Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
No King Rules Forever
Joined
·
284 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, I know this isn't gonna make me a very popular guy (especially among Adepta Sororitas purists), but I posted my tentative army list on the forum and the one thing I really noticed was the fact that people kept on telling me to put in more Veteran Superiors. "You need the Faith Points!" they would say. "Without Faith Points and Acts of Faith, you might as well just take Allied Marines!" I would like to reply that these people are WRONG. It's specifically stated in the codex that Acts of Faith are minor miracles that provide a little extra help in difficult situations. They're not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of Witchhunters armies, especially not when you have a 1000-point army with an Inquisitor Lord for an HQ choice and a squad of Stormtroopers as one of the troops choices instead of a pure force of Battle Sisters. An employee of Games Workshop even stated that "Acts of Faith are very powerful weapons, but learn to use them as a supplement to your battle plans rather than the crux, as sometimes they might fail you at the most inopportune time."
Warhammer 40,000 - Witch Hunter

Now, with that in mind, can it be said that Acts of Faith are somewhat overrated nowadays, especially in a "mixed" Witchhunters army?
 

·
durus
Joined
·
2,578 Posts
Acts of Faith are worthwhile and important, but they are a tool that must be used properly like any other tool.

I really only use Divine Guidance and Spirit of the Martyr. Occasionally I'll use the Passion, but never Hand of Emperor or Light of the Emperor.

To me, Divine Guidance is the way to kill Heavily armoured troops and Big 'Zilla bugs and Spirit of the Martyr is the way to keep my Cannoness tying up a lot of expensive troops all on her own.

It is worth the points you pay for the Sister Superiors, if only for the wargear and the Leadership and Faith Points are bonusses!8Y
 

·
Suffer not the Unclean
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
Light of the Emperor is brilliant! Never forget to use Light of the Emperor. Forcing a squad that's below half to auto-rally can throw your opponent for quite the loop and keep a lot of victory points on the table.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
spirit of the martyr caused my opponent to not even target my unit of seraphims, they continued on the next turn to demolish 2 fire prisms. invulnerable 3+ save, omigosh rediculous?

with all personal anncedotes aside, AoF are a little different in the codex then what you said: "small miracles that if used at the right time can turn the tide of battle. i think multiple players here can attest to AoFs playing a major roll in winning a game on at least more then one occasion. like diggums said, the points are worth the extra attack alone, the faith points are just a nice sugar coating on the cake.
 

·
The Biker Marine
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
I played valid (IMHO) lists with no VSS upgrades. 1K lists with some Inquisitorial elements might possibly get you 2 or 3 Faith Points (no Canoness), and since I usually do not give my VSS any gear anyway, I might decide to spend those 30pts elsewhere. It all depends on how your list looks/plays. However, if you are going all-out Sororitas, Faith is essential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Acts of Faith are worthwhile and important, but they are a tool that must be used properly like any other tool.

Nicely put, Diggum. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Keep in mind that Faith is one of the fundamental elements that makes Sisters different (and better...and more interesting...imho) than ALL other armies (yes, better and more interesting than ALL, I said it :-D).

Arguing to not use faith is kind of like... say, arguing for only having one arm. Probably fine until the day you want to...I dunno...open a jar, because then you're like CRAP I should've invested in that other arm. But more than likely, if you never had the other arm, you'd just be like, MAN THESE JARS ARE HARD and not even realize how good a two armed man's got it.



Ok that didn't make a lot of sense. So how bout this,
Defiler's bearing down on your girlies, you've got a cannoness with a cloak, jump pack, and evis. She bravely throws herself in its path and takes it on.

You can choose to either a) ignore faith, and let the defiler crush you, or you can b) pick up an asterisk on that 2+ and hang around long enough to saw it in half.

hmmm...hmmm... I PICK A!. (er...scratch that)

Every dice roll can "let you down," but as Diggum said, it's a tool like anything else, and isn't the objective of putting a list together is to give yourself the best and most tools you can?
 

·
Nightlord
Joined
·
1,795 Posts
Nicely put, Diggum. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Keep in mind that Faith is one of the fundamental elements that makes Sisters different (and better...and more interesting...imho) than ALL other armies (yes, better and more interesting than ALL, I said it :-D).

Arguing to not use faith is kind of like... say, arguing for only having one arm. Probably fine until the day you want to...I dunno...open a jar, because then you're like CRAP I should've invested in that other arm. But more than likely, if you never had the other arm, you'd just be like, MAN THESE JARS ARE HARD and not even realize how good a two armed man's got it.



