Librarium Online Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Now with STFU flames!
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type - Cleanse

Necrons

Headquarters – 300 points
Necron Lord:
Resurrection Orb; Staff of Light

Necron Lord:
Resurrection Orb; Staff of Light; Gaze of flame; Disruption Field

Troops – 1080 points
Necron Warriors Squad – Twenty (20) men
Twenty (20) armed with Gauss Flayers

Necron Warriors Squad – Twenty (20) men
Twenty (20) armed with Gauss Flayers

Necron Warriors Squad – Twenty (20) men
Twenty (20) armed with Gauss Flayers

Heavy Support – 470 points
Monolith:
Gauss Flux Arc; Living Metal

Monolith:
Gauss Flux Arc; Living Metal

Phase Out = 15 models

Strategy:
VS shooting armies, Deep Strike monoliths when possible, advance warriors under res-orb, when monoliths arrive, teleport warriors close, and doubletap/charge depending.

VS CC armies, keep monoliths on board, fire at charging enemy, when they reach CC, teleport warriors out and rapid fire again.

------------------------------------------
Lord Kharnate’s Grand Assembly
World Eaters

Headquarters – 375 points
Chaos Lord Kharnate:
Mark of Khorne; Daemonic Stature; Daemonic Resilience; Daemonic Essence; Daemonic Strength; Berserker Glaive; Feel No Pain

Bloodthirster:
Monstrous Creature; Wings; Living Icon; Khornate Frenzy

Troops – 955 points
Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven (7) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Daemonic Vessel; Talisman of Burning Blood; Chainaxe and Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven (7) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Talisman of Burning Blood

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Talisman of Burning Blood

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Melta Bombs; Talisman of Burning Blood

Heavy Support – 520 points
Defiler:
Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Indirect Fire

Chaos Predator:
Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Twin-linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons; Extra Armour

Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Twin-linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons; Extra Armour

Tactics:
Race up and blood rage all the way (hopefully) thanks to the Talismans of Burning Blood. The lord will remain near the troops if there are railguns so he cant be shot at. If not he will race up and tie up shooty units while the rest of the army adavances. Once close enough, up pops the bloodthirster and if even more cc support is needed the defilers there. Enemy armour will be taken care of as there are 2 monstorous creatures 2 predators, defiler and each aspiring champion has a power fist.
 

·
Slave to the flesh
Joined
·
4,330 Posts
World eaters

Though I would like the necrons to win, the amount of CC that the WE can do will hold the necrons up and stall their advance, sure the monoliths will balance that out but the phase out is just too high.

If the bloodthirster gets close enough to the monoliths he will not have too hard a job of killing one, if not both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,912 Posts
The WE army is one of the only lists in this votewar with enough of a punch to negate the rez orbs. There are 145 attacks coming from the troops alone. Combine that with space marine resilience and a pie plate coming down every turn. The lord and the bloodthirster can take down the monoliths, not to mention cutting swathes through the crons.

I vote for WE.
 

·
Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
Joined
·
1,413 Posts
World Eaters

For this game a simple equation can determine the outcome:

Daemon Prince + bloodthirster + close combat = phase out

In reality the Monoliths, although nearly impossible to destroy for the WE won't make a vast amount of difference, and will get popped quite quickly by the predators.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Once again, the problem for the World Eaters is bait. Specifically, Monolith bait.
Even the Bloodthirster and Daemon Prince will have a tough time scratching the monolith...and there's two of them.

Simply deploy the lords and warrior squads as far back as possible. Deep strike both Monoliths. You should get at least one by turn 2, and then you have nearly the entire Khorne army trying to bash it apart. They will only hit on 6's, and glance on 6's.....and we all know how much Monoliths laugh at the glancing table. Even the tanks will have a rough time taking down a monolith.

Plus, all these troops bunched up for close combat will be perfect targets for the Particle Whips.
Everyone here is talking about how much smack Khorne will deal in cc, but will they be able to stay there?
The Necron player literally has the capability to teleport all of his squads out of close combat. 2 of the squads teleported out will be able to reroll their WBB (which they should always get, thanks to the Res Orbs). That means Khorne needs to "kill" 4 necrons to make sure one is down for the count.

