Librarium Online Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Now with STFU flames!
Joined
·
5,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type -
Secure and Control

LOST AND THE DAMNED - (6 points)

Headquarters – 203 points
Arch Heretic (Carthas the Skull-taker)
Kai Gun; Power sword

Aspiring Champion Ratbad the Coward (Attached to Mutant Squad)
Powerfist, bolt pistol, daemonic mutation, daemonic visage

Aspiring Champion Sargus the Sly (Attached to Mutant Squad)
Powerfist, bolt pistol, daemonic mutation, daemonic visage

Elites - 482pts
Daemonettes pack – Nine (9) daemons

Flamers of Tzeentch pack – Nine (9) daemons

Obliterator Cult – Two (2) men

Troops – 620 points
Mutants squad – Twenty eight (28) men
Entire squad armed with Frag Grenades.
Twenty three (23) armed with CCW
Two (2) armed with CCW and Icons
Two (2) armed with Flamer
Boss Ganthrash the Fast: Powerfist and CCW

Mutants squad – Twenty eight (28) men
Entire squad armed with Frag Grenades.
Twenty three (23) armed with CCW
Two (2) armed with CCW and Icons
Two (2) armed with Flamer
Boss Rothgar the Strong: Powerfist and CCW

Traitors quad – Five (5) men
Entire unit has Frag Grenades
Two (2) armed with Lasgun
One (1) armed with Lasgun and Icon
One (1) armed with Plasma Gun
Heavy weapons team armed with Missile Launcher

Traitors quad – Five (5) men
Entire unit has Frag Grenades
Two (2) armed with Lasgun
One (1) armed with Lasgun and Icon
One (1) armed with Plasma Gun
Heavy weapons team armed with Missile Launcher

Traitors quad – Five (5) men
Entire unit has Frag Grenades
Two (2) armed with Lasgun
One (1) armed with Lasgun and Icon
One (1) armed with Plasma Gun
Heavy weapons team armed with Missile Launcher

Fast Attack – 265 points
Furies pack – Ten (10) daemons

Hellhound Tank:
Inferno Cannon, Hull mounted Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support – 280 points
Leman Russ Tank:
Battlecannon, Hull Mounted Heavy Bolters; Sponson Heavy Bolters

Basilisk Tank:
Earthshaker Cannon; Indirect Fire; Hull mounted Heavy Bolter

Tactics
Traitors deploy in cover, preferably 18-24 in from oponent and generaly make a nusance of themselves their first priority is slowing down transports after that thinning down opponents troops as best they can.
Mutants move up the board to claim objective/ or engage with enemy troops, moving as a large mass. Mutants are kinda like inexpensive orcs without choppas if you're not familiar with them. . .
The Arch heretic & flamers shoot to thin out enemy numbers.
tanks job is also to thin out enemy numbers, but can assist with tank hunting in a pinch.
The obliterators are used as tank hunters, and will depending on the opponent deep strike in and go for a melta kill, or start on the bord and attack with lascannons.
Daemonettes attack the opponents expensive units, like HQ's, terminators, slow tanks ect.
Furies exist to tie up enemy lines, to keep units out of critical hth's or just block firing lines so that the rest of the army can safely make it to assault.
The key principal is many threats of various types. A close combat army is forced to come to my list and will have to play my game.
A balanced or shooty list will have difficult target priorites to make. Take out CC or shooting. Shooting is a problem now, CC is a big problem if not adressed in the earlier turns.
I consider this to be a balanced list, formidable in close combat, capable in shooting. It is a little slow, but it is not static. It can respond to changes in battlefield situations.

