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40k 5th edition starter set

Ok can anyone tell me when will it come out. And what two armies will be in it i know one will be space marines
 

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I would also expect SM and Orks. Will probably coincide with a new SM codex release, which I guess most of us could probably write now going off the DA and BA codices.
The only thing against it being Orks is they've had a brand new codex out, with brand new minis, so why use them?
That said I can't see it being anyone else now Tyranids and Dark Eldar have had their moment in the sun.

Tau would be cool :)
 

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I've heard it si going to be Orks, which would actually make since with the new codex out, as it will help promote more people moving to Orks. Rumours are even abound of a palstic Killa Kan.
 

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Orks are quite likely I would imagine as

a) they're clearly 'alien' so are n00b-friendly when it comes to understanding the game world, hence the choice of macragge as the setting for the current starter set, what with the bugs n all.

b) they're a horde army. On the off chance that the person who picks it up doesn't end up playing space marines (we can only hope) then they'll have to spend LOTS of money getting more models, which makes GW a happy company.

c) with the new rules, they're actually quite good! but no so good as to make GW's poster boy marines look lame. you know whatever they include HAS to die horribly to basic bolter fire.

d) it has been mentioned that 2008 will be a 'green' year, indicating that there are more releases for orks planned, be it plastic kans or whatever.

The only bad point for including orks vs marines is that if they include something similar to the 3rd ed. box set for marines, a tactical squad and a speeder for instance (a rhino would be better IMHO for the transport rules etc.) then the orks will get roughly twice as many models for the points. If GW balance the box set from a game perspective. Fat chance.

Anyone the remember the 3rd ed. box set? those poor, poor DE. 20 of them, with what, oooh, SPLINTER CANNONS. the marines were about, ooh, a whole landspeeder ahead!
 

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Orks are quite likely I would imagine as

a) they're clearly 'alien' so are n00b-friendly when it comes to understanding the game world, hence the choice of macragge as the setting for the current starter set, what with the bugs n all.

b) they're a horde army. On the off chance that the person who picks it up doesn't end up playing space marines (we can only hope) then they'll have to spend LOTS of money getting more models, which makes GW a happy company.

c) with the new rules, they're actually quite good! but no so good as to make GW's poster boy marines look lame. you know whatever they include HAS to die horribly to basic bolter fire.

d) it has been mentioned that 2008 will be a 'green' year, indicating that there are more releases for orks planned, be it plastic kans or whatever.

The only bad point for including orks vs marines is that if they include something similar to the 3rd ed. box set for marines, a tactical squad and a speeder for instance (a rhino would be better IMHO for the transport rules etc.) then the orks will get roughly twice as many models for the points. If GW balance the box set from a game perspective. Fat chance.

Anyone the remember the 3rd ed. box set? those poor, poor DE. 20 of them, with what, oooh, SPLINTER CANNONS. the marines were about, ooh, a whole landspeeder ahead!
You forgot:

e) they have no saves against bolters

Has anyone else noticed that the starter sets are always marines vs d00ds with no saves against bolters?
 

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I guess I'm just out of the loop (our GW closed just recently. They actually mentioned that
it was due to changes in the company and that within the next 3-4 years it would be back in
a new location in Arizona)... but when is 5th edition coming out? That mean I have to buy a
new rulebook now? :3

-Nik
 

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An idea... and long.

Considering that I have been playing as long as I do, I feel that a new version is not really worth it right now, without a clear gutting and beating of the current rules. I'll speak to rumors as to army inclusions well, but also the rules and where I think they need to be changed... read if you like, complain if you must... but actually give a point as opposed to just sneering and giving me bad rep like a bunch of frenchmen.

In 2003-04 school year, I purchased the new set of rules for Warhammer 40,000 and picked up a Battle for Macragge set for the sake of camp value. I already owned at that point a sizeable dark angel force and my imperial guard army, which was at about half size. I really wanted the cute dice, templates, the nice smashed space ship and several spore mines... I had a use for these models. I didnt at the time have more than one half made box of termagaunts and thought it would be lovely to start a small tyranid force for my space marines and imperial guard to smash with their big brawny bolters and piddly flashlights. Macragge had a fair number of models for the 45 (36.50) that was paid for the box, but it came with a caveat. The models were crap. Simply crap.

go ahead and bluster, spill your tea, etc. but thats what they were, they were filtrated, useless, peg-models. I should have known that GW would not include a quality product in that quantity in any box, even if Zeus himself threatened Kirby with a lightning-bolt enema. It is against the company's nature to do anything of that sort... it is the same reason why you do not find pictures of games workshop characters hugging puppies and kissing babies... they are too busy gunning them down and the bolter ammunition apparently costs money and this in effect makes us deal with the price "adjustments" which result in us paying more for things we need to play while paying less for .... well... .I cant think of anything yet. Can you? Didnt think so.