Finally, Khorne's bloodlust hurts again in the mission type. Once the Monoliths strike, you can move them both towards a corner, luring most of the Khorne army there. That means only the vehicles will be able to contend corners. And those can be dealt with by the teleporting Lord. Khorne can defnitely dish it out, but the 'Crons don't have to take it.

I vote Necron
 

·
Festo Diata
Joined
·
962 Posts
He has a very valid point. Khorne must charge the nearest unit, even if they can't hurt it, so a Monolith coming down right in front of the WE would tie all of them up in combat, not to mention the Gauss Flux Generator. "Mmkay, so 8 units, 8d6 shots...". Owch. However, I think the Khornate tanks could down it after a few turns. Plus, the Monolith won't even appear until turn 2, on a 4+. I wouldn't count on it.

The real trick is to get your characters in combat with the Necrons, and take out those Lords right away. Neither Lord has a Phylactery OR a Phase Field, so they won't last long at all. If the Lords get killed, which could happen easily if done right, then the Necrons would fall apart.

So in summary, the Khorne get to move for 1-2 turns before the Deep Striking Monolith appears, and by then they'll most definitely be close enough to cause damage to the Necrons in CC. The tanks can handle the Monoliths. It'll take every turn of the game, but the Khorne can do it.

World Eaters
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
DISREGARD ALL REFERENCES TO VEIL OF DARKNESS.
The Necron did not include it and I just skimmed over and assumed it was there (or maybe I was confusing it with the other Necron list). Regardless, maybe I'll edit them out later but I'm too tired right now. So just skip over them.

In response to TwoHats

He has a very valid point. Khorne must charge the nearest unit, even if they can't hurt it, so a Monolith coming down right in front of the WE would tie all of them up in combat, not to mention the Gauss Flux Generator. "Mmkay, so 8 units, 8d6 shots...". Owch. However, I think the Khornate tanks could down it after a few turns. Plus, the Monolith won't even appear until turn 2, on a 4+. I wouldn't count on it.
First off, I'd think the Particle Whip would be better, as it will wound on 2+ and allow no save. Second, since both Monoliths can deepstrike, that 4+ means you should average one dropping in on turn 2.

The real trick is to get your characters in combat with the Necrons, and take out those Lords right away. Neither Lord has a Phylactery OR a Phase Field, so they won't last long at all. If the Lords get killed, which could happen easily if done right, then the Necrons would fall apart.
You're right, that's a real trick. Seeing as both the the Daemon Prince and Bloodthirster must charge when possible....the Monolith bait works on them in addition to the troops. Assuming they did manage to make it to the Lords' squads, getting into base to base contact with the Lords will prove difficult with 20 warriors blocking the way. So for the first round of combat, the lords will probably be unscathed. And that means one of them is Veiling and shooting. Granted, the other would be in trouble....but this is assuming both Khorne HQ's make it to seperate warrior squads instead of being tied up with Monoliths.

So in summary, the Khorne get to move for 1-2 turns before the Deep Striking Monolith appears, and by then they'll most definitely be close enough to cause damage to the Necrons in CC. The tanks can handle the Monoliths. It'll take every turn of the game, but the Khorne can do it.
Remember, even with talismans blood frenzy only works roughly half (5/9) of the time. When it does work, it will average (rounding up) 4 inches. So not all the squads will get the additional move, and the same squad may not get it twice in a row.
So let's say that one unit manages to bloody frenzy twice for max each time. That means, with assault figured in, the unit goes 30 inches. That means they can probably charge the closest Necron squad....IF there is a straight line and IF there is no difficult terrain. Assuming both those conditions are true, the Necron can simply teleport out of the close combat the next turn (Veil Lord).
Second, you say it will take the tanks every turn of the game to destroy the 'liths. That's 6 turns of the game with the majority of the Khorne army hacking away at 2 monoliths. That means they''re not claiming quarters, killing 'crons for phase out, or anything more productive than throwing powerfists at the 'liths and hoping for the best.
In addition, I bet it wouldn't take the Veil Lord and his squad all game to destroy the tanks.

