get across the field. This should help me secure victory by denying the objective to the Nids. Using my mobility and resilience, I should be able to score enough objective VPs to pull the rug out from under the Nids. It will be close.
 

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Wow, this is a really tough one. But keeping the mission in mind...

I would have expected IA's nids to draw a phase out from Kore's Necrons, but based on the tactics, Kore won't let that happen. Seeing as the Necrons are hiding, and taking advantage of second turn to react and boost the really fast stuff in the final turns, I think that Kore can get the Destroyers into IA's zone, while just managing to keep IA out of his own.

It would be very very close, but I think the objective will go to...

KORE, ftw.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
remember that in order to shoot any of my models kore will then have to be in LoS of my models which then makes hiding rather hard. If Kore does plan to stay hidden then I would juts lke to point out the fact that he only has 6 mobile units in his entire army... in order for the warriors to get across the board they will have to come past my force which means some easy meat. I on the other hand have 16 scoring units, giving me a rather large advantage for getting across the board.

- Get all three Tomb Spyders into the center cover as quickly as possible to contect the forest way-station. This will force the advancing swarm to engage or stay out of the forest, leaving them open to mass Necron firepower.
I have no problem with your tomb spiders getting tied up in gaunts Kore and since as I stated before the only other thing I have to worry about are the heavy D's, I should be just fine.

Scarabs will join the TSs in cover (benefitting from the Small Target rule) and await movement from the Raveners. As the Nids' only FA choice, their close proximity and subsequent movement will allow me intercept them easily when they make their move. I would anticipate my Scarabs overtaking the Raveners in CC with their multitude of Wounds and Attacks. At the bare minimum they will be tied up for the remainder of the game.
interesting thought but I planned on keeping the raveners in place in the forest in the north for a few turns in order to get the charge on anything that decides to get past me as I said. and let's not forget that even should the scarabs turbo boost to get near my raveners they cannot charge on the same turn. Which allows me time to once again move away which may again require you to turbo boost them and gives me even more time to get them to your lines.

- Heavy Destoyers/Destroyers will use cover to hide from big guns while lending their firepower to thinning out the swarm. Turboboost will be used to provide iSaves as well as make last turn runs to the enemy DZ. If the TMCs are targetable by two or more of my squads, I will pour as much firepower into a single unit as necessary.
Why does cover matter in this case? The only one of my weapons that is aimed at you thart would allow you a cover save are the warp blasts, otherwise everthing else is high strength, large blast templates or rerolling to hit and to wound. Let us also not forget that my TMCs are with the swarm so if you can see my swarm then it is a good bet that my TMCs can see you. Once again, iSaves from turbo boosting do not matter as most of my shooting would allow you your saves anyways. It is the volume of fire that will get you, not the quality.

The Warriors will stay out of LoS, as much as possible, from the big guns and pour Gauss into the oncoming swarm where it is visible.
again, the TMCs are in with the swarm so, seeing swarm = being seen by Tyrants, Fexes, zoans and warriors...

Let's also not forget the psychic screams and pinning large blast templates... it will be hard for Kores Destroyers to make a run on my DZ if they are dead or pinned.
 

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interesting thought but I planned on keeping the raveners in place in the forest in the north for a few turns in order to get the charge on anything that decides to get past me as I said. and let's not forget that even should the scarabs turbo boost to get near my raveners they cannot charge on the same turn. Which allows me time to once again move away which may again require you to turbo boost them and gives me even more time to get them to your lines.
My Scarabs would only move reactively to the Raveners. If the Raveners stay in their DZ the whole game to avoid the Scarabs I would consider it an advantage to me. Eventually they will have to come out of hiding and move forward. Not only will they be subject to potential shooting, but the Scarabs will be poised to intercept when the time comes.

again, the TMCs are in with the swarm so, seeing swarm = being seen by TMCs...
Not necessarily. The swarm has huge numbers, in comparison, and will be bursting at the seams. With the center forest contested, they will be hard pressed to find viable cover to cross the divide.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Basically what I see you saying here Kore is that you plan to wear me down yet stay hidden for most of the game which is physically impossible.