So This box emerged, I got it, and the little booklet is great for warhammer commode reading... being that I had the big book, I can tell you that they would have been better off letting fanboys and non-GW staff submitting ideas for photos, etc. At best I found the picture section to be about as inspired as britney's attempts to get the kids back.

The rules were my true sticking point however, and I will say that I was fervently sickened by the honestly, good to god, bastardized assault rules, and generally dumbed down. I still cannot understand how my space marines cannot charge out of their rhino and charge immediately after exiting... I was assuming that the machinery in the tank did the moving for the marines, apparently GW put in the "fred flintstone" foot peddling engine and by the time the marines get where they are going they need a breather outside of the vehicle under enemy fire prior to assaulting the enemy obviously bent on their demise... This was just one of my complaints at the time. My friend and I wrote a short letter to GW asking them if they allowed trained monkeys to write the rules or was it someone on their staff that just wants to mae the game more friendly to the 10 and under crowd because the staff at the stores wanted to have more chances to hit on/poke around with wealthy soccer MILFs while their hideous progeny poke around the blister packs/boxes, etc. Needless to say, we didnt receive a response, because such a courtesy would be unheard of, like OJ simpson opening the door and pulling out nicole and ron goldman's chairs before shanking them like a lamb in an afghan party.

This box was followed by a space marine codex and (re)release of the marines in (GASP) the exact same sprues they originated in... I purchased a captain... that was it... and hnestly, the metal ones were better.... I'm sure that someone got a kick out of the three bitz added per box, but it wasnt worth the extra 5 dollars american they decided to throttle us out of to get it. This was followed by a total bastardization of my beloved dark angels with a less than inspired codex, and a soon to be sufficiently additionally uninspired "jacked up" blood angel's codex (dont forget the accompanying raise in price, I'll bet on an extra 5, and a lowering of the number of models.. ala Empire and every other army in fantasy)

Now, as a segway here, for those still reading, last year I saw the battle for black pass, and knowing exactly what i was getting into I purchased 3 of the boxes at a less than standard (screw me over) price in order to build a large secondary goblin and dwarf forces for my huge undead army to fight. I'm still painting the ugly one piece buggers, but I got exactly what I wanted... a bunch of cheap crap to cast magic spells on... they are the Cobra to my.... Cobra...


Needless to say, you can see that I am less than excited for another box, another raise in price, and another badly made set of one piece models to purchase that will be obviously inferior to the newer, shinier models.. or the ones already released. Once again, the stalwart over done space marines will shoot their bolters at a save-less creature and kill lots of them, making the spacemarine player buy more of the said marines of space whilst the ork player (usually a secondary player, doing it for the sake of doing it for a friend) beginning to hate the game unless he has some sort of fetish for losing and getting beaten... My point in all this is.. SSDD (to avoid the further curtailing of my rights, Ill let you cheery folks holding torches and ready to lynch me figure that one out for themselves)

So lets all say hey, hooray and make GW richer, since we'll buy MARINEHAMMER 40,000 again... to watch them kill orks... But before you finish pressing the plastic GW, do the following:

1. Fix the assault rules.... realism is key here... or just tell us that the marines are turning a big milling stone make the game more friendly to all players and not just the tweens with the MILF moms.
2. While you are at it.. take the chaos codex, read it, then hit yourself in the face with a ball peen hammer, go back to the drawing board, and give us that have chaos cult armies our rules, and our different god based demons... I have no need for girls gone wild nor for loyalist marines gone naughty... I mean seriously, WTF GW Blackheart? Huron? Sounds like a pissed off native american pirate/warchief with a jump pack, its offensive, upsetting, and you basically defecated (again using the scientific terminology, take that censors!) all over a great army and watered down what was an excellent codex... I still play 3rd edition marines in my house....
3. Apocalypse is a nice way for the Son of a Saudi Prince to have a reason to spend his 10 M per month rapidly... I like the IDEA... but honestly, in practice its ridiculously convoluted.... back to the drawing board with you.