In response to Robizzle
Daemon Prince + bloodthirster + close combat = phase out
Really? Really? As I mentioned before, the 'crons could easily avoid close combat. I'd say only the Bloodthirster has a chance, thanks to the wings, but as long as the 'cron moves his troops away from the Berserkers tied up with Monoliths, he should be fine.
But let us assume that both Khorne HQ's make it into close combat. Let's also assume the 'cron isn't going to place his Lord right up front, but rather in back or centered. This means that the first round of close combat, the HQ's will only be hitting troops.
-Daemon Prince
He will knock down (thanks to res orb) 4 warriors (rounding up) on the charge. Two of those will get back up. He just killed 2 Necrons out of 60.
-Bloodthirster
On the charge, he'll knock down (res orb) 3 warriors. I'll say 1 gets up. So he killed 2 Necrons out of 60.
These close combat monsters, on the charge, kill a grand total of 4 warriors! Four!
Then one squad can teleport out to the other side of the board. Seeing as that squad will remain safe from the HQ's for the rest of the game, I feel pretty safe in saying that Daemon Prince + bloodthirster + close combat =/= phase out.

In reality the Monoliths, although nearly impossible to destroy for the WE won't make a vast amount of difference, and will get popped quite quickly by the predators.
Ok, the predators will average 8/9 damaging shots a turn. Half of those will be glances, and half will be penetratations. The glance has a 1/6 chance of destroying a lith, while the penetrate has a 1/2. That works out to 2/18 glances destroying and 4/18 penetrates destroying meaning for each turn there is a 1/3 that the combined predator fire will kill a monolith. 2 monoliths, 6 turns, that means in 6 full turns of shooting, both monoliths will be down.....assuming nothing happens to the predators *cough* Veil Lord *cough*.
Granted, the defiler has a chance, but honestly I feel that is too small for me to go through the math for.

In response to numberofthebeastxxx
The WE army is one of the only lists in this votewar with enough of a punch to negate the rez orbs. There are 145 attacks coming from the troops alone. Combine that with space marine resilience and a pie plate coming down every turn. The lord and the bloodthirster can take down the monoliths, not to mention cutting swathes through the crons.
I'll be damned if I'm gonna state why the Berserkers aren't seeing cc against actual crons again...you can just read above! As for the pie plate, the res orbs will counter that somewhat....I figure it will actually kill around 3 crons a turn. And Veil Lord blah blah blah.

As for the Lord and Bloodthirster taking down the 'liths...
First off, the Lord can't scratch it.
The Bloodthirster has a 1/36 chance of destroying it. That's 6 attacks (charge), needing 6's to hit, 6's to glance, and 6's to destroy. As the Necron, I would be happy to watch these two hack away at a 'lith.

In response to The_Outsider
I'm too lazy at this point, so you're getting the short end of the stick. I feel all your reasons have already been countered somewhere above, so maybe they'll convince you and crons will win like you want :)

In fact, you can all feel free to change your vote to Necron now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
okay the comment about changing your vote is stupid don't do that. By placing the monoliths in front of the necorns the Berserkers are just going to be wasted charging it. Their chainaxes will be as effective taking out a monolith as I am at taking down an NFL linebacker. However after a few turns the preds and defiler will take out the monoliths. 2 twin linked lascannons and the battle cannon could take out a monolith by turn 2 and the second by turn 4. Then its lights out for the necrons as they have no where to teleport and will get stuck in cc. I think it would be a long game and depend on the roll of the dice however the Crons will pull it off. I am teetering on the edge here, but it will take a good post to convince me otherwise.
 

·
Festo Diata
Joined
·
962 Posts
Terzo, am I right in assuming that the above Necron is yours?

Anyhow, neither of those Necron Lords has the Veil of Darkness.

Also, the World Eaters will get at least one turn of charging towards the Necron battle line, with or without Blood Frenzy. While they do this, the Predators take out a Monolith, if it's in play. The squads have a 2/3 chance of Blood Frenzy, which means that 4 units will, "on average". Also, if a squad does not Blood Frenzy, and is more than 12" away from the Deep Striking Monolith, nothing is stopping it from moving towards the Necrons. Good spacing means that the Monolith Strike won't tie up the entire army.
 

·
señor brushman!
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
I vote Necrons

First off, very nice post Terzo. You make some really good points.