Ok that didn't make a lot of sense. So how bout this,
Defiler's bearing down on your girlies, you've got a cannoness with a cloak, jump pack, and evis. She bravely throws herself in its path and takes it on.

You can choose to either a) ignore faith, and let the defiler crush you, or you can b) pick up an asterisk on that 2+ and hang around long enough to saw it in half.

hmmm...hmmm... I PICK A!. (er...scratch that)

Every dice roll can "let you down," but as Diggum said, it's a tool like anything else, and isn't the objective of putting a list together is to give yourself the best and most tools you can?
A great point, and your example does make sense too. Faith is a great part of the army, turning those bolters and flamers into ap1 on 6s, and transforming your save into invulnerable really can fill up the holes the army would normally have. When used properly acts of faith can make your army last longer and do more damage, how could you not want that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Acts of Faith are definitely not overrated... More like the reverse actually! Once you start using them properly, some opponent might even start to cry cheese. IG players, as they see your squad run across the table unscathed by battlecannons, will be especially unhappy.

Now, that being said, AoF is an absolute must... in a SoB army! You seem to have made an hydrid inquisitorial/SoB army. From experience, it's a very cool army fluff and look wise. But it's rather inefficient. You don't get enough faith, so the SoB "wing" suffers (the one arm parable is quite good!) and you don't get enough inquisitorial force to overwhelm you enemy (inq. stuff is costly and usually has to be able to survive attrition to get to the opponent's forces).

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
on the subject of faith: I'm a nid player. I love the look and fluff of the sisters but i'm quite confused about faith. I have a player at my local store and his army is rough.....real rough!! he runs 2 canninesses, 3 exorcists, seraphim, and some others... sisters with rhinos, like 4 rhinos.. and incorporates the rhino wall heavily. Anyway he uses faith like its going out of style and i feel its a huge back bone in his army... So my question to you is... how do i nullify... or otherwise make it hard for him to use these awesome yet, again coming from a nid player, devastating powers?
 

·
Always Fabulous
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Well you could start off by telling him that his army is illegal as you can only ever have one Canoness at any given time. Other than that, there is no real way to counter acts of faith - by taking Veteran Superiors and other faithful units, the damage has already been done because they have served their purpose - generating faith points. Killing them simply generates more and that last unit is always the toughest to crack. A good Sisters player is very difficult to manage thanks to acts of faith. I do agree, however, that they're pretty good without them but not "good enough". If you think about it, a Sisters army will probably outnumber Marines shot for shot on the offensive - what lets them down is their lower toughness which makes it more difficult for them to win in a straight-up firefight. This is where the Supreme Acts of Filthiness (tm) come in and tip the scales in their favour.

(Disclaimer: :p)
 

·
The Allmighty Chaos Boots
Joined
·
814 Posts
The main thing about faith is that units of spicif sizes want to be at specifi ranges.

A large squad want to be at rapid fire range to use rending bolters to wipe your squads. a small squad wants to be stuck in cc to keep you stuck in cc using invo saves.

Main thing to win against sisters is to never let them rapid fire. keep them at range so their bolters are less intimidating. or engage them in cc where they absolutly stink.

charge large units and outshoot small ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Well you could start off by telling him that his army is illegal as you can only ever have one Canoness at any given time.
I wasnt aware of two cannoness being illegal, if could point me in the direction of the rule which states that....that would be greeeeat.

otherwise, it could potnetially be fielded as a palatine
 

·
Suffer not the Unclean
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
There are no restrictions on taking SoB Heroines. ILords yes, GK Heroes yes, but you can have two canonesses if you want.

Really only a 'Balanced' nid list or a 'stealer shock should struggle much against sisters. Faith is near meaningless against a gaunt swarm, and 'nid-zilla comes down to a dice game. Either the exorcists get lucky in the first two turns, or they don't. I frankly tend to play for tie anymore against people who show up with 'nidZilla armies. Maybe it's just spiteful on my part, but I've had enough of them.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
307 Posts
Faith is indeed of less use against a Gaunt list, but that doesn't mean they'll do well. Faith is also of less use against Orks, and sisters can well take on Orks. The thing is both Gaunts and Orks are appallingly vulnerable to massed flamers and bolters. The sisters getting no benefit out of DG is of little consolation when they flat kill on 2+ or 3+ with template weapons against large closely packed squads. 20 strong units just evaporate.