---------------------------------------

Lord Kharnate’s Grand Assembly - (2 points)
World Eaters

Headquarters – 375 points
Chaos Lord Kharnate:
Mark of Khorne; Daemonic Stature; Daemonic Resilience; Daemonic Essence; Daemonic Strength; Berserker Glaive; Feel No Pain

Bloodthirster:
Monstrous Creature; Wings; Living Icon; Khornate Frenzy

Troops – 955 points
Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven (7) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Daemonic Vessel; Talisman of Burning Blood; Chainaxe and Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven (7) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Talisman of Burning Blood

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Talisman of Burning Blood

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol

Khornate Berserkers Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) armed with Chainaxes and Bolt Pistols; Frag Grenades
One (1) armed with Plasma Pistol and Chainaxe; Frag Grenades
Aspiring Champion: Powerfist and Bolt Pistol; Melta Bombs; Talisman of Burning Blood

Heavy Support – 520 points
Defiler:
Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Indirect Fire

Chaos Predator:
Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Twin-linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons; Extra Armour

Destroyer (Dedicated to Khorne); Twin-linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons; Extra Armour

Tactics:
Race up and blood rage all the way (hopefully) thanks to the Talismans of Burning Blood. The lord will remain near the troops if there are railguns so he cant be shot at. If not he will race up and tie up shooty units while the rest of the army adavances. Once close enough, up pops the bloodthirster and if even more cc support is needed the defilers there. Enemy armour will be taken care of as there are 2 monstorous creatures 2 predators, defiler and each aspiring champion has a power fist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,328 Posts
The World Eaters are prob. the only list that can take the mutants on in cc. The BLoodthirster and lord can take care fo the daemons. The mutants will be hit by the defiler pie plate every turn unti they reach cc. With that many muties it's really hard for it to miss. The WE will crash into the mutants where they will be safe from the enmey fire. Even the powerfists cant compensate for the sheer amount of attacks coming from the Berzerkers. The lord and thirster will wade through em, either of them are more than capable of smashing the tanks.

I vote for WE.
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
The preditors can handle the russ, while, the basalk vers other indirect battle cannon, really could go eitherway, seems, who ever gets the first direct hit...

The obliterators will eventually take down the preditors, but by that time its 2 late.

The WE will take casaulties before they get into CC, probably about 8.

But once in CC, they will dominate.

That HQ has 8 attacks on the charge, thats hits on 3 and wounds on 2s, + the gaint winged dude.

The mutatats arent fearless, and hold no hope of winning combate, if the chaos lord lone attacks one squad of them, he will almost surely win, he is 5 in****ve, against 3 initstive, thats one hell of a sweeping advance!

Let the rest of the korn army fucus on taking down the IG dudes, and whatever else they feel like assault, maybe the obleterarots, which only take a 4+ armour save againt them in CC.

World Eaters victory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Hmm Lost and the Damned vs World Eaters in secure and controll? You have to be kidding right?

Some Issues with all your predictions:
Both World Eater Bezerkers and Mutants are designed with the same basic function: Kill Marine equivilants in hand to hand combat: They do this two different ways. Bezerkers Ignore some of the armor save on the basic troops, Mutants use hords of cheep bodies to shield multiple power fists. Both units have an ungodly number of attacks. The Problem is that World Eaters happen to be Marines themselves and happen to fall inside the mutant happy kill parameters, while Bezerkers are, for all practial purposes, not doing any better against mutants than they do agianst models 3 times their point cost.
This puts Bezerkers off on a bad foot to start with: Chain swords are useless, powerweapons are nearly so (though powerfists might come in handy agaist tanks.)

Next lets look at the mission objective: Secure and control. A Khorne army is going to have trouble keeping guys on the objectives with them rolling blood rage over half the time. This is going to hurt thier prospects of winning the scenerio unless they manage to whipe out the lost in hand to hand then, with no enemies on the field take the objectives by default.

A non-stupid Lost commander is going to take advantage of this uncontrollable nature of the World Eater list, and make this battle fought on his or her terms.

