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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type - Secure and Control

The Tempest of Blades - (4 points)
Eldar


HQ - 124 points
Farseer: (Join with scorpions)
Close Combat Weapon and Shuriken Pistol; Fortune

Farseer: (Join with scorpions)
Close Combat Weapon and Shuriken Pistol; Fortune

Elites - 195 points
Vyper:
Starcannon

Vyper:
Starcannon

Vyper:
Starcannon

Troops - 1050 points
Striking Scorpions squad – Eight (8) men
Exarch: Scorpion's Claw
Wave Serpent:Twin-linked Brightlances, Spirit Stones

Striking Scorpions squad – Eight (8) men
Exarch: Scorpion's Claw
Wave Serpent:Twin-linked Brightlances, Spirit Stones

Howling Banshees squad – Nine (9) men.
Exarch: Executioner
Wave Serpen: Twin-linked Brightlances

Warp Spiders – Six (6) men.

Heavy Support - 480 points
Falcon:
Starcannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones

Falcon:
Starcannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones

War Walker:
Two (2) Starcannons

Tactics:
As much as possible starts behind cover. Then, on turn 1, the wave serpent move right up next to the enemy, while the rest of the army takes out the more dangerous portions of the enemy's army. The turn after that, 1 wave serpent is probably down, and the other two squads charge, causing havoc and killing while the fire support kills as much as possible.

Vs mounted armies, this army might need to sit back and shoot down their tanks for a turn before closing in.

Vs armies that can beat this in cc (not many), this army will instead play cat and mouse. Given the incredible meneuverability, this army can avoid them, shooting the whole time. Of course, in this case the war walker will die, but that's all right, really.

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Dark Eldar Wych Cult - (8 points)

Headquarters – 188 points
Wych Archite:
Mask of the damned; Power Weapon; Jet Bike; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Splinter Pistol

Elites – 300 points
Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Troops – 800 points
Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol; Goblet of Spite
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Heavy Support – 345 points
Ravager:
Three (3) Dark Lances

Ravager:
Three (3) Disintegrators

Ravager:
Three (3) Disintegrators

Special – 213 points
Warp beast pack – Six (6) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Five (5) Warp Beasts

Warp beast pack – Six (6) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Five (5) Warp Beasts

Warp beast pack – Five (5) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Four (4) Warp Beasts

Strategy:
(PLEASE READ) Ok since not too many people are familiar with DE, especially the updated codex rules I’ll give a quick run down of some of the wargear and just what this army can do. The updates are posted http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkeld...dex-update.pdf]HERE[/url].

Lets start with the lord. This is a Wych Lord and can therefore take wyches as troops, make warp beast packs not count towards the force organization chart, also removing the 0-1 limit, and warriors count as elites. The Mask of the Damned forces any unit wishing to assault him to take a leadership test, if failed, they may not assault him. After his wargear upgrades he has a 12inch move, S4, T4, I8, WS6, 2+ invulnerable, 4+ wych dodge if the 2+ fails, and 6 power weapon attacks on the charge. This is of course without any benefits he may be gaining from combat drugs. Unlike normal drugs, I get to roll many dice for upgrades if I choose. Plus he’s an IC, so he cannot be targeted.

The 3 warrior squads are standard, but sporting 6 dark lances between them, they pack a punch.

The wych squads are amazing in close combat. The Succubi have agonisers for some quick power weapon kills. Wych weapons do 2 things. Any models in an assault with the wyches lose bonus attacks for having 2 cc weapons. This can effectively halve a squads attacks that are being charged by the wyches. On top of that, any models with a base strength of less than 6 must halve their weapon skill! And lets not forget that wyches will hit 1st against most opponents, and don’t forget combat drugs! The raiders have horrorfexes which basically allow them to pin squads they shoot at with it. One squad has a goblet of spite. This nifty piece of wargear allows every model in the squad to hit on a 3+ regardless of all other factors!

The Ravagers will lay down some heavy fire. 3 dark lances and 6 space marine killing disintegrators pack quite a punch.

The warp beasts are vulnerable to shooting, but hey, there’s 3 of them. Plus there are more pressing targets for the enemy to deal with. They move as cavalry and pack a huge punch in cc.

A few more notes: This army has 13 dark lances! This is more than enough to down any amount of tanks. Plus it has an insane amount of mobility and cc prowess. With all this speed and firepower, plenty will get into cc, where the DE will enviably come out on top.
 

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I keep going back and forth, this would be a heck of a fight. The Eldar's transports are hardier, and if the Eldar can keep 'em in the air until third turn, they'll win as nothing will remain to destroy them. However, they're up against 13 DLs. Crashes on the raiders will hurt the wych squads significantly more than they'll hurt the Scorpions. However, scorpions, with 2 base attacks, 1 of which strikes before the wyches attacks (assuming wyches don't have "strike first") will do quite a bit of damage. It'll be an awesome battle to watch.
 

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This would be one heck of a battle. However, given that the eldar could sit back inside their transports and shoot out all the DE transports/ravagers in about 1 turn, I vote Eldar

And for stats and to make sure this brief vote is counted:

By the way, all ravagers will be counted as succeeding their obscured 4+ thingy since I'm too lazy to calculate stats with penetrating hits

7 starcannons
10.5 hits
5.25 glancing hits vs raiders
2.625 destroyed raiders
3.5 glancing hits vs ravagers
1.75 destroyed ravagers

2 pulse lasers
2 hits
5/3 glancing hits vs raiders
5/6 dead raiders
4/3 glancing hits vs ravagers
2/3 dead ravagers


6 warp spider guns (braindead now, sorry)
8 hits
4 glancing hits vs raiders
2 destroyed raiders (though only one can die, since this is one squad shooting
Probably out of range of ravagers

3 TL bright lances
9/4 hits
15/8 glancing hits vs raiders
15/16 dead raiders
3/2 glancing hits vs ravagers
3/4 dead ravagers

Statistically, with all this firepower, they can take out all 3 ravagers, all 4 raiders and even have a bit of fire to spare. The dark eldar counter attack will be ineffective simply because Dark lances aren't nearly as good anti-tank weapons vs eldar and dark eldar, as starcannons (they're the same vs AV12 and the starcannon is better vs AV10 and AV11), and the eldar transports and falcons are so much more durable, so they will be able to get the charge and shoot the wyches a reasonable amount, both of which will be crucial.

