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40K VWMkIII - Battle #20, Round #2 - Death Guard versus Chaos Marines

1000 Views 14 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Addoran, 
Caluin
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type - Secure and Control


 Death Guard Chaos Space Marines

Headquarters – 167 points.
Chaos Lord:
Mark of Nurgle; Manreaper & Bolt Pistol; Daemonic Flight; Daemonic Strength; Daemonic Aura; Daemonic Visage; Nurgle’s Rot; Spiky Bits; Infiltration; Frag Grenades

TROOPS – 462 points
Plague Marines - Seven (7) men
Four (4) armed with Bolters and CCW
Two (2) armed with Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolter; Nurgle's Rot
Rhino: Extra Armour/Smoke

Plague Marines - Seven (7) men
Four (4) armed with Bolters and CCW
Two (2) armed with Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolter; Nurgle's Rot
Rhino: Extra Armour/Smoke

Fast Attack – 693 points
Plague Marines - Seven (7) men
Four (4) armed with Bolters and CCW
Two (2) armed with Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolter; Nurgle's Rot
Rhino: Extra Armour/Smoke

Plague Marines - Seven (7) men
Four (4) armed with Bolters and CCW
Two (2) armed with Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolter; Nurgle's Rot
Rhino: Extra Armour/Smoke

Plague Marines - Seven (7) men
Four (4) armed with Bolters and CCW
Two (2) armed with Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolter; Nurgle's Rot
Rhino: Extra Armour/Smoke

HEAVY SUPPORT – 525 points
Predator:
Autocannon; Lascannons sponsons; Mutated Hull; Daemonic Possession

Predator:
Autocannon; Lascannons sponsons; Mutated Hull; Daemonic Possession

Predator:
Autocannon; Lascannons sponsons; Mutated Hull; Daemonic Possession

---------------------------------

Slaaneshi Battle-Group
Chaos Space Marines

Headquarters – 201 points
Chaos Lord Akuma:
Mark of Slaanesh; Darkblade; Combat Drugs; Daemonic Strength; Daemonic Aura; Doom Siren; Chaos Space Marine Bike; Furious Charge; Frag Grenades

Troops – 595 points
Daemonettes Pack – Six (6) daemons

Chaos Space Marines – Six (6) men
All have Mark of Slaanesh; Infiltrate
Four (4) armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) armed with Blastmaster
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon

Chaos Space Marines – Six (6) men
All have Mark of Slaanesh; Infiltrate
Four (4) armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) armed with Blastmaster
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon

Chaos Space Marines – Six (6) men
All have Mark of Slaanesh; Infiltrate
Four (4) armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) armed with Blastmaster
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon

Fast Attack – 501 points
Slaaneshi Bike Squad – Five (5) men
All have Mark of Slaanesh; Frag Grenades; Furious Charge
One (1) with Doom Siren
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Daemonic Strength, Doom Siren, Power Weapon

Undivided Bike Squad - Five (5) Bikes
All have Mark of Chaos Undivided
Two (2) armed with Meltagun
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Power Fist

Heavy Support – 563 points
Chaos Space Marine Havocs – Six (6) men
All have Tank Hunters
Two (2) armed with Bolters
Four (4) armed with Autocannon

Chaos Space Marine Havocs – Six (6) men
All have Tank Hunters
Two (2) armed with Bolters
Four (4) armed with Missile Launcher

Chaos Havocs w/ bolter – Seven (7) Men
All have Mark of Chaos Undivided; Infiltrate
Two (2) armed with Bolters
Four (4) armed with Plasma Gun
One (1) Aspiring Champion: Bolter

Fluff:
Formerly a servant of Chaos Undivided, Lord Akuma attained daemonhood when he swore allegiance to Slaanesh. Slaanesh rewarded Akuma with a darkblade. The core of Akuma's army followed in his footsteps, but the rest of his servants still trusting their weapons above Akuma's new God. So long as the havocs pave "Prince" Akuma's path, he tolerates their worship of Chaos Undivided.

Tactics:
The whole army exists to get Akuma into close combat, but he does not have to survive to win the battle.