If you go after the swarm you will be exposing yourself to shooting considering that I will have tyrants, Carnis, warriors and zoans mixed in with the masses.

My Scarabs would only move reactively to the Raveners. If the Raveners stay in their DZ the whole game to avoid the Scarabs I would consider it an advantage to me. Eventually they will have to come out of hiding and move forward. Not only will they be subject to potential shooting, but the Scarabs will be poised to intercept when the time comes.
luckily my raveners are in three separate units so keeping them far enough apart that you will only be able to charge one at best with the scarabs should not be overly hard. the same goes for shooting, they will require the attention of three squads in order to down them.
 

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luckily my raveners are in three separate units so keeping them far enough apart that you will only be able to charge one at best with the scarabs should not be overly hard. the same goes for shooting, they will require the attention of three squads in order to down them.
Your initial strategy has them together, moving in for a mid game pincer move. With the base sizes of the Raveners and the Scarabs it shouldn't be difficult to engage at least two of them. At the worst they form a screen that cannot be crossed. Having the faster units between the two armies, I can afford to play reactively while still having a shot at the objective.

Anyhow, I want to see some voting. One cannot get too detailed as the variables increase exponentially in hypothetical combat.
 

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Son of LO
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I really don't like this board because of just how hard it is to see things, but anyway.

I think the necrons have this one, true only the heavy destroyers are effective against the TMC's but NONE of the tyranid firepower is effective against necrons. And theres only 4 monsters after all, all of them spending the whole game shooting a useless venom cannon and sub-par barbed strangler/twin-devourer.

If spinegaunts come close they get rapid-fired out by warriors without a problem, from there they get beaten back in cc in 1 or 2 rounds, especially with no retreat.

Destroyers just won't be dying, they can hide from a few monsters and still have plenty of targets available to them because of sheer tyranids available. Ideally they'll be blowing apart warriors since they're such juicy targets.

The lord can also ferry a squad to the objective at the end of the game, whilst tyranids are basically guaranteed to have no-one scoring in the enemy zone. No chance spinegaunts will still be above 8 at the end and even if they are they aren't worth much points for the objective.

kore
 

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I think the necrons have this one, true only the heavy destroyers are effective against the TMC's but NONE of the tyranid firepower is effective against necrons.
Not that it has much to do with this game, but all Gauss cause a wound on a to-wound-roll of 6 regardless of Toughness.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If spinegaunts come close they get rapid-fired out by warriors without a problem, from there they get beaten back in cc in 1 or 2 rounds, especially with no retreat.
you forget that the TMCs are right there with the spineys so "getting beat back" now becomes TMCs and tyrant guard tearing up warrior units.

Destroyers just won't be dying, they can hide from a few monsters and still have plenty of targets available to them because of sheer tyranids available. Ideally they'll be blowing apart warriors since they're such juicy targets.
warriors will be advancing throught the area terrain in the center and will be benefitting from cover.
 

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Son of LO
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Unfortunately though the monstrous creatures won't be hitting cc until turn 4 minimum. That's at least 3 shooting phases from the necrons to really thin out numbers. Then the jetbike units and the veil can claim recon objective whilst the tyranids shouldn't have any scoring units in the deployment zone.

After all, 2 attacks isn't really that great in cc...especially with necron morale.

And every round everyone keeps reminding me of gauss rules :?. I lose to gauss with my eldar on a regular basis so I know damn well what it does. :p Necron's CAN hurt things but being effective against the targets? no they aren't. I wouldn't trust 12 bolters to bring down a carnifex (although my argument is also that the carnifex can't stop 12 warriors).
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
again I see people failing to look at the big picture here.

Unfortunately though the monstrous creatures won't be hitting cc until turn 4 minimum. That's at least 3 shooting phases from the necrons to really thin out numbers. Then the jetbike units and the veil can claim recon objective whilst the tyranids shouldn't have any scoring units in the deployment zone.
I will be advancing under cover and if he hides his destroyers from my TMCs like he said then I will have at least 900 points of scoring monstrous creature in his DZ at the end.