I think the Necrons will be able to avoid CC and and shoot the WE to bits while being able to take table quarters with teleportation and VoD while making the WE chase them across the board. I just don't think that the WE have the power to destroy those Monoliths or phase out the Necrons.

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
No....Veil?
Wow I'm blind. Well, that means the tanks will have a lot less to worry about, though the monoliths have the potential to take down 1 if they fire at them with the Particle Whip instead of the troops instead of the Berserkers.
But damn, why no Veil? WHY?
I'm still voting Necron though.
And no this is not my list (ask Caluin if you don't believe me).
And what's wrong with changing your vote? What if you see something you missed (like me missing the LACK OF VEIL!!!)? Or someone offers a counter point that you can't defend against?

According to what you said, I shouldn't be able to change my vote to Khorne (not that I am:)) even though I missed that the crons have no Veil.
 

·
Now with STFU flames!
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
TwoHats said:
Terzo, am I right in assuming that the above Necron is yours?
Whether the list is Terzo's or not, it doesn't matter. Perhaps s/he just really likes that Necron list and wants to see it succeed.

Terzo said:
According to what you said, I shouldn't be able to change my vote to Khorne (not that I am:)) even though I missed that the crons have no Veil.
I think the point LA was trying to make was that telling people they should change their vote, no matter how jokingly it may have been, is considered poor sportmanship. People are free to change their votes as often as they see fit - I just ask that they edit out their previous votes so that it doesn't confuddle me later on.

Terzo said:
No....Veil?
Wow I'm blind.
Everyone makes mistakes, don't sweat it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
I vote Necrons

This is how I would play the battle as the necron player. Deploy one monolith at the start of the game, the other gets deep struck. The deployed monolith starts in the front & center of the deployment zone. Everything elsedeploys in a phalanx around the first Monolith. On the necron's first turn the monolith advances forward it's full move. The rest of the army Fires on Bezerkers as they charge forward. Assuming the enemy fails to take out the monolith on the first turn they're going to have to charge it, then take rapid fire from most of the necron army. This rapid fire would on average kill 2 full squads of bezerkers. By the end of the second turn the first monolith will most likely die by this point. (my figures on shooting give the chaos player about a 50% chance of taking it out every turn from the lascannons. And CC will make it a little higher on than 50% going out the second.)
The point is that goes (I give it a little better than even odds that it will.) It will be a trap unadvoidable by the world eaters that will lead them into a kill zone and destroy them without mercy.
Or if it doesn't work the bezerkers are going to break through and slaughter the Necrons in HtH.
I see this fight turning out as a desisive victory for one of the players. I just give a little better odds on the Necron because of the monolith trap, or one of it's varients, seems to me most likely to work, and therefor I vote for them.
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
4,429 Posts
Wow, this is a really strong WE list.

Dicent cover fire, combined with great anti necro stuff,

Chain axe Allows only a 4+ save in CC, BLood thirthiser is 8s, making him a terror in assault.

Forget shooting the monoltihs, jump into CC, and never leave.

Play for phase out.

WE win

Btw the profile for that big dude is something along the lines 6WS 6T 6S 7A

The WE list is also floating about 10 feet off the ground, due to how fluffy it is.

theres also a battle cannon for maxium Necron dreath.
 

·
Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
Joined
·
1,413 Posts
Really? Really? As I mentioned before, the 'crons could easily avoid close combat. I'd say only the Bloodthirster has a chance, thanks to the wings, but as long as the 'cron moves his troops away from the Berserkers tied up with Monoliths, he should be fine.
But let us assume that both Khorne HQ's make it into close combat. Let's also assume the 'cron isn't going to place his Lord right up front, but rather in back or centered. This means that the first round of close combat, the HQ's will only be hitting troops.
-Daemon Prince
He will knock down (thanks to res orb) 4 warriors (rounding up) on the charge. Two of those will get back up. He just killed 2 Necrons out of 60.
-Bloodthirster
On the charge, he'll knock down (res orb) 3 warriors. I'll say 1 gets up. So he killed 2 Necrons out of 60.
These close combat monsters, on the charge, kill a grand total of 4 warriors! Four!
Then one squad can teleport out to the other side of the board. Seeing as that squad will remain safe from the HQ's for the rest of the game, I feel pretty safe in saying that Daemon Prince + bloodthirster + close combat =/= phase out.
Indeed. But thats 2 squads tied up in a combat they can't possibly win until the Zerkers turn up, and kick the rest of the Crons in. And what if the Bloodthirster/Prince went for the lord and tried to take him down? I don't see him having much difficulty in doing this. Either way, when the Big things get to combat, thats 40 Necrons instantly down the drain. Of course this isn't even taking into account morale. from the bloodthirster it's -2 because of daemonic visage, so there's a fair chance of you failing that. Especially if there are plenty of them to take.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
693 Posts
i vote necrons