Wow, that was quite a bit longer than the 2-line reply I'd planned.
 

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Yeah, even though there is an insurmountable ammount of Dark Lances, they are basically just missile launchers against the falcons. And the falcons are skimmers, so no penetrating his there... and everything else in the DE list is geared towards assault, and well, there isn't mucht hey can assault and not hit on 6+.

Eldar
 

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i vote eldar
-they can take all the DE tanks in one shooting phase, and foot sloging wyches are screwed VS guys in skimmers.
 

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I'm gonna vote for DE.

I seem to have to say this alot. But the raiders will start behind cover so wont be shot at right away. It seems like everyone votes on an eldar list based on the number of falcons it has... Anyway, the eldar will prob lose a transport a turn, then be assaulted. The falcons will be picked off one by one, then be assaulted. The wyches can kill anything the eldar have in cc.
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
It seems like everyone votes on an eldar list based on the number of falcons it has...
Hmmm... I see that too. Falcons falcons falcons. The eldar shooting statistics are based on everything being able to shoot and everything being in line of sight/in range. The fact is that some eldar transports are going down. And when they do, the cargo will be assaulted and killed.

1 vote for the Dark Eldar.
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
I'm gonna vote for DE.

I seem to have to say this alot. But the raiders will start behind cover so wont be shot at right away. It seems like everyone votes on an eldar list based on the number of falcons it has... Anyway, the eldar will prob lose a transport a turn, then be assaulted. The falcons will be picked off one by one, then be assaulted. The wyches can kill anything the eldar have in cc.
The Eldar list would start behind cover too... The raiders are going to leave cover first, since their list needs to get into cc more. That leaves the eldar to shoot down the DE with relative ease.
 

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A lot of people must play with Vietnam like cover on their tables. Hiding 7 skimmers isn't so easy. As said the Wych cult needs to get into cc badly while the eldar doesn't. That will make them win.

Eldar
 

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TheWamp said:
The Eldar list would start behind cover too... The raiders are going to leave cover first, since their list needs to get into cc more. That leaves the eldar to shoot down the DE with relative ease.
See but the eldar have to come out. The mission is secure and control. So they will be shot at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
numberofthebeastxxx said:
See but the eldar have to come out. The mission is secure and control. So they will be shot at.
So why do the Eldar have to come out for Secure and Control, but the Dark Eldar don't?
 

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Eldar

I don't have the exact numbers, but IIRC it takes 'bout 10 DL shots to down one wave serpent in a turn. That means one of the units (probably scorpions) will get shot down, and then get into CC during the DE turn. However, the scorps will hold themselves well. Meanwhile on the next eldar turn the majority of the dark lances will die and more likely than not that'll decide the battle.
 

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Caluin said:
So why do the Eldar have to come out for Secure and Control, but the Dark Eldar don't?
I didnt say they didnt. Both ahve to come out. I was responding to wamps post that the eldar would sit behind cover till the DE come out.
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
I didnt say they didnt. Both ahve to come out. I was responding to wamps post that the eldar would sit behind cover till the DE come out.
Secure and control means they don't have to be out till turn 6. The game will be over by then
 

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This thread gave me a chuckle, memories of playing cops and robbers as a little kid, arguing who hit who first when shooting each other in make believe.

I suspect a reasonable comprimize would be to say that there will be position jockying on both sides, some shots will be fired on both sides, and both sides are going to do some damage. Unfortunatly it's hard to quantify the usefullness of manuverability on an imaginary table in getting into firing positions.

Both sides have an advantage:
Eldar have more durability on their transports
Dark Eldar have more assault capability

So wich wins? So far it appears to depends on exactly how many targets are aquired, and at what range. I'm not completely convinced either way, but for now my vote lies with the Eldar I think the greater durability will keep more of their transports in the air, and this means that they have greater freedom in choosing their close combat engagements. This should (in theory) balance CC to about a fair fight, but leave more tanks vehicles on the field to hurt the dark eldar outside of CC.
 

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No one will win, both sides will wait behind cover for ages while the players wait for thier opponent to stupidly move out of cover so they can move out shoot them and win.

Whoever gets 2nd turn will win as they can last turn objective grab with impugnity, but seeing as both sides have the same chance of that...
 

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As Wings put, it will be a pretty boring battle anyway, but because the Eldar have more durable vehicles, Im gonna have to vote for them. Armour 10/11 vehicles against Armour 12 with holofields and such. Although its basically whoever gets second turn wins.

Eldar
 

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Silver Wings said:
No one will win, both sides will wait behind cover for ages while the players wait for thier opponent to stupidly move out of cover so they can move out shoot them and win.

Whoever gets 2nd turn will win as they can last turn objective grab with impugnity, but seeing as both sides have the same chance of that...
I'm going to disagree here. If the Eldar get second turn, you're pretty much correct. However, if the Dark Eldar get second turn, then the Eldar will go on the offensive immediately, and be able to get quite a few DE vehicles down (with 12 inches of movement and a 36 inch range on so many shots, and no skimmers moving fast rule it won't be hard).
 
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