Each undivded unit is tailored for a different enemy.
Missile Launchers: Heavy Armor (AV 12+), Power-armored infantry
Autocannons: Light Armor, Terminators (Statistically more likely to kill these than any other heavy weapon, with 8 Str 6 shots), and 'Nid hordes.
Plasma Guns: Power Armor, Monstrous Creatures
Bike-mounted melta guns: Heavy Armor, dreads

Tthe plasma havocs and the three troop squads deploy close to the enemy, in cover, and let the plasma guns/blastmasters do the initial killing. The bikes turbo-boost, with the melta squad in front, to absorb casualties, while the havocs engage anything that could really hurt the bikes. By turn 2, Akuma should reach close combat and the troops simultaneously charge. The plasma havocs and the melta bikers deal with things Akuma cannot kill, esp. dreads, 'fexes, and heavy armor. With 3 doom sirens and Akuma's 6 str 8 attacks, Akuma's squad faces NO superior threats once in CC. They can take 'stealers and broodlords (yes that is play tested).

The daemonettes have 6 icons to choose from, so they go where trouble is.
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TwoHats
The Death Guard have the advantage in combat, having more men, higher Toughness, and Powerfists. The Slaaneshi shooting is probably going to put down most of those Rhinos, though. The bikes can be handled easily by the Predators and other shooting. After that, the Noise Marines will fall in combat. The Havocs fall shortly after, not being able to get rid of those Predators.

Death Guard
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L
Of course thats assuming the death gaurd actually get inside the rhinos. The death gaurd will win because the slaneesh list doesn't have the firepower to kill them
Death Guard
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J
I too vote for Death Guard

The reason is that I see the two armies closely matched in close combat on a model for model basis. It's a question of going first vs resilience. fair traidoff. Also model count in close combat is pretty close.
However death guard have a big edge on the Chaos list in shooting: The plasma guns and bolter shots are going to cut down the enemy numbers before they can get into close combat, and when the actual assaults happen Death Guard will have an edge on numbers and win.
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Robizzle
Death Guard

Although it would be very close. I can't really see the Slaanesh beating them in combat, which is really where they need to be to greatest effect. However, it does seem quite likely that the predators won't last long, but could do some damage to the bikers.

When it comes down to it, the close combat squads attacking each other will be 35 death guard and a lord, against 18 slaanesh, 10 bikes and a lord...Death Guard are outnumbering. I know from personal experience this is a bad thing for the Slaanesh.
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N
I vote for the Death Guard.

The DG army is too tough to be taken down by the chaos marines. Missle launchers and autocannons will have a tough time with those predators since they have mutated hull. Bikes are nice, but every DG marine has the same toughness. All the plasma and cc ability of the DG will win the day.
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tiaxrulesall
i vote death guard
-the rhinos are very stupid, but all that plasma, and better CC will win the day, it is a interesting, but not very well built slanesh list.
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Caluin
tiaxrulesall said:
-the rhinos are very stupid,
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I am happening to see a lot of these type of statements in your votes, and they concern me quite a bit. If you're going to give a critical statement such as that, please at least give reasons as to why. The whole point of VoteWar is to help people improve their lists, and just saying "that's stupid" doesn't help at all.

Secondly, I think "stupid" is not the word you meant. A much more appropriate term would have been "ineffecient." Stupid implies that the list creator was wrong for putting them in the list, which you have no way of knowing why s/he did that in the first place, seeing as s/he didn't deign to put in a tactics section. "Ineffecient" implies that there were better options avaliable, but there are still uses for the Rhinos.
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Caluin said:
I am happening to see a lot of these type of statements in your votes, and they concern me quite a bit. If you're going to give a critical statement such as that, please at least give reasons as to why. The whole point of VoteWar is to help people improve their lists, and just saying "that's stupid" doesn't help at all.

Secondly, I think "stupid" is not the word you meant. A much more appropriate term would have been "ineffecient." Stupid implies that the list creator was wrong for putting them in the list, which you have no way of knowing why s/he did that in the first place, seeing as s/he didn't deign to put in a tactics section. "Ineffecient" implies that there were better options avaliable, but there are still uses for the Rhinos.
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I agree with the first point, but disagree with the second. Personally, I think it was stupid. It actually hinders the chaos, since with cc troops in slow closed-topped vehicles, they'll take 2 turns to get there. With the inability to use smokes 2 turns and the inability to assault after moving, they're either sitting out in the open, or entangled the next turn. Stupid implies that the choice wasn't very intelligent and actually hurt the list, in this case. They'd almost have been better footslogging it without infiltrate.

