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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some of this relates to all armies, but I just re-read through the main rules and the ork codex, and found three things I wasn't aware of, all of which affect orks negatively:

1. Walkers (Killa Kans, Deff Dreads) suffer from the no-retreat rule in close combat. Instead of taking wounds, they take glancing hits instead. Granted, it only happens when they lose combat, but if it happens, it's devastating. Your unit of kans, or single dread, could easily take as many as 3 glancing hits a turn! I was not aware of this.

2. Kustom mega blastas don't get any extra armor penetration. For some reason I thought they did, like melta or lance weapons. As it stands, it's a slightly cheaper rokkit with better AP, that gets hot. I know this isn't too significant, but this limits the orks to only two guns that can penetrate armor 14, and they both have variable 2d6 strength (SAG and Zzzap). I get the feeling that when 5th edition rules come out, a lot of ork players are going to being assaulting vehicles direclty (either with tankbusta bombs, powerklaws, wrecking balls, or dethrollas) a lot more often.

3. If you shoot out the fire points of a vehicle that is not open topped, unless the passengers have 2+ or 3+ armor, the vehicle counts as open-topped until next turn. This all but eliminates any reason to ever take the 'ard case option, unless you have no intention of using the vehicle as a transport. What's the point if it's going to be considered open topped anyway when you shoot out of it?

Well, I just thought I'd share this, in case anyone else wasn't aware of some of these things.
 

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Nah knew those already except for the Kustom Blasta rule. I never liked walkers anyway so will not take any in my Ork army, the open topped thing doesn't bother me as I was going to have all my vehicles open topped, but the blasta thing is a pain. But cheaper rocket launchas is nice so I'll take 2 Meks with them in my squad of 10 burnas (8 + 2 meks). Less useful for Lootas however, best not bother with Meks with them.

In my last 500 point game, the only way I took out even a Rhino was by assaulting it with a slugga squad with Power Klaw!! My Rockitts were been saved for getting past Marine armour! Assaulting vehicles ftw, so I hope that the Deff Rolla becomes more useful in the future......unless anyone can convince me its really useful now....... ;-)
 

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Hard to argue with a Deff Rolla really, IMHO.

You ram/tank shock/rollover whatever is in your way and if a unit or vehicle is in your way, they take D^ hits at the highest strength around. Not too many transport vehicles can stand up to that.

It is phenomenal if you get a good line. You can cause major havoc with it, especially against other vehicle based armies.

I like to put 4 Big Shootas on it to make it able fire away as it goes. Seems pretty dakka-licious to me. Throw on Red Paint Job and armor plates, and now you have a crazy good transport to go forth, spew out a horde of boyz, and then proceed to wreak havoc on the enemy.

Pretty cheap for what it is really. I am in the process of making my 2nd Deff Rolla. Can't wait to have 2 on the table. It is one more way to not have to rely on orky shooting.
 

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I have to admit that setup sounds tasty and I do like the fluff of a Deff Rolla. Rules wise D6 STR 10 hits is nasty I admit and re-rolling dangerous terrain tests so you can storm through cover is nice also.

My only concern when I said are Deff Rollas useful is the chances of them getting killed. The opponent is likely to make such a battlewagon a first target. 14 armour is nice and all but side armour can get hit by a few things and the Tau will make short work of the tank! I'll probably get one anyway because I need something harder than a Looted Wagon for transporting Burna Boyz about and the prospect of running over my opponents army is too much fun to pass up. The meks in the squad save me requiring Grot Riggers also! :)

Can you tank shock vehicles though like you said? I wasn't aware you could do that. But I've got the rulebook waiting for me at the local post depot so I'll have a gander! :p
 

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Blood Axe
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Just remember that those Kans and Dreds have to be outnumbered 2:1 (and they have a US of 5 and 10 respectively), so it's not necessarily an easy task to hit them with a bunch of glances.
 

