[northoceanbeach]

:ninja: How many do you put in squads/what are your deployment tactics?

I think 12 hits good and hard, but I read they are hard to all fit on the template. I want twelve, but I don't want to lose any.

And the more you have in a squad the better you fair against instability. So what's the deal here. I plan on building my EC to be daemon heavy.

I am also concerned about the mounted nettes. My same question applies to them. Gotta be 6 or 12 though. I need that summoning bonus, especially when you start out the game with little forces on the table. You need those reinforcements quick.

 

[Rabbit]

If you are nettes are going to be tank-popping then 6 is usually sufficient. If they are going to be going after elite troops and the likes, then 8 is enough.

Concernig mounted nettes: Honestly, they aren't usually worth their points. There are some extenuating circumstances where they are superior (for example, if you absolutely need them in c.c. by the second round, summoned off a bike squad), but in general the non-mounted version will dish out more kills.

 

[Greg]

Six is slaneeshes favourite number,
but I bought nine, which should be enought to dish out damage for a reasonable point
score, six for a small army, all nine for a large army.
Don't know much about mounted deamonettes sorry.

 

[Andusciassus]

If they don't fit under the template you just keep on placing them outside it.. They still must be in basecontact though.

 

[shoottokill]

Hrmm... The rules look like the unit has to fall under the large ordinance template - but teh summoning rules aren't terribly clear. I've been playing under the assumption (because that's all I have to work on) that all models must fit under the large ordinancetemplate. ?I have no idea whether or not this is true though

What is clear is that the daemons must be placed at least an inch away from enemy models though - and that all models that can't be placed at that distance are destroyed.

 

[Rork]

Hrmm... The rules look like the unit has to fall under the large ordinance template - but teh summoning rules aren't terribly clear. I've been playing under the assumption (because that's all I have to work on) that all models must fit under the large ordinancetemplate. ?I have no idea whether or not this is true though

Yes. Daemons still use the ordnance template to deploy.

Since it isn't deep strike, none of those rules, such as deploying in BtB, apply to summoning.

 

[JORMAGI]

Yes, and because of that they still have to fit in the template, that said as long as you don't scatter into another squad the max squad size will fit. 12 should be ok. When I play I use 10 daemonettes, and there is plenty of elbow room in there, as long as the template isn't wandering into another unit. . .
(I play black legion/lost and the damned though so I don't care about favored #'s in my armies. I use 10 'cause that's how many came in my daemonette box. Well that and they've been good to me.)

 

[Sabrewulf]

'Nettes shouldn't be outnumbered in close combat because they should ALWAYS plunge in alongside another unit, preferably Marines with the Mark of Slaanesh. They also rarely lose close combats if you use them correctly, so instability, though dangerous, doesn't come into play often.

The more units you have, the better chance of one arriving.

So two units of 6 will get your daemons on the board faster. I use groups of six and they work great.

Stay away from mounted daemonettes unless you go above 1500 points.

IMHO,

Sabre

 

[Andusciassus]

I looked around a bit for it since I know I seen this issue debated before. Couldn't find it now but I'm rather sure that you will not need to fit them all under the template.

The question was then raised due to the few number of Screamers you'd fit under the template. They are allowed 10 in aunit, but that would be an impossibility.

I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.

 

[Sabe]

I'm with Andusciassus...I've seen it somewhere that you just keep lapping them around, this in't something new either, its been around for awhile. Thing is the summoning rules were made when all deepstrikes used to be done that way, with models having to go under the ordnance template, but if you went over then you just kept lapping around. Can't remember where I saw this though.

 

[Tones]

6 or 12? 6 is, in my opinion, too small, and 12 is too large. I'm going to have to ignore what you said and also recommend 8. I found 8 to be the perfect number in my Slaanesh army. I found that the negatives for summoning were not particularly harsh; rarely was there a time that I wanted them out on turn 2 as opposed to turn 3. But if you're insistent on playing 6 or 12, try it out to see which is best, because I can see the problems with both.

 

[Grey]

The ordanance template isn't used for deep striking any longer. Now you just place a model, roll for deviation as required and start looping off that model.

They CAN(and often do if you're Deep Striking say a big squad of Terminators) expand past the big ordanance circle's size. In fact, according to the rulebook, you don't even need to use that template. Its a hold over from a previous edition.


The CSM Codex was put out prior to the Big Black Book, and as such mentions using the template to summon daemons, but the 'BBB' rules for deepstriking should supercede the Codex in this matter.

PG:84 of the Big Black Book.


I guess you might need to still use the template for daemons initially though since you have to have the spacing when you're deploying off of an icon.

So the real question is whether you think that this does not count as deep strike.

As further evidence, Fleshhounds come on cavalry bases and also need to be summoned. They can come in packs of up to 10, and I doubt that you could fit them all under an ordanance template.

The only other(than daemonettes) lesser daemon that could hit the sacred number is plaguebearers at 14, and although I'm not certain, I think you'd have trouble fitting that under an ordanance pie plate.

Further(circumstantial perhaps) evidance that daemon summoning now sets up like all other deep striking units as regards to placement at least.

Only problem I can see with big units is the increased chance of losing some if they deploy within 1" of an enemy.

 

[northoceanbeach]

Ok, but I thought that it's part of the rules that the codex always supercedes the main rulebook.

 

[Grey]

Heh. Well, sometimes. And sometimes the rulebook overrides the codex. Particularly when the rulebook is more recent.


But the CSM Codex came out in 2002 I believe and still includes rules for sweeping assaults which were gotten rid of by the BBB when that came out in 2004.


At least thats what the copyrights on my two books tell me.

So, I'd tend to go with the rulebook over the codex, since its newer.

 

[Xardian]

Catch to using the big book is: Summoning is not Deepstrike. Much like a Callidus Assassin's Polymorphine is not Deepstrike.

Take a look at the FAQ, for instance. It states that any unit with a special rule that also appears in the main rulebook uses the main book's version instead. But, daemons don't use the Deepstrike special sule. They use Summoned, which has a different set of restrictions and a different procedure. So you basically have to just go with what it says in the codex.