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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see [url=http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/t57616-40k-votewar-mkiii-info-thread.html]this thread[/URL] on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

Mission Type - Cleanse

Black Templars - Avalonian Crusade

Headquarters – 305 points
Marshal:
Storm Shield; Master-Crafted Power Weapon; Terminator Honours; Holy Orb of Antioch; Jump Pack

Emperor's Champion:
Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds

Troops – 905 points
Black Templars Crusader Squad – Ten (10) men
Four (4) Initiates armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
Four (4) Neophytes armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) Initiate armed with Powerfist and Bolt Pistol
One (1) Initiate armed with Meltagun
Rhino: Smoke Launchers

Black Templars Crusader Squad – Ten (10) men
Four (4) Initiates armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
Four (4) Neophytes armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) Initiate armed with Powerfist and Bolt Pistol
One (1) Initiate armed with Meltagun
Rhino: Smoke Launchers

Black Templars Crusader Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) Initiates armed with Bolters
One (1) Initiate armed with Missile Launcher
One (1) Initiate armed with Plasma Gun

Black Templars Crusader Squad – Eight (8) men
Six (6) Initiates armed with Bolters
One (1) Initiate armed with Missile Launcher
One (1) Initiate armed with Plasma Gun

Black Templars Crusader Squad – Fourteen (14) men
Seven (7) Initiates armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
Six (6) Neophytes armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) Initiate armed with Powerfist and Bolt Pistol​

Fast Attack - 338 points
Assault Marines Squad – Nine (9) men
Eight (8) Initiates armed with Bolt Pistol and CCW
One (1) Initiates armed with Power Fist and Bolt Pistol

Land Speeder Squadron – One (1) Landspeeder
One (1) armed with Multi-Melta

Land Speeder Squadron – One (1) Landspeeder
One (1) armed with Multi-Melta​

Heavy Support – 290 points
Land Raider Crusader
Blessed Hull; Twin-linked Assault Cannon; Multi-melta; Hurricane Bolter sponsons; Extra Armour

Tactics:
Use the two footslogging squads as a firebase, hunting tanks and MEQs alike with covering fire. The larger Troops squad goes with the Emperor's Champion in the Land Raider Crusader, and the Marshal goes with the Assault Squad. The Land Speeders provide anti-tank support, and the other two Rhino squads support the Assault Squad and EC squad in close combat - the worse WS of the Neophytes is countered by the EC's vow.

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Dark Eldar Wych Cult

Headquarters – 188 points
Wych Archite:
Mask of the damned; Power Weapon; Jet Bike; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Splinter Pistol

Elites – 300 points
Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Warriors squad – Ten (10) men
Eight (8) armed with Splinter Rifles
Two (2) armed with Dark Lances

Troops – 800 points
Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol; Goblet of Spite
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Wyches Squad – Eight (8) men
Seven armed with Wych Weapons; Splinter Pistol and CCW
Succubus: Agonisor and Splinter Pistol
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex.

Heavy Support – 345 points
Ravager:
Three (3) Dark Lances

Ravager:
Three (3) Disintegrators

Ravager:
Three (3) Disintegrators

Special – 213 points
Warp beast pack – Six (6) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Five (5) Warp Beasts

Warp beast pack – Six (6) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Five (5) Warp Beasts

Warp beast pack – Five (5) models
Beast master: Agonizer and Splinter Pistol
Four (4) Warp Beasts

Strategy:
(PLEASE READ) Ok since not too many people are familiar with DE, especially the updated codex rules I’ll give a quick run down of some of the wargear and just what this army can do. The updates are posted http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkeld...dex-update.pdf]HERE[/url].

Lets start with the lord. This is a Wych Lord and can therefore take wyches as troops, make warp beast packs not count towards the force organization chart, also removing the 0-1 limit, and warriors count as elites. The Mask of the Damned forces any unit wishing to assault him to take a leadership test, if failed, they may not assault him. After his wargear upgrades he has a 12inch move, S4, T4, I8, WS6, 2+ invulnerable, 4+ wych dodge if the 2+ fails, and 6 power weapon attacks on the charge. This is of course without any benefits he may be gaining from combat drugs. Unlike normal drugs, I get to roll many dice for upgrades if I choose. Plus he’s an IC, so he cannot be targeted.