My conclusion: This version may have potential, if they hammer out some new rules that make this game friendly to ALL areas of players, ensure some degree of balance before you become EA GAMES, and for god sakes: PLAYTEST with someone outside of seven year olds and the design team who's heads are so far up their rears that the lump in their throats are their noses.

Im done... here comes the hate.
 

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What he said.

Seriously though, I personally think they need to sort their priorities out and more importantly(maybe) actually involve the people who are spewing out money for their products.

Oh and by the way, has anyone noticed that the Huron model looks like a pervert? It's just that hand looks like it's about to grab...well, something.


P.s. I'm in a sour mood, hence the sudden outrage
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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I guess I'm just out of the loop (our GW closed just recently. They actually mentioned that
it was due to changes in the company and that within the next 3-4 years it would be back in
a new location in Arizona)... but when is 5th edition coming out? That mean I have to buy a
new rulebook now? :3

-Nik

You're from Arizona? Beatiful state! But I must admit - the late night trukkies are insane!! I was driving through there on my way to the Grand Canyon about 3 1/2 weeks ago, must admit it was one of the worst roads i've ever been on.

It was actually built pretty well, but man, 75 mph speed limit (this for someone who had never driven on the ungodly right hand side of the road before), and lots of 18 wheelers who ALL speed! And no 55 mph limit on those monsters either. Plus the cold outside and icy, man, talk about me being paranoid (especially with my gf asleep next to me).

Grand canyon was awesome though! Well worth the trip! :)

Still, to get back on topic, time to play Devil's advocate and look at things from the other side:

Considering that I have been playing as long as I do, I feel that a new version is not really worth it right now, without a clear gutting and beating of the current rules. I'll speak to rumors as to army inclusions well, but also the rules and where I think they need to be changed... read if you like, complain if you must... but actually give a point as opposed to just sneering and giving me bad rep like a bunch of frenchmen.

In 2003-04 school year, I purchased the new set of rules for Warhammer 40,000 and picked up a Battle for Macragge set for the sake of camp value. I already owned at that point a sizeable dark angel force and my imperial guard army, which was at about half size. I really wanted the cute dice, templates, the nice smashed space ship and several spore mines... I had a use for these models. I didnt at the time have more than one half made box of termagaunts and thought it would be lovely to start a small tyranid force for my space marines and imperial guard to smash with their big brawny bolters and piddly flashlights. Macragge had a fair number of models for the 45 (36.50) that was paid for the box, but it came with a caveat. The models were crap. Simply crap.
Yeah, this is true. The mini's in the core box are no where as good quality as the stand alone ones, but still - I feel that it IS a pretty good buy for a young newb just starting out. Certainly easier than buying all those mini's individually (regardless of quality), as well as the dice, the templates, the SAME PRICE large rulebook, and the terrain.

go ahead and bluster, spill your tea, etc. but thats what they were, they were filtrated, useless, peg-models. I should have known that GW would not include a quality product in that quantity in any box, even if Zeus himself threatened Kirby with a lightning-bolt enema. It is against the company's nature to do anything of that sort... it is the same reason why you do not find pictures of games workshop characters hugging puppies and kissing babies... they are too busy gunning them down and the bolter ammunition apparently costs money and this in effect makes us deal with the price "adjustments" which result in us paying more for things we need to play while paying less for .... well... .I cant think of anything yet. Can you? Didnt think so.
It's actually pretty difficult to make really high quality miniatures and still manage to fit them on small sprues and into a small enough box that you will actually sell. Why do you think it took so long for the Ork release to come out? They were having trouble with the trukk sprues, the thing was WAY too big for a normal box, and they had to make it fit somehow. I've heard rumours that its the same problem with the STOMPA that might come out sometime...

...I think they did pretty well, considering...

So This box emerged, I got it, and the little booklet is great for warhammer commode reading... being that I had the big book, I can tell you that they would have been better off letting fanboys and non-GW staff submitting ideas for photos, etc. At best I found the picture section to be about as inspired as britney's attempts to get the kids back.
Fair enough...