After all, 2 attacks isn't really that great in cc...especially with necron morale.
Psychic choir Link... up to a -5 to LD depending on how many tyrants and zoans are in range.

psychic choir + lots of shooting and pinning templates + losing CC = running enemies
 

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I think Kore has this one; his tactics are pretty solid, I believe Kore has yet to actually alter any of his initial tactics where IronAngel has done so several times. (No jab or anything intended IA, but your constant shifting of tactics where Kore has not makes me feel that his strategy is more sound.)

As LordLink pointed out before, the monstrous creatures need no less than four, if not five because of the swarms in front of them, turns in order to get into combat to do what they do best. In that time they do have to contend with four heavy destroyers and eight normal destroyers taking shots on any of those TMC's they can see. (Yes IA, you did say that they will be moving through cover, but you've also said that almost everything else will be doing that, its just that it is harder than you think to hide one hundred small bases, seventeen medium bases, and four large bases in the same set(s) of cover without any or a decent amount of them getting shot at.)

However the startoff is a bit in Kore's favour; going second allows him to react to IA's opening moves in any way he chooses, and his initial tactics are based on reacting to IA's nids and using the endgame turn to make what might have been a risky move if he was going forward.

The way I see it, Kore has the veil, over eight hundred points in very fast units, and the last player turn, all of which allow him to hang back until the last second for the chance to score loads and loads of points. On the other end of the board, IronAngel has none of those things, well he has some speed in the ravenors and gaunts but IA already said he was holding the ravenors back to stop the scarabs from taking all of them out.

If one of the tyrants were winged, or if all nine warriors were winged and could make it into combat faster, then things would be different because then IA could either hold the destroyers up or tear into some of the thirty six warriors, keeping more gaunts alive and able to pour in more attacks.

Also, aren't the tomb spiders like T7 with two or three attacks apiece? If a unit of gaunts were to engage them wouldn't they be unable to harm the thing and always lose combat because they would take 1-3 casualties a round? (and then additional wounds because they are fearless or something.)
 
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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I believe Kore has yet to actually alter any of his initial tactics where IronAngel has done so several times. (No jab or anything intended IA, but your constant shifting of tactics where Kore has not makes me feel that his strategy is more sound.)
My tactics have shifted once and this was simply to compensate for the fact that by posting his tactics second Kore has the upper hand as he gets to see what I am going to do before he decides what he is going to do...

I think it is only fair that anyone that posts their tactics first get to make adjustments.

As LordLink pointed out before, the monstrous creatures need no less than four, if not five because of the swarms in front of them, turns in order to get into combat to do what they do best. In that time they do have to contend with four heavy destroyers and eight normal destroyers taking shots on any of those TMC's they can see. (Yes IA, you did say that they will be moving through cover, but you've also said that almost everything else will be doing that, its just that it is harder than you think to hide one hundred small bases, seventeen medium bases, and four large bases in the same set(s) of cover without any or a decent amount of them getting shot at.)
I hate to say this again but any destroyers that can see my TMCs or even the swarm (I could move into LoS in my turn if I do not already have it. Will at least be seen by the TMC they are shooting at if not a good deal more of my shooty units and since TMCs are way more survivable than destroyers I see that shoot out goin in my favor with no contest.

As for moving through cover, when I made that statement before to Link it was in reference to my warriors. If you read my tactics post you will see that I plan to spread out around turn 3 to try and catch Kore in a net. Obviously the Nids that aren't in the forest won't benefit from cover.

If one of the tyrants were winged, or if all nine warriors were winged and could make it into combat faster, then things would be different because then IA could either hold the destroyers up or tear into some of the thirty six warriors, keeping more gaunts alive and able to pour in more attacks.
This is a shooty Nids list, yes... shooty nids can and do work better than normal nids lists in general. With 7 pie plates, 8 devourers, 2 venom cannons and 3 warp blasts my list is going to pump out an awful lot of fire power in those 4-5 turns it will take me to get across the board.
 