-the monoliths can be used to distract the WE army by forcing them to charge a skimmer, that they basically can't hurt, keeping them away from the warriors.

-the WE shooting isn't that effective at taking down the monoliths, and with the res-orbs it won't do anything to the warriors.

-even if they do make it to CC, the necron player can teleport out 2 squads a turn, and rapid fire with 20 guys from each, and if the lords are at the back of the squads, then they can never be taken out.

current status is a 5 to 5 tie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,574 Posts
The_Outsider said:
World eaters

Though I would like the necrons to win, the amount of CC that the WE can do will hold the necrons up and stall their advance, sure the monoliths will balance that out but the phase out is just too high.

If the bloodthirster gets close enough to the monoliths he will not have too hard a job of killing one, if not both.
??? He doesn't get the extra penetration die to to lith special rules and he hits on a six. He'd have a near impossible time killing one.

And "phase out is just too high" makes no sense, since the higher the phase out is, the more necrons they must have and thus the harder it would be to phase them out. Although it's counter intuitive, with necrons the higher the phase out the better, since it's ALWAYS 1/4 of the total crons.

It seems to me people here are making the mistake of assuming a close combat does much damage to the necrons. Here's an example cc against a squad that's taken 4 casualties, and has the worse lord with them (a random selection) vs a berserker squad:

7 Berserkers: (I believe 28 attacks)
28 attacks
14 hits
7 wounds
2 deaths

Say 8 live crons and the lord are engaged in cc:
lord: 3 attacks
2 hits
4/3 kills

warriors: 8 attacks
4 hits
2 wounds
2/3 failed saves
(so 2 berserkers killed)

Champion: (I believe 5 attacks, though I'm really unsure here. I can't get to the codex right now, so if I'm wrong, these would be off by a tad):
5 attacks
5/2 hits
25/12 kills (with WBB due to res orb)

So 4 warriors dead. However, on the next turn, they go through the monolith and 3 come back to life average from both WBB:

15 warriors+ 1 necron lord+ 1 monolith shoot
30 shots
20 hits
10 wounds
10/3 kills (5 total now)

1 lord: 3 shots
2 hits
4/3 kills

1 monolith
7/2 shots
7/3 hits
14/9 wounds
14/27 failed saves:

All in all about one member of the squad lives, though possibly not. The necrons lost 1 model. And they were the ones charged in cc. Now, these stats may not have been 100% accurate, since I did this off memory (1.333 necrons might die if KB have WS5), but it's very close to accuracy.

Oh yeah, so I vote for Necrons
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
I've been thinking recently.

The lack of a Veil makes this a bit more unclear, due to the mission.

1 2

3 4

Ok, those numbers represent each table quarter. Let's say 'crons start in quarter 2, and Khorne in quarter 3. The crons will easily be able to contest quarters 1 and 2. No matter where the monoliths drop, they both should be down by the end of the game (as the 'crons can't really deal with the Khorne vehicles due to range). The mass of berserkers (although probably whittled down by now) will be able to contest a quarter, most likely 3 or 4, but possibly even 2. That means if the Khorne player deploys his predators close to the edges of 1 and 4, on turn 6 he can move each to contest 1 and 4 respectively. I figure that means he'll be able to control 1 quarter, earning him 462.5 points.
Does that make up for the Berserkers that will be falling under Monolith pie plates?
I don't think so, but that' something for those who haven't decided yet to think about.

Granted, if the 'cron player gets the last turn, he'll probably be able to shoot gauss at the contesting predators, possibly rendering them non-scoring. If Khorne gets last turn, then this is not a problem. Just another pickle to throw out there :)
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top