The lost player chooses a fire coridore and places the bulk of his force to be able to shot into it, keeping mutants near the front. Traitors get to delpoy out front infiltrated, ready to take the Bezerker charge.
Depending on who goes first/ who rolls better I see the defiler and the basilisk having a shooting match to see who can take the other out first. I call it a fair fight. The Basilisk has the fact that the defiler model is so big, and the fact that it has a higer str and eaiser to pen going for it, the Defiler has demonic possesion helping it however. As it could go either way I'm going to call these fair and discount them from the rest of the evaluation.

For example let's say that Khorne goes first because I see that as most favorable for them:
Turn 1: I'll give the predators the most probable result against the Russ for the first round and that is a stunned. or shaken doesn't really matter. (40% nothing 30% glance 30% pen) The bezerkers move up, those who bloodrage move toward the traitors as they are the closest.
Mutants hold their ground. Hellhound kills about 2 bezerkers, traitors rapid fire plasmaguns (and flashlights) into the bezerkers& fire missiles killing about 5, the Heretic fires his Kai gun kiling 2 The obliterators shoot a preadator, 22% glance 44% pen over 50% odds of taking out the lascannon in some way though taking it out of the tankhunt for at least one round. for the turn evaluation: I get about 9 bezerkers down or about 1 squad.
Second turn Khorn destroys the traitors: fine red mist, but in doing so are now packed into large clumps. 1 lascannon isn't likely to get anything usefull on the Russ (it could get lucky but it has less than 50% to do anything at all.)

Mutants advance on the bezerkers fire again, about the same casualties as last turn from shooting (bout 8 the slack of the lost traitors will be made up by ultimate jucy bunched up bezerkers) Plus 4 flame throwers are going to hit the bunched up bezerkers I think 5 hits each is a fair estimate killing about 3 more. There is 50% odds of 9 flamers showing up and each hitting with a heavy bolter killing 3 more (ill call that 1.5 kills cause they might not come.) So at the end of shooting it will be about 12 more bezerkers down. I'll say that the obliterator shoot at the predator again to keep it busy.
This leaves about 20 bezerkers at the end of shooting phase still standing. Plus 2 monsterous creatures.( and a predator that won't have much to do) They have to deal with nearly 60 mutants, 9 daemonettes and 10 furies in a messy close combat. The hellhound & russ and obliterators will probably be pretty bord at this point too and try to hunt the preadator, but these modles fighting will be made complicated by the big CC going on.

Let's look at this close combat: Daemonettes, furies, and the lord go first. Daemonettes kill 6 marines on average (4.5 rending 1.5 normal), Furies kill 3 marines, Lord Kills 3 mutants. the 11 remaning bezerkers kill 9 mutants (7.33 for regular bezerkers but added a few for the AC's) Bloodthirster kills 3 more.
remaning 39 mutants (not counting bosses) get 117 attacks (only manage to kill 6.5 bezerkers though, then 20 powerfist attacks 8.33 more or basicly the rest of the bezerkers as there are not that many left.

subsiquent rounds of close combat are 4 powerfists, and some rending daemonettes laying the smackdown on the monsterous creatures.

I tried to be fair and statisticly probable. My only assumption that is likely far fetched is that everything is going to crunch together at the same time, this is likely to be a few seperate CC's but pretty much to the same eventual effect. Total massicre of the World Eaters.

Lost and the Damned win easy.
 

·
Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
World Eaters

The predators will destroy the Russ and Basalisk without too many problems, after which the Zerkers will have a clear run up the field. They'll get 2 squads into each mutant squad and the Meat shields will drop pretty damned fast, meaning the power fist will get 1, maybe 2 strikes in combat before they are killed. Thats not even taking into consideration the bloothirster or daemon prince mincing them.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
389 Posts
I don't think you are entirely fair in your assesments Jormagi. I think Lost and the Damned has a very good chance, but they will be fighting on a razors edge. The units they have that can realistically hurt the lord/thirster is very limited. And both those units can plow through half the lost army if not handled properly.