The rules were my true sticking point however, and I will say that I was fervently sickened by the honestly, good to god, bastardized assault rules, and generally dumbed down. I still cannot understand how my space marines cannot charge out of their rhino and charge immediately after exiting... I was assuming that the machinery in the tank did the moving for the marines, apparently GW put in the "fred flintstone" foot peddling engine and by the time the marines get where they are going they need a breather outside of the vehicle under enemy fire prior to assaulting the enemy obviously bent on their demise... This was just one of my complaints at the time. My friend and I wrote a short letter to GW asking them if they allowed trained monkeys to write the rules or was it someone on their staff that just wants to mae the game more friendly to the 10 and under crowd because the staff at the stores wanted to have more chances to hit on/poke around with wealthy soccer MILFs while their hideous progeny poke around the blister packs/boxes, etc. Needless to say, we didnt receive a response, because such a courtesy would be unheard of, like OJ simpson opening the door and pulling out nicole and ron goldman's chairs before shanking them like a lamb in an afghan party.
I'm not surprised you didn't recieve a response - you didn't really do them a courtesy either, by wrapping your possibly valid questions in insults.

This box was followed by a space marine codex and (re)release of the marines in (GASP) the exact same sprues they originated in... I purchased a captain... that was it... and hnestly, the metal ones were better.... I'm sure that someone got a kick out of the three bitz added per box, but it wasnt worth the extra 5 dollars american they decided to throttle us out of to get it. This was followed by a total bastardization of my beloved dark angels with a less than inspired codex, and a soon to be sufficiently additionally uninspired "jacked up" blood angel's codex (dont forget the accompanying raise in price, I'll bet on an extra 5, and a lowering of the number of models.. ala Empire and every other army in fantasy)
I must admit, I kinda feel the same way about these releases, although i'll defend it a tiny bit further on down my post.

Also, the changes in the codex's, whilst I agree that it felt like the DA have been bastardised, in reality its not too bad - they never were much of a different chapter form the vanilla, apart from a few things that are still mostly there, like deathwing, ravenwing, and the fact that all their characters are now fearless. Sure, the vanilla chapters can now do a lot of things that previously only the DA's could do, but thats kinda cool in its own way - I like variety, and the more different armies out there the better. But all this bit is kinda my own opinion only, so hey...


Now, as a segway here, for those still reading, last year I saw the battle for black pass, and knowing exactly what i was getting into I purchased 3 of the boxes at a less than standard (screw me over) price in order to build a large secondary goblin and dwarf forces for my huge undead army to fight. I'm still painting the ugly one piece buggers, but I got exactly what I wanted... a bunch of cheap crap to cast magic spells on... they are the Cobra to my.... Cobra...
Man, that box deal is a pretty good one, I must admit. So long as you know what you are getting into - perhaps you should have looked at the 40K box for a little longer before grabbing one?




Im done... here comes the hate.

No...No hate from me. Just a little puzzlement.

Whilst many of your thoughts here do have a lot of merit, I pose a question for you - you do realise that a company that sells no merchandise dies, right? And that if you don't realease new stuff to replace the old, then you wont be selling any more merchandise, yeah?

GW NEEDS to release new stuff. When you get right down to it, they are a company. They have some pretty good ideals, as far as that goes, and they provide we gamers with a fantastic product when all is said and done. But if they don't bring out new editions and new miniatures, they wont sell things, and as I said, that would mean the death of the company.

Which, you must admit, would be pretty bad for all of us.

As an aside, I dont mind all these updates and rules changes etc... Some changes are annoying, and seem unthought through, and some are downright stupid, but on the whole, most seem good, and they keep the game dynamic. When you feel like you've played against every type of army, and know how to handle each situation (at least, theoretically), its refreshing to come up against a seemingly unbeatable ork horde/trukk army, as it makes you pause and think, and play the game differently again!

Anyway, there's my 2 aussie cents, which (seeing as the lowest coin we have is a 5 cent piece) must be rounded down to zero. But there it is nonetheless.
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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Cadaver Junkie wins my favorite post of the week award.

Nicely put.

-t.

Cheers mate. :)

Yeah, I hear this stuff a lot, and I'm sure most other people too, but I feel its a little unfair without putting yourself in the other guys shoes, to use a well worn cliche.
 

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Cadaver,

I appreciate your response and honestly agree with alot of what you have to say. A company has to release products to stay afloat... but what that statement fails to speak of is the quality of the product. The models are often quite lovely, Take the spawn for instance, its a gorgeous, well created model (as lovely as a spawn can be) however, it's rules make it totally useless. The possessed marines... SAME thing. Making a burly model is not the only consideration, its also making the model worth buying... and all the 'eavy metal pics in the world cant make a competitive or friendly player buy models at premium rate that are useless.

