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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Another one of those, My first SW (1850)

My tactic would be to have the rune priest join the Blood Claws on their walk across the table while he shoots some Living Lightning, The Blood Claws will hopefully distract the opponent a bit from the Long Fang so they have thier go with thier 15 heavy weapons. The 5-man Grey Hunters will embark into the Land Raider turn 1 and probably stay at home for objective grabbing. The long fangs Drop Pod will be dropped empty to make 2 pod come down turn one.

And about the Power on the rune priest, I can't really take things like JOTWW because im from Sweden where we use a composition system and I really don't want this list to go any lower. Though I might take Storm Caller instead of Fury.

Rune Priest 120
Terminator armor, Living Lightning, Fury of the Wolf Spirits

15 Blood Claws Pack @ 225 pts
2x Flamer, Power Weapon
Wolf Guard with PW @28pts

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
Flamer, Plasma
Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
2x Melta
Drop Pod
5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 75 pts
Flamer

5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 120 pts
Melta
Razorback
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 75 pts
Flamer

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 170 pts
Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x3
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 125 pts
Heavy Bolter x3; Missile Launcher x2
Wolf Guard with Terminator armor and Cyclone ML @ 63 pts

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 195 pts
Missile Launcher x3; Plasma Cannon x2
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts
Drop Pod

Land Raider @ 250 pts
(Bought as a Dedicated for my Wolf Guards)

Total of 1800 pts
If I chose to play this list it would be in a 1850 pts tournament so there is some points left. What do you think about it?
 

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(I know the army size isn't at the title, tried to edit it

My tactic would be to have the rune priest join the Blood Claws on their walk across the table while he shoots some Living Lightning, The Blood Claws will hopefully distract the opponent a bit from the Long Fang so they have thier go with thier 15 heavy weapons. The 5-man Grey Hunters will embark into the Land Raider turn 1 and probably stay at home for objective grabbing. The long fangs Drop Pod will be dropped empty to make 2 pod come down turn one.

And about the Power on the rune priest, I can't really take things like JOTWW because im from Sweden where we use a composition system and I really don't want this list to go any lower. Though I might take Storm Caller instead of Fury.

Rune Priest 120
Terminator armor, Living Lightning, Fury of the Wolf Spirits


You should try Murderous Hurricane instead of Fury of the Wolf Spirits. It works quite well and it auto-hits. I would also suggest dropping the terminator armour and giving him a chooser of the slain instead.

15 Blood Claws Pack @ 225 pts
2x Flamer, Power Weapon
Wolf Guard with PW @28pts


I'm guessing these guys go in the crusader? They're going to roll over the moment an MC makes contact with them as they have no power fist. With the extra 10pts you would have by dropping the Libby's terminator armour you could upgrade the WG to have a PF.

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
Flamer, Plasma
Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
2x Melta
Drop Pod


5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 75 pts
Flamer

5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 120 pts
Melta
Razorback
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts


What is the 5-man flamer pack for? Are you just going to hold them in reserve and let them out to take your objective near the end of the game? It might be better to drop the WG in the 5 man Razorback unit, combine it with the other 5 man unit, and change the razorback for a rhino. That way you have a good size, mobile unit seeing as the drop pod units can't move that far without a transport.

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 170 pts
Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x3
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 125 pts
Heavy Bolter x3; Missile Launcher x2
Wolf Guard with Terminator armor and Cyclone ML @ 63 pts

5 Long Fangs Pack @ 195 pts
Missile Launcher x3; Plasma Cannon x2
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts
Drop Pod

Land Raider @ 250 pts
(Bought as a Dedicated for my Wolf Guards)


I like how you only mix weapons with missile launchers. Thats a good practice because you can use MLs on pretty much anything so even if you lose your pack master you can still fire them.

One thing to note, though, is that you appear to not have pack masters written in there. You've included them in the costs, but not in words.

Also, what kind of LR is that? Is it a crusaider so that your Blood Claws can move without being shot to pieces? Or is it a normal land raider, which really isn't that great?