When you calculate the cc results you neglect to take into account the huge logistic difficulties of getting those gigantic squads of mutants into combat. I play Khorne a lot, and trust me, they do very, very well against low initiative, low armor save troops. Charging against a squad of mutants like the ones here they could very likely clear their 2" killing zone, thus sparing themselves from any return attacks.

If the mutants manage their leadership check, and thus are not just run down, they will pile in and have a sligthly better chance next round. Berzerkers are just not very vulnerable to being bogged down by hordes, since they have so many attacks.

If the mutants manage to get the charge they will have just as big problems getting their huge numbers to really matter. I cannot imagine a setup that would allow all of those 28 mutants to get their attacks against the berzerkers. And if you only manage to get 10-15 into cc you are gonna be dropped like a bad habit by those zerkers.

On the charge Daemonettes will devastate a group of berzerkers. And if the Lost player can get his mutants to fight the lord/thirster he has a much better chance of making all those powerfists work. Although he might findt that lord a very tough target to take down this way, his huge amount of attacks and amazing toughness will go a long way towards keeping him alive.

So, in my opinion the Lost army depends heavily on getting the right units to fight the right enemy units. And that can be difficult with a thirster flying around charging the units you would least like him to.

Overall, leadership can be a big factor. Frenzy will most likely give the khorne player the charge, should a large mutant squad get close enough to threaten a charge the defiler can drop a pie plate on them. That defiler can hardly avoid hitting one of the mutant squads, and has a fair chance of either chasing them off or pinning them. Both play right into the khorne players hands. If one of the mutant squads runs early, then that can mean the game right there.

I would love to fight that Lost army, since I see some potential in it, but Khorne seems stronger.

I say World Eaters

Arizzar
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Arizzar said:
I don't think you are entirely fair in your assesments Jormagi.
In what way? Where are my statistics wrong? Do you deny the probable number of bezerkers to make it into combat? If so how?

Arizzar said:
When you calculate the cc results you neglect to take into account the huge logistic difficulties of getting those gigantic squads of mutants into combat. I play Khorne a lot, and trust me, they do very, very well against low initiative, low armor save troops. Charging against a squad of mutants like the ones here they could very likely clear their 2" killing zone, thus sparing themselves from any return attacks.
Oddly I did take that into account, the answer was to let the bezerkers for the most part come to them A squad of mutants doesn't have a hard time doing a single charge of 7-10 inches.

Arizzar said:
If the mutants manage their leadership check, and thus are not just run down, they will pile in and have a sligthly better chance next round. Berzerkers are just not very vulnerable to being bogged down by hordes, since they have so many attacks.

If the mutants manage to get the charge they will have just as big problems getting their huge numbers to really matter. I cannot imagine a setup that would allow all of those 28 mutants to get their attacks against the berzerkers. And if you only manage to get 10-15 into cc you are gonna be dropped like a bad habit by those zerkers.
The magic number of bezerkers to mutants ratio to win combat by points is just don't let them outnumber you. Each base beserker will kill .66 mutants without the charge, .89 with This means that if the combatant (this excludes the ones who might be out of range.) Mutants outnumber the bezerkers at all then there will NOT be a wipe of combatants. And the return 8-10 powerfist attacks are really going to hurt. taking out 66 pts (just powerfists ignoring the rest of them wich will earn a few points) on their own as oposed to the average damage of the bezerkers being about 48 (that's being generous giving the beserkers the charge)
And coincidentally the setup I discribed in my example last post is a situation where I have, with my own lost, managed to both get the charge, and get most of them into the killzone the vast majority of the time against real World Eater players. It's just a small trick of getting blood rage to work against the Khorne player rather than for him. It's simple tactics and doesn't take too much imagination to do.

Arizzar said:
On the charge Daemonettes will devastate a group of berzerkers. And if the Lost player can get his mutants to fight the lord/thirster he has a much better chance of making all those powerfists work. Although he might findt that lord a very tough target to take down this way, his huge amount of attacks and amazing toughness will go a long way towards keeping him alive.
No disagreement there, the lord and the bloodthirster are going to be hard to kill, but they will go down when they're alone.