BFM was the catalyst of the model inferiority issue. Noob boxes are exactly that, Noob boxes, but from an economic sense, it creates a great deal of price shock when you get ONE good deal and the next one is considerably more expensive... we are selling models here, not heroin, but GW seems intent on using this particular industry's tactic. You say "Regardless of quality" I disagree though, in their preamble to their annual financial statement they say they make HIGH QUALITY WARGAMING MINIATURES. This is my only real beef with BFM. I wanted a bunch of tyranid crap, i got just that. Tyranid crap. They were not of the quality or number of the cheaper (At the time prior to subout, and in all honesty superior) 3rd edition genestealers (12 for 30).

Also, compared to their prior starter sets, the 3rd ed with the DE and SM, the current one and the alleged upcoming one (if the status quo continues) are flat out garbade. 3rd Ed and 2d ed were by FAR the best that they put out...

Im not saying that it is a horrible "die die" box.. but it is a substantial drop in quality.... to hell with the price of it, its quality that I concern myself with, and im sorry, but i honestly found the characterful, badly posed, dark eldar models or million gobbos of prev editions to have more appeal than the green toy soldier posing of the marines in the current, and likely upcoming box.

RE: Dark Angels, Blood angels, chaos, and the homogenization of the various armies

We both see eye to eye here, Ill say this however, you say that the change is that the vanilla marines can do somethings that only DA could do before, and this is exactly my problem... why on earth am I going to spend 20% more for DA when they are limited in their differences... this is the same thing I ask as I painstakingly put together and convert my slaaneshi marines between posts and class.... WHY ARE THEY DUMBING THIS DOWN SO MUCH?!?!?! WHY GOD WHY!?!?

I believe that there is a degree of pride that goes into making your models, and I hope you, as a fellow gamer agree... and making a special kind of marine, be it feathers and robes clan-like DA, or wolves (amazingly untouched thus far, thank God), or my plaguemarines, mostly converts with 2 full "official models for PM, or the now being constructed EC... these armies have a certain character and feel to it... to eliminate my ability, and every other experienced players ability to add character, play a slant, etc. is counterproductive... bc now according to 4th ed dex, my GREAT UNCLEAN ONES are just "Greater demon" my plaguemarines dont have a recognized cult set of rules that are currently official.. what does exist however, is a substantially similar to loyalists "spiky naughty i went emo marine" variety that has now inhabited the chaos codex. Its as if I fell asleep and they decided to inject ultramarine-dopamine directly into my spine.

GW has a lot in common with microsoft in that they both rest their laurels on a once great product that has gone effectively downhill as time goes on... which is sad and alarming, eg. Halo 1 awesome, Halo 2 eh, Halo 3 was crap.

40K 2d - good 3rd Great 4th eh.... I really dont want to see/predict 5th crap... but christ its looking that way....

They can start by realizing that POISONED ATTACKS SHOULD NOT HARM THE UNDEAD/Crons... and move from there....

I do put myself in the other man's shoes... they are slipping, and these shoes are old, expensive, and need new laces, insoles.... and maybe some odor eaters.
 

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Cadaver,

I appreciate your response and honestly agree with alot of what you have to say. A company has to release products to stay afloat... but what that statement fails to speak of is the quality of the product. The models are often quite lovely, Take the spawn for instance, its a gorgeous, well created model (as lovely as a spawn can be) however, it's rules make it totally useless. The possessed marines... SAME thing. Making a burly model is not the only consideration, its also making the model worth buying... and all the 'eavy metal pics in the world cant make a competitive or friendly player buy models at premium rate that are useless.
Hmm - as an aside, I feel that most people under-value the spawn, I mean, it's a cheap scoring unit that can distract the enemy for a turn or two. Pretty useful in my book.

And about gorgeous models, I feel that that issue is more important than the rules. No one would buy space marines if they looked like badly made barbi dolls. Well...some people might, but probably not the majority of the target audience

Most people I know buy the mini's they want 'cos they look cool. True, this is highly moderated by the mini's effectiveness on the battlefield, but nonetheless...

The rest of your post deserves a proper response from me, and I probably dont have the time to do it justice, but I promise I'll get onto it when I can. At work atm, and then have a full weekend, but yeah.
 
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Sounds good buddy, this is the kind of groundbreaking talk they need to put on daytime american TV, rather than the "who's the baby's father" crap they put on from 8 am to primetime. LOL

Look forward to hearing the rest of the response.

Adios.
 
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