Total of 1800 pts
If I chose to play this list it would be in a 1850 pts tournament so there is some points left. What do you think about it?
Maybe a lone wolf with a frost blade and melta bombs for 50pts could be useful.

1800 is such a weird pointage. I've seen 1750 and 1850 before, but not 1800.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You should try Murderous Hurricane instead of Fury of the Wolf Spirits. It works quite well and it auto-hits. I would also suggest dropping the terminator armour and giving him a chooser of the slain instead.
I will try Murderous Hurricane. The thoughts about the armor seems correct also


I'm guessing these guys go in the crusader? They're going to roll over the moment an MC makes contact with them as they have no power fist. With the extra 10pts you would have by dropping the Libby's terminator armour you could upgrade the WG to have a PF.
I explained in my post that these were going with the rune priest across the board. But I will probably add a P-fist in the squad.



QUOTE=Phalanx;1597965]
What is the 5-man flamer pack for? Are you just going to hold them in reserve and let them out to take your objective near the end of the game? It might be better to drop the WG in the 5 man Razorback unit, combine it with the other 5 man unit, and change the razorback for a rhino. That way you have a good size, mobile unit seeing as the drop pod units can't move that far without a transport.[/QUOTE]

Again, read my initial post... They will jump into the Land Raider and probably stay there.


I like how you only mix weapons with missile launchers. Thats a good practice because you can use MLs on pretty much anything so even if you lose your pack master you can still fire them.
That's the idea :)

One thing to note, though, is that you appear to not have pack masters written in there. You've included them in the costs, but not in words.
You always have to have at least 1 Leader and 1-5 Long fangs so I don't see the need to print him out.

Also, what kind of LR is that? Is it a crusaider so that your Blood Claws can move without being shot to pieces? Or is it a normal land raider, which really isn't that great?

The Land Raider is just what it says... A Land Raider with Lascannons.


Maybe a lone wolf with a frost blade and melta bombs for 50pts could be useful.

Maybe


1800 is such a weird pointage. I've seen 1750 and 1850 before, but not 1800.
I only had 1800 now because thats what I had in my head but I wanted to add to 1850.
 

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I will try Murderous Hurricane. The thoughts about the armor seems correct also




I explained in my post that these were going with the rune priest across the board. But I will probably add a P-fist in the squad.
I don't like the idea of footslogging them. While its a bit of a to each their own thing, I find that if you want cover you'll be moving too slow and you'll take needless casulties. Putting them in a Crusaider would be far more beneficial, though you wouldn't be able to have them with the RP then because being in a tank with no firepoints sorta makes his powers less useful.

Again, read my initial post... They will jump into the Land Raider and probably stay there.
I missed that. Personally I think its a waste of 75pts and a land raider. Land raiders are best used to get those large assault units into the enemy's face, not babysit objectives.

That's the idea :)



You always have to have at least 1 Leader and 1-5 Long fangs so I don't see the need to print him out.
You should anyways. Otherwise people will think you screwed up. Even if you just write it like this instead:

modified said:
6 Long Fangs Pack @ 195 pts
Missile Launcher x3; Plasma Cannon x2
Wolf Guard @ 18 pts
Drop Pod
it shows that you know what you're doing.


The Land Raider is just what it says... A Land Raider with Lascannons.
Ah. I just find that I prefer the redeemer. Its great for getting my Wolf Guard into combat, but as you've said you would prefer to have it stay back and shoot. In that case I wonder why you just don't go for a razorback with tl'd lascannons instead. You could even get a pair of them (one for the wolf guard, one for the GH) and have pretty much the same long range firepower for less points and still have 170pts to go and blow on something else. Sure the extra armour is nice, but I just don't see that tactic as being very good.

Its just an idea. I don't really think in values as low as 50pts.

I only had 1800 now because thats what I had in my head but I wanted to add to 1850.
Ah. So what you wanted added up to 1800pts and thats why you're thinking of other options?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
what compostioni, explain abit more why you can't take it in sweden.
Well its a scale of how though your list seems to be. SW start at 100 and get -2 for have a Grey Hunter Pack for starters and long fangs get -1 for each heavy weapon and -2 for first squad etc...