Arizzar said:
So, in my opinion the Lost army depends heavily on getting the right units to fight the right enemy units. And that can be difficult with a thirster flying around charging the units you would least like him to.
Oddly the bloodthirster is the only CC unit in the battle that doesn't succom to blood rage, and he has to assault if possable. The lost don't depend on certain units going against the other units so much as they can count on it. The beserkers (and lord) that blood rage must charge at the nearest target, and this puts the stratigy and flow of the battle firmly in the hands of the Lost player. The only thing that the Khorne player can do to prevent this is worse than letting it happen (not moving the rest of his units to back up his ragers) as it lets his army come into combat piecemail, and allows for more turns of shooting to thin thier numbers. Furthermore once the bloodthirster gets locked into close combat he's stuck untill he kills all of his opponents or he dies himself. He might get loose and cause some meyham, but then again he could just as easily be charged solo vs a squad of daemonettes and get killed in 2 turns of CC. This is the only non-tank unit that has much say on where he's going.

Arizzar said:
Overall, leadership can be a big factor.
Maby the mutants are leadership 10 though (with their AC).

Arizzar said:
Frenzy will most likely give the khorne player the charge
Yup into traitors and how are they going to avoid wasting their potential on them? I have no idea.

Arizzar said:
, should a large mutant squad get close enough to threaten a charge the defiler can drop a pie plate on them. That defiler can hardly avoid hitting one of the mutant squads, and has a fair chance of either chasing them off or pinning them. Both play right into the khorne players hands. If one of the mutant squads runs early, then that can mean the game right there.
The defiler if it's shooting at mutants is a waste of time, cause it will just mean that it's not shooting at the basilisk. the basilisk will kill more points of beserkers than the defiler will of mutants. This will thin Khornite numbers even more and they can't afford to be outnumbered in CC.

Arizzar said:
I would love to fight that Lost army, since I see some potential in it, but Khorne seems stronger.
(I'm not picking on Arizzar in particular, it's just his post seemed the most pertinant to rebut.)

Pity I wonder how many voters have actually seen a battle of world eaters vs lost and the damned? My personal experience is that World Eaters particularly struggle against Lost. In fact there is a thread about that in the Armies section of the Chaos forum. Yet I see all these votes for World Eater, and it makes me wonder are these people basing thier votes on facts and statistics, or on reputation? I have to conclude the later. It truly is sad.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
389 Posts
JORMAGI said:
Yet I see all these votes for World Eater, and it makes me wonder are these people basing thier votes on facts and statistics, or on reputation? I have to conclude the later. It truly is sad.
If you expect people to only vote when they have played those exact two armies against each other, then I think you miss the point of this whole votewar. The very reason why we vote is that people are likely to have different opinions. If you think that is sad, then that is your loss.

Arizzar
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Arizzar said:
If you expect people to only vote when they have played those exact two armies against each other, then I think you miss the point of this whole votewar. The very reason why we vote is that people are likely to have different opinions. If you think that is sad, then that is your loss.

Arizzar
I do not expect this at all. All I can ask for is that voters get over the Khorne iz teh uberz in hth and can't loose in a hth brall mentality, and to recognize that while Khorne is an effecitve list, that mutants are an ideal counter to beserkeres. Realize that mutants are the same price as a basic guard. Are more durable than orc's in hand to hand (due to a slightly better armor save) And there are 2 powerfists with 4 attacks each without the charge.

I have shown with reliable statistics, that have not been refuted, that (on average) only half of the beserkers are going to make it across the table. To fight the mutants. The rest will be outnumbered 3 to 1

I have again shown with relable statistics that have not been refuted that the beserkers cannot afford to be outnumberedl in a combat if they expect to win.