The 3 warrior squads are standard, but sporting 6 dark lances between them, they pack a punch.

The wych squads are amazing in close combat. The Succubi have agonisers for some quick power weapon kills. Wych weapons do 2 things. Any models in an assault with the wyches lose bonus attacks for having 2 cc weapons. This can effectively halve a squads attacks that are being charged by the wyches. On top of that, any models with a base strength of less than 6 must halve their weapon skill! And lets not forget that wyches will hit 1st against most opponents, and don’t forget combat drugs! The raiders have horrorfexes which basically allow them to pin squads they shoot at with it. One squad has a goblet of spite. This nifty piece of wargear allows every model in the squad to hit on a 3+ regardless of all other factors!

The Ravagers will lay down some heavy fire. 3 dark lances and 6 space marine killing disintegrators pack quite a punch.

The warp beasts are vulnerable to shooting, but hey, there’s 3 of them. Plus there are more pressing targets for the enemy to deal with. They move as cavalry and pack a huge punch in cc.

A few more notes: This army has 13 dark lances! This is more than enough to down any amount of tanks. Plus it has an insane amount of mobility and cc prowess. With all this speed and firepower, plenty will get into cc, where the DE will enviably come out on top.
 

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i vote DE

-the BT tanks would die to those warriors and raiders

-the BT don't have enough shooting to stop the wyches and warp beasts before they reach CC, and anihilate their squads.
 

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I vote DE.

They can bust the marine tanks and liquify the marines with their guns and they can even out do the marines in cc, and since the marines can't stop them from getting to cc, this game is a foregone conclusion, IMHO.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Hmm...

Black Templars Advantages

1) Preferred Enemy - The WS-reducing effect of the Wyches is pretty much thrown out the window when they are fighting a CC vs. anyone except Neophytes, due to "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds," conferring the PE ability onto the Black Templars. So, that's one DE advantage right out the window.

2) Blessed Hull - The LRC has this upgrade, and this is exactly why it was put in. The "Lance" effect of the Dark Lances does not apply - so, they will need 6's to glance the LRC. Not huge chances there, IMO. Another one of the biggest DE advantages (as far as anti-tank goes) out the window.

3) Bolters/Bolt Pistols - As long as the BT stay in their vehicles, or in some form of cover, they will most likely either be able to shoot the Wyches (a lot) or get the first attacks due to cover. Bolters and Bolt Pistols are more than enough to take out Wyches/Warp Beasts.

4) Land Speeders - These guys will be very good at two things. The first one being, anti-tank. No Raider can survive a Multi-Melta, in most cases, especially when within 12". The second is a cheap distraction - the DE player will either shoot these down (wasting those shots that would otherwise be placed on other, more expensive BT units) or ignore them (getting Raiders/Ravagers shot down).

5) LRC Weapons - Since this baby is very difficult to kill now, due to Blessed Hull, the Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, and Multi-Melta will be extremely useful - shooting down Raiders, Ravagers, Infantry, you name it. The LRC shines against low-T, low-Sv. armies like this.

6) Missile Launchers - Sure, there's only two of them. However, that's probably one downed DE vehicle a turn.. not quite, of course, but close. Maybe. ;) But either way, they are effective anti-vehicle weapons, which is what they would be used for. Or, they'd be used for toasting some Warp Beasts.

Dark Eldar Advantages

1) Speed - Of course, what DE army doesn't have speed? It can be used quite easily to the DE player's advantage, as even when against a mainly mechanised BT army, it is still faster. Not by nearly as much as it would be against a static-ish army, but still, Raiders are faster than Rhinos.

2) Numbers - The DE army has an abundance of troops, moreso than the BT army. This can work very easily in the DE player's advantage, and can (would) be utilised by a skilled player. Also, it gives the BT player a lot of targets, all of which are (almost) equally hard to choose for the kill.