On the tournament if you have low comp and you opponent have high he will steal some points from you after the match is over.

And JOTWW is -25 btw, thats why I won't take it.

Hope I managed to explain how it works so you understand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
One reason for the fotslogging was to get the heat of the long fangs and the podding Grey Hunters. About the long fangs, realised I had entered a 5 instead of a 6, I see the problem now :).


But here is another version


Wolf Priest @125
Runic Armor, Melta Bomb

Wolf Guard Battle Leader @85
PW

13 Blood Claws Pack @ 210 pts
Flamer, PW
+Wolf Guard with P-fist @38pts

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
Flamer, Plasma
Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 190 pts
2x Melta
Drop Pod
5

5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts
Flamer
Razorback (TL-LC)
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 170 pts
Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x3
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 125 pts
Heavy Bolter x3; Missile Launcher x2
+Wolf Guard with Terminator armor and Cyclone ML @ 63 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 195 pts
Missile Launcher x3; Plasma Cannon x2
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts
Drop Pod

Land Raider Crusader @ 260 pts
Multi-Melta

(Bought as a Dedicated for my Wolf Guards)

Total 1850
 

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One reason for the fotslogging was to get the heat of the long fangs and the podding Grey Hunters. About the long fangs, realised I had entered a 5 instead of a 6, I see the problem now :).


But here is another version


Wolf Priest @125
Runic Armor, Melta Bomb

Wolf Guard Battle Leader @105
PW
A WGBL with a PW comes to 85pts, not 105pts. What else does he have?

13 Blood Claws Pack @ 210 pts
Flamer, PW
+Wolf Guard with P-fist @38pts

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts
Flamer, Plasma
Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 190 pts
2x Melta
Drop Pod
5

5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts
Flamer
Razorback (TL-LC)
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 170 pts
Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x3
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 125 pts
Heavy Bolter x3; Missile Launcher x2
+Wolf Guard with Terminator armor and Cyclone ML @ 63 pts

6 Long Fangs Pack @ 195 pts
Missile Launcher x3; Plasma Cannon x2
+Wolf Guard @ 18 pts
Drop Pod

Land Raider Crusader @ 260 pts
Multi-Melta

(Bought as a Dedicated for my Wolf Guards)

Total 1850
Looks good to me. I do prefer rhinos over drop pods, but to each their own, right?

I'm glad you decided to follow my advice on the LRC. Toss in the BCs with the Wolf Priest and its a force to be reckoned with. :D
 

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I wouldn't bother with Runic Armour. I find that the biggest threats to HQ choices are powerfists and thunderhammers and runic armour won't help against those.
 

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your joking right? *holds torrent of insults* that is....an unfair system that punishes players who want to make the most competitive and balanced list as possible.
thanks
antique_nova
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here is a list for the space wolves:
svenska40k.se • Visa tråd - Space Wolves (slutgiltig version uppe)

Diffrent tournaments deal with this in diffrent ways. Not all tornaments use the list either, som have subjective points.

Usually you divide you points by 5 and if you have for exampl 10 and you opponent has 8 he would take have of the diffrence in comp (in this case 1) in game points after the match is over.

I have to admit I was sceptic about a system like this, but it works really well and keeps away those really cheesy list, or at least give the softer lists some handicap against them.
 

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Here is a list for the space wolves:
svenska40k.se • Visa tråd - Space Wolves (slutgiltig version uppe)

Diffrent tournaments deal with this in diffrent ways. Not all tornaments use the list either, som have subjective points.

Usually you divide you points by 5 and if you have for exampl 10 and you opponent has 8 he would take have of the diffrence in comp (in this case 1) in game points after the match is over.

I have to admit I was sceptic about a system like this, but it works really well and keeps away those really cheesy list, or at least give the softer lists some handicap against them.
So we're at -4 just for playing? WTF? Some of those are rather retarded... So I take Bjorn, who isn't a very good choice, and I get a higher -ve than if I took a wolf lord with a storm shield and a frost blade, which is far superior? I could just take Iron Priests on Thunderwolves with max cyberwolves x3. From what I hear its a pretty powerful unit, and its only worth -1 comp. I could make a very good army with pretty high comp in that. The LF comp is what i find the stupidest just because its instantly -3 for a single ML, or -7 if you want a full unit of them. Please excuse me for a moment while I try to break the comp system.