Add to this 2 extra close combat squads other than mutants that in themselves match numbers with probable survival of beserkers. Daemonettes with the capability to ravage (not qite wipe out but close) a beserker squad in a single turn of combat (each subsiquent turn they kill less but impressive numbers considering the points) the furies while not as effective in CC vs beserkers will either leave it's mark still, or could chase down a blood- thirster and kill him in 2 close combat rounds should he get away from the genreal close combat.

That is it, my 3 posts, I see no reason to continue to drive facts down people throats as I have already clearly stated the evidence, and unless specificly asked for further comment I leave this thread for others to sort out.

jormagi, standing alone on the statistical high ground.
:cry: (it's lonely up here.)
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
389 Posts
JORMAGI said:
I have again shown with relable statistics that have not been refuted that the beserkers cannot afford to be outnumberedl in a combat if they expect to win.
I have deliberately chosen not to continue the discussion, since that is not really the purpose of this thread.

I would love to continue this in the Chaos forum :yes:

Arizzar
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,109 Posts
Lost and the Damned

After listening to both sides arguments, especialy well done Jorgmagi btw. I conclude that LatD have an advantage. Jorgmagi's maths is accurate. The WE will fingd themselves ultimatly tar pitted in a unit with multiple powerfists killing them as easily as they would normal CSM.

Shooting wise. 2 Preds will probably take a while to down the Russ with no return fire. 1 Basalisk will do far more dammage shooting at juicy WE targets than a Defiler shooting at Muties/Traitors.

Obliterators can jump from behind cover to target Preds/plasma WE along with traitors. 9 Daemonettes on the charge ought to kill 4.5 WE just from rending and annother 1.5 from their other attacks. Just the Khorne Aspiring champion will find it hard to win combat (5 attacks, 3 hit, 3 wound 2 dead) outnumbered 4 to 1 so aload of extra saves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
40 bezerkers could easily beat 56 mutants in cc. But what about the shooting before hand? All those pie plates landing on the bezerkers and those ml, flamer, and lasgun shots will pretty much destroy the bezerker squads. The defiler will kill alot of the traitors and mutants but the obliterators will destroy it along with the predators. If it weren't for the scenario I might actually vote WE, but the bezerkers will never be able to hold on to the loot.

Therefore I vote for the Lost and the Damned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
Yet I see all these votes for World Eater, and it makes me wonder are these people basing thier votes on facts and statistics, or on reputation? I have to conclude the later. It truly is sad.
[rant]Personally I would find this extremely insulting if I'd already voted. Seriously, this and other comments you've made are extremely rude, extremely arrogant and utterly pointless. Stop.

Your oppinion differing from others does not mean that they all know nothing of lost and the damned and believe khorne will win based on khorne's reputation. Look at the score for this Khorne list. Doesn't 2 points suggest to you that maybe people haven't been voting on reputation, but rather on honest thought?
[/rant]

Personally, I'm seeing this one as fairly even. The guns are about matched, but in my oppinion given that the berserkers will get the charges (they move within 12" of the mutants and then charge the next turn, completely ignoring the 7-10" margin that the mutants can reliably charge), this gives them an edge.

definitely agree the basilisk and defiler cancel each other out. One will kill the other relatively quickly, but there's no way to calculate that, so I'm going to pretend they miss each other the entire game, for simplicities sake.

Your statistics depend on the logic that every single unit is in close combat with every single other unit at the same time. They're inherently flawed in this way.

Trying to set up exceedingly complex situations and working out probabilities for those situations to prove that one side will win is like saying "assuming the world is taken over by green aliens wielding laser weaponry, my basement will be safer than yours." It just doesn't make a plausible argument.

So for me, I think I see a slight edge in the berserkers, but personally I don't consider myself quite knowledgable enough, so I think there's probably something I'm missing. For that reason, I won't vote.

I'm done for this battle.
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
So the greater demon and demon prince can take on an entire squad of mutants:

The chaos player is smart, so he will contact only 2 models, in all honesty, he wouldnt assault anywhere near the powerfist, but what ever...