Battle squads can take up to three flamer weapons, backed up with a lot of good bolter fire, easily enough firepower to wipe out a large squad. When each battle, celestian and seraphim squad can wipe out an enemy unit in a single turn then most of an army can be destroyed. I've had massed 'nid armies poised to attack, then my sisters rush out and counterattack and my opponents entire attacking force is wiped away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Faith is indeed of less use against a Gaunt list, but that doesn't mean they'll do well. Faith is also of less use against Orks, and sisters can well take on Orks. The thing is both Gaunts and Orks are appallingly vulnerable to massed flamers and bolters. The sisters getting no benefit out of DG is of little consolation when they flat kill on 2+ or 3+ with template weapons against large closely packed squads. 20 strong units just evaporate.

Battle squads can take up to three flamer weapons, backed up with a lot of good bolter fire, easily enough firepower to wipe out a large squad. When each battle, celestian and seraphim squad can wipe out an enemy unit in a single turn then most of an army can be destroyed. I've had massed 'nid armies poised to attack, then my sisters rush out and counterattack and my opponents entire attacking force is wiped away.
Yeah and against a zilla list ( i run 4 carnis and 2 hive tyrants ) that ap 1 bolter fire kills! I use mainly a shooty list... lots of devorers and venom cannons... with some stealers to mop up. This is my tourny list for this saturday http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/tyranid-army-lists/113164-2000-pt-tourny-shooty-stealers.html any tips on target priority against a sisters list with 3 exocists, rhino walls, cannonesses and seriphim?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
There are times when faith doesn't matter at all.
Those times seem to be coincide with when inducted IG are useful.

One consistent usage of faith is the small sisters squad in CC who has been whittled down by a power weapon. "Spirit of the Martyr" can help a unit last several extra rounds in CC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Alright, I know this isn't gonna make me a very popular guy (especially among Adepta Sororitas purists), but I posted my tentative army list on the forum and the one thing I really noticed was the fact that people kept on telling me to put in more Veteran Superiors. "You need the Faith Points!" they would say. "Without Faith Points and Acts of Faith, you might as well just take Allied Marines!" I would like to reply that these people are WRONG. It's specifically stated in the codex that Acts of Faith are minor miracles that provide a little extra help in difficult situations. They're not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of Witchhunters armies, especially not when you have a 1000-point army with an Inquisitor Lord for an HQ choice and a squad of Stormtroopers as one of the troops choices instead of a pure force of Battle Sisters. An employee of Games Workshop even stated that "Acts of Faith are very powerful weapons, but learn to use them as a supplement to your battle plans rather than the crux, as sometimes they might fail you at the most inopportune time."
Warhammer 40,000 - Witch Hunter

Now, with that in mind, can it be said that Acts of Faith are somewhat overrated nowadays, especially in a "mixed" Witchhunters army?
I don't play WH, but my Necrons face them all the time. Acts of Faith scare the crap out of me. Here are some examples:
1. I Veiled 10 Immortals and a Lord to shoot Seraphim. They scattered out of sight and lost two to the corner of a building. His Seraphim then jumped into range and hit me with Divine Guidance. With the twin-linked hand flamers and bolt pistols, he killed almost the entire squad and the Lord (some melta retributors helped). That's 9 T5 models, 11 wounds, and about 450 points. Game over.
2. Divine guidance makes it really hard to move a rhino up, drop marines, and rapid fire. The return fire with DG flamers and bolters means you win that round.
3. My friend took on a Demon Prince with a Cannoness and the other HQ using SoM and the Passion. It saved them from being instakilled and they won the fight. The only way to keep your T3 HQs alive long enough to be effective is SoM. My Destroyers would instakill them with one failed save, otherwise, and they don't even deny the regular armor save.
4. Even the strength bonus Act has had its moments in the games I've seen. Use it with SoM and a the Passion and you go first. Use it with SoM and an Eviscerator and you can wound anything. I've had to start using a Destroyer Lord with a Warscythe just to eliminate the threat of that SoM.

In short, your Acts of Faith allow your low S, low T models to operate way above their normal capabilities. Without them, your troops and HQs aren't very frightening, especially to Necrons or MEQ units they'll have trouble killing. Don't get me wrong, I've had trouble with funky Penitent Engine, Arco, Assassin lists that don't really need Acts (and don't have the faith points to use them), but for a standard Sisters kind of list, they're invaluable.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top