However, since the slannesh list doesn't have good anti-marine capabilities, I'm going to have to vote death guard as well
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Caluin
TheWamp said:
I agree with the first point, but disagree with the second.
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Fair enough - my issue wasn't so much that people thought the idea was silly (my own opinions about Rhinos aside from this - anyone who knows me, knows my thoughts on Rhinos), but more how the statement was presented. A blanket "that's stupid" arguement without any type of explanation reflects poorly upon the list creator, and we're trying to avoid that kind of criticism.
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TwoHats
Caluin said:
Fair enough - my issue wasn't so much that people thought the idea was silly (my own opinions about Rhinos aside from this - anyone who knows me, knows my thoughts on Rhinos), but more how the statement was presented. A blanket "that's stupid" arguement without any type of explanation reflects poorly upon the list creator, and we're trying to avoid that kind of criticism.
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Quite so, I disagree with use of the word, but Wamp, I can totally understand what you mean about Rhinos being a disappointing tactic to use. However...

If I was the Death Guard player, it would occur to me to take the Rhinos into an entire different light. Consider that there are five Rhinos in his list. Nothing compels this player to use the Rhinos the way they were intended. In fact, he'd be much better off (and much more deviant to his opponents :D) to use the Rhinos in a way that baffles and disrupts his enemies plans. The Rhino is a fairly large model, and it covers a lot of space. The Mission is Secure and Control, which means the Death Guard will have to grab a lot of objectives. The Rhinos could be used as a blockade, shutting the opponent off from objectives, and since there are five, there's more than enough Rhino to screen a large area. Also, he could screen his own men with them! No incoming fire to his troops while he captures objectives and territory. Lastly, never discount that he could disembark at the end of his first move, thereby nulling the fear of Entanglement. The next turn, he could simply re-embark or dismiss the Rhino from the squad, if it is unharmed.

Remember: 2 Marines can fire from the top of a Rhino, without it counting as open-topped, even if the vehicle uses its Smoke Launchers in the same turn. It occurs to me that the Rhinos could go 12", pop smoke, and launch 20 Plasma shots in the first turn. In this case, I would start the game with the Marines outside of the Rhinos, in case I lost the roll for first turn.

There are always tricks to every choice, and the more deviant you get, the more the game is in your control, not your unnerved opponents.
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Death Guard are better in combat and if the CSM are infiltrating Rhino's may well be moving up to empty plenty of rapid fire on turn 1.

If the DG player gets 1st infiltrate a large area of the board will be denied to the enemy.

All the CSM havocs are pretty pointless against av14 Predators especialy when 3 in number. The can target and kill a squad of CSM pretty easily.

Plus the DG dont HAVE to deploy in the Rhino's. they could simply push them out in front to keep infiltrators back and block the Devastators.

Death Guard
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TwoHats said:
Remember: 2 Marines can fire from the top of a Rhino, without it counting as open-topped, even if the vehicle uses its Smoke Launchers in the same turn. It occurs to me that the Rhinos could go 12", pop smoke, and launch 20 Plasma shots in the first turn.
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Umm. . .I'm pretty sure that won't work because the way I recall the rules for top popping is that you can only shoot if the vehicle itself could shoot. (and if it moved then you fire as if you had moved that turn.) Your suggestion breaks this rule in two places, first moving 12 disqualifies you, and second smoke disqualifies you.

Oddly you could move up 12, hop out and rapid fire the plasma though. (Your opponent would need to be quite close for this to work though <26 inches from the rhino at the start of the battle.
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ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
So, the deathgaurd 5T advantage is removed by the bikes.

All they slanessh heavy weapons can destory side armour on tanks, with infiltrate it should be no problem.

THose tanks can move and shoot only 1 weapon.

But the tanks arent really a treait, turbo boost turn one, CC after that, once in CC the slaness will rip those nurgle hard.

The nurgle HQ is wasting infiltrate, if he hopes up the field infront of the rest of the army, all the slanesh player needs do is pop him with something 8S and hes instant deathed. Or just asault him with a whole squad of dudes and kill him off easy that way.

SLanesh win
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A
Death Guard

I don't think there's any ground I can cover that hasn't been mentioned really. Slaneeshi weapons aren't particularly great against those Plague Marines, and Nurgle's powerfists and Plasma will carry the day.
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