Greater Demon: 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds.

Demon Prince: 8 attacks, 5 hits, 4 wounds.

The chaos player is smart, so he will contact only 2 models, in all honesty, he wouldnt assault anywhere near the powerfist, but what ever...

So if mustants are in base to base: 16 mutants, however, they would be minus 7 since they lost models.

The demon prince is the easer of the 2 to kill so:

18 attacks: 9 hits, 1 wound, 3+ armour holds + 4 feel no pain if something odd happens..

4 powerfist attacks: 2 hit, 2 wound. 4+ invunerable, so 1 wound on the prince..

Mutatants lost combat, -2 Leadership from demonic viserage. So they need to pass on 8 Leadship, they probably wound.

Next turn,

Demon Prince, 7 attacks, 5 hits, 4 wounds.
Greater Demon, 5 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds.

again 7 dead.

13 mutants: uhh? well mutatants hit the demon prince easer, but he makes armour saves easier... Anyway, you need to attack who your in base to base with, so its reasonable that 7 go on demon princes, and 6 go on the big dude

14 attacks: 7 hits, 1 wound, 0 wounds scored on the demon prince.

12 attacks, 2 hits, 0 wounds.

4 powerfist attacks from the dude with powerfist- 4 attacks, on the demon prince, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 wound inflicted, demon prince now has 2 wounds left.

WE win combat: Demonic viserage -2, out numbered -1. (2 monsterus chreatures = 20 models) Theyd probably fail this test, even if they dont, they will next turn.

So by the end of turn 3, the first squad of mutants will be totaly destoryed.

This still leaves a full strenth greater demon, and a half to 1/4th strenth demon prince.

That pretty much ends all hopes for LATD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
So by the end of turn 3, the first squad of mutants will be totaly destoryed.
Round 3, but good points
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
hmm just one more post

Umm 8 powerfist attacks, pluss with those numbers the lord is likely to miss one save, he'll probably die second round. Also there are 2 powerfists spread across a facing that must be charged. It'll be hard to avoid both.
They together against 1 mutant squad does have a good chance. They had better together they're almost double the points.

and theWamp, I'm sorry I came across harsh, I was frustrated by seeing people voting against the Lost in the matchup that I expected to be easiest to win. In that frustration I forgot it's only a game. . .errr simulation of a game. Therfor I offer apology to you and anybody else who was offended by my posts.

And now I'm really done.
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
I didnt see the other fist, it wont matter much, neither would be able to strike the first round of CC, unless all of them in where base to base contact, which is redcus, as the battle cannon would just remove a pie plate full of them.

Anyway, i was just illustrating how dominating korn is, over this LATD list.

Which are only a little bit more firepower, and far less CC ability.

We havent even talking about bolt pistols... which will tear lots of mutants to peices.

The mutants are SV 5+ in CC, with the profile of IG, except, they are 4 toughness.

Korn will shread this,

So its reasonable to assume that the korn breakers will put 2 squads on each mutant squad, + an HQ.

The other stuff, is so easily whiped out, its not worth mensioning...

56 attacks: 37 hits, 19 wounds, 13 dead.
4+/3+

So over the half the squad of mutants is dead before they can strike, Honestly, the powerfist wont be making attacks. OR they are already dead. Id thing the latter is most likely. However we can play mericals i suppose...

Aspiring champ attacks? the infantry or HQ?

Infantry - 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 dead.

Boss, i dont think your boss can get the bonus for 2 CCWs, since hes already got +1 attack from something, however it doesnt say anything for sure about this, so ill give you the advantage:

3 attacks, 1.5 hits, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 2 dead.

4 Brezerks die.

OR

Champ on demon prince, 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 damaged wound.

Boss, 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, (6 strenth) 50-50 4+ inverable. Anyway, this would most likely score nothing. Since, youve got a 50-50 chance of getting 2 hits, as Apose to one in the first place, and then only a 25% chance to hurt him. So 0 wounds.