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I think it is only fair that anyone that posts their tactics first get to make adjustments.
While you are right, that whoever posts first probably should/will repost their strategy, it does not help all the time. (Having to change tactics kinda feels like the other person has more stable tactics, the fact that Kore has not altered any part of his tactics lends to this.)

My tactics have shifted once and this was simply to compensate for the fact that by posting his tactics second Kore has the upper hand as he gets to see what I am going to do before he decides what he is going to do...
My apologies IA, you have only altered your overall tactics once so far; its your ravenor tactics that have been altered more than once. (You started with them together on the left flank, then split them into three seperate units, and then spaced them out so they all couldn't be tied up in combat by scarabs.)

With 7 pie plates, 8 devourers, 2 venom cannons and 3 warp blasts my list is going to pump out an awful lot of fire power in those 4-5 turns it will take me to get across the board.
Seven pie plates, of which three are with your warriors who are going to be moving through line of sight area terrain for about half the game, two more which are on your fex's who have, at best, a 50% chance of hitting something. Two venom cannons, again on a pair of units that only have, at best, aa 50% chance to hit; and then those three warp blasts on your zoans, which you have already stated will be using the stronger, shorter ranged version of the power.

You do have a large number of fairly powerful guns that could pump out an awful lot o fire power, but your tactics hinder a fair amount of it as does range on some of it.


This is a shooty Nids list, yes... shooty nids can and do work better than normal nids lists in general.
Shooty flyrant or shooty flying warriors still fits the shooty theme while being able to hurt in combat; just cause its shooty doesn't mean it has to be slow...:C
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
While you are right, that whoever posts first probably should/will repost their strategy, it does not help all the time. (Having to change tactics kinda feels like the other person has more stable tactics, the fact that Kore has not altered any part of his tactics lends to this.)
but again, why would he need to? He posted his tactics second...

its your ravenor tactics that have been altered more than once. (You started with them together on the left flank, then split them into three seperate units, and then spaced them out so they all couldn't be tied up in combat by scarabs.)
I did not split them into three separate units... They are three separate units, take a look at my army list and you will see this. The plan has always been to start with them on the left flank, leave them there for the first 2 turns or so then run them up behind the gaunt / tyrant / zoan screen. Keeping them spaced a decent distance apart is less tactics and more of a gameplay decision.

Seven pie plates, of which three are with your warriors who are going to be moving through line of sight area terrain for about half the game
Who can still see out if within 6" of the edge and if they are not then that is a large chunk of scoring units that is getting to his DZ unmolested.

two more which are on your fex's who have, at best, a 50% chance of hitting something. Two venom cannons, again on a pair of units that only have, at best, aa 50% chance to hit;
well yeah... those are fexes for you. I should get 2 venom cannon shots and 1 barbed strangler shot per turn from the pair.

and then those three warp blasts on your zoans, which you have already stated will be using the stronger, shorter ranged version of the power.
actually if you reread you will see that I said they will be using the longer ranged blast aspect of the power.

Again, I feel like people keep misreading / ignoring apsects of both my list and tactics. Again my psychic screams will be golden here as getting them in range should not be hard and once they are in range most of his army should be pinned or running.
 

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The Allmighty Chaos Boots
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IronAngel wins the choir pins everything and the TMCs will be invincible early in the game everything then there is the issue of the guants too many to be killed they can tie down whatever needs to be tied down.

IA can't loose this one.
 

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Son of LO
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Hmmm, I forgot about the psychic choir, that means tyranids will quickly win most cc's containing anything bigger than a gaunt.

When I have more time I'll re-analayze it, gotta rush now. :)

Although I'm still not certain tyranid shooting will be all that effective, multiple heavy destroyers have guns that will on average wound a carnifex. A venom cannon/barbed strangler can't boast reliable accuracy, armour penetration or breaking WBB.

EDIT: on second thought...carnifex venom cannons do go through WBB on destroyers. I'll have to rethink that too.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
it's good to know that I have forced some thought, please don't forget that psychic screams also work well in conjunction with the 7 pinning templates that I have as well as the fact that the fex mounted stranglers will deny WBB for warriors and immortals.
 
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