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You can definitely move vehicles out of the way if your armor value is higher. That means, through my understanding and the understanding of the FLGS I play at, if you move the vehicle out of the way through your rush, you are going to inflict said amount of hits. There are very few things that can stand in your path. Monoliths, land raiders, other battlewagons, etc.. I know what you mean about the BW getting targeted. I look at this in two ways.
  1. Since units are targeting that, it means other units are NOT getting targeted. This allows for more fragile units to survive and opponents to have to make targeting decisions.
  2. It is an orky open-topped vehicle. It will not live forever anyway. Might as well take full advantage with it and use it full bore whenever you get the chance. Personally, I would pack a full unit of Ard Boyz, MANz, or even Nobz into it. That way if/when it gets destroyed, the unit inside has a good chance of surviving and is that much closer to the enemy. (I am always tempted to put burnaz/tankbustaz inside, but they still suffer from orky thin armor and no ramshackle on the BW.)
Run that rolla to your orky hearts content!!! I look forward to hearing how it works.
 

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Just remember that those Kans and Dreds have to be outnumbered 2:1 (and they have a US of 5 and 10 respectively), so it's not necessarily an easy task to hit them with a bunch of glances.
Orks can make this an issue with just one unit (must have a nob with a PK or Big Choppa). I think Black Templar can as well if they have a hidden fist. Technically a platoon of guard could do it since they are "one" unit. What other armies in the game have one unit that could both "wound" AND outnumber a dread 2:1? I am aware that multiple units could lead up to a dread both losing combat & being outnumbered, but it is interesting to think about what individual units could do so.

Let me know what you think.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kinda

Can you tank shock vehicles though like you said? I wasn't aware you could do that. But I've got the rulebook waiting for me at the local post depot so I'll have a gander! :p
I should have clarified, that's one of the rumors I've heard for 5th edition. It's definitely not confirmed, but I heart that vehicles will be able to ram other vehicles, but as it stands now, you'd need either a wrecking ball or deff rolla to do it.
 

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Translation:

Since it is still 4th edition, Deff Roll the hell out of all possible opponents!!!

Once 5th edition rolls around, then ram them land raiders with your trukks (after you drop off the boys)!!!
 

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I wasn't aware of the first point, that really does suck. I was aware of the other points though. Even with ard case the firepoints are direction limiting anyway. I take ard case for non-transports or for ones that can't shoot often anyway (like a full burna squad)
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Us?

Just remember that those Kans and Dreds have to be outnumbered 2:1 (and they have a US of 5 and 10 respectively), so it's not necessarily an easy task to hit them with a bunch of glances.
I know that dreads count as 10 models because they have an armor value of 12 (or at least that's what I've been told), but what about kans? I haven't read/heard anything that suggests they count as anything more than 1 model each. It's definitely possible, I just haven't heard that before. Is it true?

Despite this, all you have to do is roll poorly to hit, and you could still very well lose combat, especially if the kans/dread have joined in a close combat already in progress. Being outnumbered at the very least 2 to 1 happens more often than you might think, and that could mean a glancing hit every single round of combat for your walkers, and that's not good.

I still like the kans and dreads, but this might change how I use them in close combat.
 

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2. Kustom mega blastas don't get any extra armor penetration. For some reason I thought they did, like melta or lance weapons. As it stands, it's a slightly cheaper rokkit with better AP, that gets hot. I know this isn't too significant, but this limits the orks to only two guns that can penetrate armor 14, and they both have variable 2d6 strength (SAG and Zzzap). I get the feeling that when 5th edition rules come out, a lot of ork players are going to being assaulting vehicles direclty (either with tankbusta bombs, powerklaws, wrecking balls, or dethrollas) a lot more often.
Well, in 5th I know how I'll be doing my tank killing, that is if the rumor of ramming coming back happens. I'll be slamming trukks into tanks all day, they're fast enough to get to rear armor, and if they move their full movement it's a S8 hit from ramming, with little reason not to. If I were to ram a land raider it'd be useless, but predators, falcons, rear of Lemans, it's completely useful. So 5th isn't a worry for me as far as tank killings go.
 

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LO Zealot
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks

That any vehicle with armor value 10-11 counts as 5 models, and any 12+ counts as 10 models. It should be in the section about morale modifiers for outnumering in CC I believe.
Thanks, I just didn't notice that. It can still hurt, especially in large combats, but at least it isn't crippling.
 
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