Demon princes 3 wounds left.

Eitherway- Korn win combat,

Against the greater demon, 4 attacks, 1 hit, 1 wound, 50-50 chance, you score a wound. so 3 wounds left for him.

And, the other dude, 1 hit, 1 wound, invunerable holds. so 3 total wounds left.

Now the korn powerfists, So this is against each mutant squad: 10 attacks, 7 hits, 6 wounds.

So total dead in each mutant squad - 13 + 4 or 3 + 6 = 23 dead or 22 dead.

Now the mutants have 5 or 6 guys left, against monsterus creature - 10 + 12 korn, = 22.

6 man squad, is outnumbered 3 to one, so minus -3 + demonic viserage, minus 5. They are swept advanced.

5 man squad, is out numbered 4 to one, -4, they will most likely fall back, and be swept advanced.

Any questions?
 

·
Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
Yes. both the Boss mutant and aspiring champion don't count as independant characters, so you can't allocate your attacks to them, and they get their attacks simply by supporting the rest of the unit.

I think the WE will win on the basis that the LatD have 2 units keeping them in the game, whereas the world eaters have their entire army.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
I disagree with your analysis JORMAGI. It sounds like you play those Khorne players who set up their units in a giant bunch at the edge of their deployment zone, in the center of the board. I am sure you mop the floor with them because your army is excellently designed, but ...

You covered the defiler v. basilisk fight. You did not adequately cover the fact that mutants are a better target than berzerkers. It is very hard to miss the mutants squads. If the bassie direct-fires on berzerkers a pred will kill it. If the bassie indirect fires it will probably not get a direct hit, meaning it will only kill 2-3 of 8 guys. If the defiler wins your artillery duel, or just ignores the bassie ... it might die ... but it might also land a template on the edge of a mutant mob and blow up about 10 mutants.

You did not adequately cover the 2 HQ choices, you just said they go down to numbers. These two HQ choices can engage a whole squad of mutants on their own, and they will do very well. The 'thirster could hold up and almost destroy a whole squad of mutants.

Also, like you said, the 'thirster doesn't bloodrage, so it can hop around. What's to say the 'thirster doesn't hit the infiltrating traitor squads? It could kill the whole squad and consolidate into another one, then hit the mutants when the zerkers arrive. It will not become "tied up" in combat with anything, unless it charges the mutants. And when it does that, Khorne can also cause you to fail morale checks with the demon, even with your champs.

Khorne could also charge into an area where mutants can be removed, opening up that 2" gap and preventing powerfist retaliation. That thread you mention ... Anducassius suggested the EXACT same thing to Garnoth. Good model placement on the charge could render your hidden champs useless.

You also forgot that Garnoth said, after he attacks with his lord and a unit of 8, it's just the powerfist guys and a few mutants standing, and then they pile in. Garnoth had fewer 'zerkers than your opponent in this match. If Garnoth got a unit of 25 mutants+AC down to just the powerfist guys and a couple of mutants then even a couple of half-strength khorne squads and the chaos lord OR the 'thirster will do the job nicely.

Also, don't your traitors have to summon the daemons? How will they do that if the Khornate units "mist them" on turn 1?
I will say that, if they daemons all emerge, Khorne has their work cut out for them, but if your traitors are dead, that won't happen.

Khorne wins but it's very close.

Look, this LaTD army is one of the coolest armies I have seen in a while. It obviously wins on fluff and I am tempted to score the match a draw because it is a very powerful, well-designed army. JORMAGI, you're gonna make things worse for everyone in the next votewar if you can't take losing any better. You thrashed my Slaanesh guys in the first round. Bravo. My army got its a$$ kicked in the next battle as well, and it wins about 80% of matches where I play. Too bad, so sad.

Sabre

EDIT: Also, what do you think those destroyers on the preds are for? Tank shocking. That would really hurt your mutants, and they are not fast enough to get out of the way.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top