Comp Breaker!

HQ: 335pts
WL: Belt of Russ, 2x Wolf Claws, Runic Armour, meltabombs: 190pts, -2 comp

WGBL: Frost Blade, Saga of the Beastslayer, WTN, storm shield: 145pts, -4 comp

Elites: 495
3x Iron Priest w/ Thunderwolf, WTN, 4 Cyberwolves: 165ptsx5, -3 comp

Troops: 585pts
1x 10 GH w/ 2 Melta, MotW, Rhino: 205pts, -5comp

2x 9 GH w/ 1 Melta, MotW, Rhino: 190ptsx2, -10 comp


Fast Attack: 432
3x8 Skyclaws: 144ptsx3, -0comp

Total: 1847pts
Comp: 75
KP: 14
Scoring: 3 units
Models: 72

You can mess around with the GH units to reduce the comp-> they're only -6 comp without rhinos, which would give you 84 comp and an extra 105pts to play around with. Use 75pts of it to give all the skyclaws meltaguns and MotW for 75pts and then use the last 30pts for 2 more GH to make the units 3x10 GH with 2 meltaguns each. With those you would have:

Total: 1847pts
Comp: 84
KP: 11
Scoring: 3 units
Models: 71

And I think it would be a decent army even outside of a comp tourney (though it would really need a RP then). Considering what I see from the comp there, most other competitive armies would be hit a lot harder. This could take on a couple of MCs (The beastslayer WGBL and all the meltaguns help), some tanks (lots of meltaguns and the IP and his dogs along with the fury of the skyclaws), and will likely rend apart most hordes due to the large number of models (84 models, with 59 of those having a 3+ or 2+ save, and the last 12 having T5 and 4+ saves), and will have 16.8 comp after dividing by 5, so versus lets say a comp 50 army you would be getting 3.4 extra battle points per game and your list would probably be on par with theirs.

I don't think that comp system is done very well. :D

Edit: Looking at your army on the first post you're already at around 33 comp. IIRC those long fangs alone are -28 comp from that chart. While they may not be as good at fragging thing, if you want to beat the comp system I would definately recommend ThunderWolf Iron Priests with cyber wolves and skyclaws with MotW and meltaguns. Fast, manuevrable without those heavily comped tanks, and capable of dishing out a lot of pain. The IP/CW unit can dish out 16 S4 WS4 attacks at I4 and the IP can dish out 4 S10 attacks and 1 s8 attack on the charge that always hits on a 3+ IIRC (base 2 attacks, right? I don't remember...). The sky claw unit can dish out 27 normal attacks and 1d6+3 rending attacks on the charge. If you have a wolf priest or something else in there with them then they can really dish out the hurt, once again for little comp (the skyclaws are -0 comp and 179pts while the IP/CW unit is only -1 comp and 165pts and a Wolf Priest with a jump pack and meltabombs is -5 comp and 130pts).

Edit 2: Man, vanilla SM get things easy on their comp list! They start at 5 higher comp, get hit less fr things such as power fists and storm shields, get hit less for special characters, less comp hit for tanks, they get a bonus for using crusaiders, and they can easily up their comp to unreasonable levels using guys like honour guard who are actually quite good but tend to be looked over because TH/SS terminators are so much better. Take some chapter masters, a couple of units of honour guard, perhaps some vanguard with jump packs, and you're up a bunch of comp. You couple probably make a fairly decent elite-ish close combat army with a very high comp and still be decently competitive against people who decide to screw most of the comp.
 

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reducing cheesy lists? cheesy lists are a load of rubbish in my opinion. if someone wants to spam RP or russes, i don't call them cheese. cheese isn't competitive, it's fluffy, but not competitive. I feel sorry for you guys that this system doesn't bring out the best of the swedish 40k competitiveness.
thanks
antique_nova
 
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