3) Dark Lances - While somewhat nullified, they are still going to be effective against the non-LRC vehicles of the BT list - Rhinos, Land Speeders, etc. Cheap and effective at taking out the standard transports. However, if they neglect the LRC completely, it will wreak havoc on the DE army.

4) Disintegrators - Very good against Marines. Only problem, though, is the whole CC thing - the BT army is CC oriented, and isn't nullified too badly by Wych Weapons, so they will see CC, making the Disintegrators' uses drop significantly. Still, effective at anti-Marine shooting.

5) Warp Beasts - If they hit CC, they will cause havoc, of course. However, they do need to hit CC, and as they are footslogging (and against a mainly mechanised army), they won't see CC as often as the DE player would probably like.

The DE list is a nasty one, but I can't see it being able to dish out enough firepower to stop the Black Templars' vehicles (especially the LRC). Also, the Wych Weapons are nullified against this army, due to Preferred Enemy, so one of the most major CC advantages of the entire list is all but completely gone.

It could get close, definitely. But, even with the mission there, the mech BT would be just as effective, and even more so in some cases (such as shooting). So...

I vote for the Black Templars.

As for fluff, it's too close - both are very, very fluffy, so I'm not going to vote on that one, for now.



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I vote DE.

Besides the fact that they will own in cc, Did you see that wych lord?!! We have to look at the mission here. The mision is made for DE. BT will charge the nearest unit when shot at right? So they can be lead around by their noses. Not only that, the DE have vastly superior mobility. With wych weapons the attacks and WS of the marines will be cut in half. The crusader can be ignored till the end, since pretty much everything will be safe in combat besides the raiders. And once they drop off the cargo there expendable. The rhinoes will be popped using the 13 dark lances, and CC will be quick and brutal. Whatever is left can be shuttled around in the last few turns claiming table courers. This is a victory for DE.
 

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Festo Diata
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Dark Eldar

I almost this same game last Saturday at a tourney in my town. Blessed Hull prevented me from penetrating vehicles at all (2 Crusaders), it's really very effective. The Templar field 50 men and a handful of vehicles, but the DE have strategic advantage and numbers to match.
 

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Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
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Dark Eldar

The land raider goes splutch, the land speeders go splutch, and the rest of the army is close combat orientated. Not a good idea against Wych weapons, as they will lose their +1 attack for additional close combat weapon, and half their weapon skill.

Not pretty.
 

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1 LRC wont swing the tide of battle, shooting down a Raider a turn is ok. But every BT squad is going to be shot to hell by 3 Ravagers. In combat I think despite the BT vow Wyches will probably still do what thier famous for. Negating attacks etc. Laying it down with the Succubus.

Plus the BT has wasted points on Rhino's.

Vote Dark Eldar
 

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I vote DE for the win due to the mission which will involve a lot of hth and witches will own pretty much anyone in hth even if the Templars are hitting them on 3s. Greater speed, 4+ invulnerable save on everyone, witch combat drugs, 2ndary effects of witches beyond reducing WS of their opponents.


One crusader, as dangeous as it is, and I doubt if it will be killed in this battle is not enough to turn the tables.
 

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Ghost of LO
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So, there isnt a weapon in the space marine army that not capable of taking down a raider, which is open topped, seems people forget they die on a 4+ even with glancing hits only. YEP THATS RIGHT you might as well have scored a penetrating hit, except that a 2, only impobilised the vehicle for a single turn, instead of the whole game.

Since the DE cant withstand Space marines shootying, though limited, they still need to get into CC fast, as dodge does nothing to shooting attacks.

the raiders need to move foward, darklances wont do much to that LRC with blessed hull.

Now, given that a landspeeder is able to take down 1 raider per landspeeder, events will unfold like this:

2 downed raiders in the first or second turn of the game from the landspeeders alone.

Wynches get 5+ saves to anyting but CC.

8 rerollable wounds - 6 wounds, 5+ armour save: 4 DEAD. So the squad is at 50%, and pinned.

