I never thought I'd see an army this deathwing list could beat, but I think the utter lack of armor piercing guns and anti-tank guns will allow the terminator and land raider armor to carry the day
I vote Deathwing
I vote Deathwing
I really disagree. You see, the termies are IN the LRs, and there's nothing the SW can do about it. They charge out, and kill 8 marines in a charge. Land Raider fire means that 10 SW will go down per DW squad per turn, so the SW won't even be able to touch them. Powerfists don't do much damage to termies when the user is killed.Grey said:Hmm. I'm seeing a lot of 'need shooting to kill assault terminators'. No. They want to be in hth. This is what they do and they do it much better than the terminators.
Or... the DW can stay in the LRs until they need to assault and they'll easily kill anything they charge.Terminators will all die in HtH to the Ice Giants, leaving 3 Land Raiders to attempt to achive a secure and control mission.
Yeah, except no. Meltaguns, maybe, there's a chance, but powerfists, definetly no. If the SW ever get close enough to assault, the LR will probably have moved over 6", making you hit on a 6+. As for meltaguns, well, the termies could jsut charge out and kill them.The Deathwing does not have the numbers to pull this off and the Ice Giants will probably be able to pop at least one Land Raider by melta gun or powerfist.
Why? It's a very fluffy list, and actually has a bit of thought behind the Land Raiders. The Terminator Assault squads stay in the Land Raiders, using the high AV to protect them until they are close enough to charge out with the benefit of frags.TwoHats said:P.S. I HATE THAT DA LIST
You seem to be assuming that all the Terminators are armed with Power fists - you'll notice that 8 of them are using L-Claws at init 5 on the charge - faster than the Space Wolves. Even on a counter charge, it's likely that the 12 power weapon attacks with rerolls to wound are going to wipe out most of the Space Wolves list before those Power fists get a chance to strike back.Grey said:The Termies PFs aren't going any faster than their opponents and they are outnumbered in both numbers and numbers of units. HtH of Terminators versus space wolves is one sided. On the SWs side.
Caluin said:[You seem to be assuming that all the Terminators are armed with Power fists - you'll notice that 8 of them are using L-Claws at init 5 on the charge - faster than the Space Wolves. Even on a counter charge, it's likely that the 12 power weapon attacks with rerolls to wound are going to wipe out most of the Space Wolves list before those Power fists get a chance to strike back.
Well, I didn't even condsider the deathwing attacking the bikes at all because I knew that the bikes couldn't even touch them.Sabrewulf said:Everyone who says "deathwing will charge and kill X number of spacewolves" is ignoring the fact that these bikes could turbo-boost or stay in cover and then counter-charge when the terminators finally emerge.
Umm, no, look again at the DW list. It has less firepower than the SW list. But it has more potential to wipe out SW units.Also, the numerous HQ choices can simply hide within troop squads, which will absorb shooting losses / hth losses, and then counter-charge. I think the Spacewolves will lose enormous numbers to shooting but it won't matter, because they have the numbers to spare.
Yeah I counted it. But you're forgetting the massive ammount of power weapon attacks from the termies. There is 65. Count that again, 65 power weapon attacks on the charge from the termies. I don't care what they're attacking, it's going to kill any and all SW near them.There is 17. Count that again 17 total Terminators in the DW list versus 54 infantry and bike models armed with 12 powerfists, 2 power weapons, 2 frostblades and a SW Ven Dreadnoughts DCCW.
Hmm. A Str 5 power weapon hitting on 3s and getting 6 attacks can't hurt terminators, or two power fists getting 6 total attacks? Are you kidding?Ezekiel1990 said:Well, I didn't even condsider the deathwing attacking the bikes at all because I knew that the bikes couldn't even touch them.
Ezekiel1990 said:Yeah I counted it. But you're forgetting the massive ammount of power weapon attacks from the termies. There is 65. Count that again, 65 power weapon attacks on the charge from the termies. I don't care what they're attacking, it's going to kill any and all SW near them.
Thats assuming that all the DW Land raiders hang out together. And if they do, it makes it easier for the SW to pick where they are going to hit them.Ezekiel1990 said:As for the SW "coutercharging and killing the DW" well that's not going to happen because by turn 2, only 2 drop pods will come down by average. Not 4. So the DW could just kill them and wait for the next batch. They can stand any serious firepower that the SW can give them when they land.
Correct. My appologies.ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:4 teminators with lighting claws have 16 attacks, not 12. thats an average of 9 dead marines Before they can even strike. .
Really. Who exactly are they charging? As has been stated earlier all the SWs are on drop pods except those that are on bikes. So they're charging who?ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:This is a second turn charge, so the landraider needs only move 6".
Once again, who are the Land Raiders shooting at? There is nothing on the board for them to shoot at until the DPs come down except for Whirlwinds hidden somewhere and bikes turbo boosting into position.ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:So, if we account for reasonable shooting:
Twinlinked heavy bolter: Kills one blood claw.
Twinlinked lascannon kills another blood claw.
Machine spirt lascannon, may or may not...
By that time, however, it wont matter.
If you elminate even one blood claw in the shooting phase they will never strike back at the termintors.
Its a pretty snazy combo. But.ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:We havent even started talking about the sword of secrets with chaplain. Fear that combo.
Honestly, when I play against SW, I always give them the first turn, because I know they're not going to shoot me with anything too decent and I might get a first turn charge in.In addition, it should be remembered that the SW will probably have the first turn so will have a slight advantage in determining who shoots who.
Ok the frost weapons will kill some stuff, but the powerfists probably won't and all the DW player has to do to make sure the frost blade wielder is in combat with a thunderhammer, which isn't too difficult, and they have more to gain then lose by killing an independant character with the bikes.Hmm. A Str 5 power weapon hitting on 3s and getting 6 attacks can't hurt terminators, or two power fists getting 6 total attacks? Are you kidding?
It's not hard to charge a unit if you have a 20" charge radius. Unless the bikes are on one side of the board and the DW are on the other side, it won't take more than two turns.If they get to charge. Which I doubt. Who are they charging? Bikes? Can't reach them if the bikes decide not to. And as you say next everyone else is in drop pods so WHO exactly are the DW charging?
The sword of secrets combo is a lot more dangerous than some S5 stuff. What happens if the Master w/ SoS charges? Well, to start with, he hits with 6 S7 power weapon attacks that re-roll to hit. That means he wounds a bike on 2+. And if he doesn't charge, well, he'll probably hit with his thunderhammer instead. He can take the charge of 6 Frost blade attacks (4 hits, 3 wounds, at least one passed save), and then with a thunderhammer, boom! 3 hits, 2 wounds, at least one failed save, there goes one SW IC. And the chaplain and sergeant could probably take care of the other bikes by themselves (6 attacks, 5 hits, 3-4 wounds).Its contained in one little unit. Yes it is dangerous, so are two characters with str 5 and as many attacks as you hitting the DW characters on 3s.