The landraider does the same thing, and also wastes a bunch of fire, sadly. None the less, another dead raider + 4 dead wynches which are pinned.

That leaves 1 full squad, and one HQ, to take on the entire black templars army. + shooty stuff, which will take out some neofties, but not the black templars.

I vote BTs
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4+ wych dodge if the 2+ fails, and 6 power weapon attacks on the charge. This is of course without any benefits he may be gaining from combat drugs. Unlike normal drugs, I get to roll many dice for upgrades if I choose. Plus he’s an IC, so he cannot be targeted.
Let me get this straight:

You get at 2+ inverable against ALL ATTACKS, No bonus against shooting. IF YOU FAIL THE SAVE IN CC, YOU MAY REROLL THE DICE FOR A 4+ SAVE. Correct so far?

AFTER YOU FAIL THE FIRST 2+ you may never take the 2+ again. Ive heard that from somwhere but never had in confirmed. So?

Your base toughness is 3 so your profile should read: 3(4) For the perpuses of instant death, the emperors champions 6 Strength swords might be quite the plauge.
 

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Some clarifications for folks that seem to never have fought DE.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Wynches get 5+ saves to anyting but CC.
Wyches(On foot) typically have in fact a 6+ save against shooting.

Against shooting they die most horribly.

But due to the fact that they are in fast, open topped vehicles, have fleet of foot and combat drugs that can potentially give them a 12" charge, this is only typically an issue once they have wiped out a squad and are left stranded, or if the Raider gets taken out on turn 1.

And in hand to hand they have a 4+ invulnerable save.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
That leaves 1 full squad, and one HQ, to take on the entire black templars army. + shooty stuff, which will take out some neofties, but not the black templars.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say here. Disintigrators are extremely deadly to power armour, particularly large squads due to the blast template, so the 'shooty' stuff will take out the initiates quite handily as well as neophytes.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
You get at 2+ inverable against ALL ATTACKS, No bonus against shooting. ?
The Shadow field gives a 2+ invulnerable save against anything. Shooting or otherwise.


ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
IF YOU FAIL THE SAVE IN CC, YOU MAY REROLL THE DICE FOR A 4+ SAVE. Correct so far?

No. If the Shadowfield is destroyed then against later attacks the character would get its regular or dodge save.

There is no reroll.


ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
AFTER YOU FAIL THE FIRST 2+ you may never take the 2+ again. Ive heard that from somwhere but never had in confirmed. So?
Correct. Once the Shadowfield is down a DE character is in trouble.

However, in practice this only matters in case of shooting because typically an Archon or Archite in this case is so fast and deadly that no one manages to survive the 2" kill radius to get any return attacks in hth.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Your base toughness is 3 so your profile should read: 3(4) For the perpuses of instant death, the emperors champions 6 Strength swords might be quite the plauge.
Certainly true. But if the emperor's champion went up against the Archite he'd be woefully overclassed although his vow would help a bit.

The Archite has a higher initiative so striking first, higher WS so it will be hitting on 3s as well, a strength of 4 due to the bike(Yes DE bike's increase their strength. Its pretty cheesy, but there it is.), more attacks, a 2+ invulnerable save, combat drugs(so typically rerolling misses and adding 1 to the strength for 5.)

So basically, the Champion would have to be extremely lucky and roll a bunch of invulnerable saves and then hope that the Archite failed its 2+ invulnerable save when he struck back.

Hopefully that helps.

Assuming that players game skill is equal, the Black Templar player would try to shoot down the Archite rather than engage it in HtH.

If HtH happens, hopefully it is with a sacrificial squad so that when the Archite kills them, he/she may be shot at.
 

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Just remember that the Archite is an IC and even though he has a jetbike he cannot be targeted by shooting unless he's the closest unit. Just like any other IC. Oh, and since were assuming both players are equally skilled, we have to assume the DE player will start his transports in cover. So what is the BT player going to shoot at? On the DE turn, he gets a massive charge range and will most likely be in combat by the 1st turn. The BT player has nothing to counter the DE speed and mobility.
 
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