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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Are C'tan that needed ?.

My personal opinion is they are needed,simply because combat wreaks havoc opon Necrons and since you can no longer expect to see a other round of combat and teleport via monolith,a Deceiver makes short work of everything in 1500 pt games,people even play defensive asoon as they see my Deceiver and 2 Monolith as they know they will have to get passed my 3 best unit in order to phase me out.

I often use the Nightbringer if i am using Destroyers in my list instead of warrior spam and if i have the spare points.

Plus i've never really rated a Necron Lord,not that i don't like it or anything i simply feel it is overcosted and unless your playing a guard army that relies on pie plate weapons your simply wasteing points,plus there is the fact if your so worried about pie plated to death you can always go to ground in terrain or put your necron warriors in reserve.

Whats your opinion on them?.
 

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I agree with Kelter. The deceiver rules because of his ability to NEVER be locked into CC. I've seen the nightringer locked up for 2-3 turns and now you can't support your line.

On the other hand my Deceiver assaults one side of my line, escapes combat (in this case 10") during the opponents turn, and then moves 6" to move, and 6" to assault thus preventing my backside from being nailed. If I had the nightbringer I would have been assaulted on my rear and lost to phase out.

If we lose the Ctan, I just hope we gain an equally powerful lord alternative is all.
 

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Granted my win-loss ratio isn't that fantastic, I've only used a C'tan once, and have honestly won games without them. For tying up combat units, I stand by tomb-spyders. These things aren't anywhere near as tough or hard hitting as a C'tan, but they are immensely cheaper. Also since I can field so many more of them for the price of a C'tan they can be in more places at once, granting a wider range of protection to my shooting forces.

Besides all this, the things are total can-openers. S6 power weapons make a mockery of power-armored opponents and vehicles. They cannot rip through special characters, and super-elite assaulters like genestealers or TH/SS termies, but they still hold their own.

As for the lords. Standard Necron Lords are not even remotely good close combat fighters, they threaten enemy line-infantry but that's about it (one lord against a tac squad is still usually in the lord's favor, but that ain't saying much.)

For a non-C'tan CC HQ, I turn to the Wraithlord. T6 3+/4++ saves and S5 power-weapon (or warcythe if that's your thing) is a pretty intense combination. I had mine go 5 rounds of combat 1-1 with a broodlord. They again, aren't a C'tan but their mobility and absurd toughness generally make up for the difference, as does the extra 100+ points you save.
 

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Don't you find the Dlord to be lacking on higher toughness stuff? I mean wounding on T6 on 5's, not being able to wound an Eldar Wraithlord T8 at all, etc. Just seems sad that he's only S5 where the Ctan is S9 attacks or S10 Nightbringer. I wish the warscythe acted like a powerfist or something for at least wounding models (maybe not for penning vehicles, but still). Can carve a land raider like butter, but can't carve into a wraithlord?
 

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True enough, I don't see many Wraithlords around though, so they don't tend to be an issue.
Well not just wraithlords, Toughness 6 wounding on 5's is brutal. :( or even toughness equal at 5 is just low results. With his already low weapon skill. Assaulting a Demon prince, or a Nid MC, etc tends to get my Dlord ripped to shreds. If he does land the wound yes it's awsome...but I find the Dlord just doesn't land much compared to the Ctan wounding on 2's and having WS 5 & such. Just sad :(
 

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No Life King
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I never said they could match up to C'tan standards... That's just the best build for a Close Combat Lord. :soldier:

Back more on track. The only units you HAVE to field as a Necron Player is Warriors. Everything else is purely optional. Some units may definitely feel like "must haves" (Destroyers, Monoliths, Orblords) but honestly a list is entirely what you make it in the end. C'tan, when all is said and done, are just another of these options. They are, however a VERY powerful one of them, especially in the right hands. (see also: not mine)

Disclaimer: Using anything you want and just mashing it together may make it exponentially harder to win.
 

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It depends on the game and the opponent really.

Heavy pie plating armies (and I mean LOTS of pie plates), it'd be hard to survive without an ordlord. But anything else, its somewhat easy to use a C'tan (in this case, I'm referring to the Deceiver).

For most opponents (because of the sheer power on display when they read its statline), C'tans are designated firemagnets, which can easily work in your favour. Just think of all those lascannon and similar shots that are drawn away from the destroyers and other units in your force. But putting that aside, the Deceiver can pull it off easy once he gets within assaulting range of an enemy unit.

From there on, its frog leaping onwards to the more critical units and just about annihilating them. I tend to think of the Deceiver as an uber dedicated assassin, getting to the target(s) (relatively unscathed I hope) and just dismantling the core units that holds the opposing army together. In fact, if you can keep your warriors safe from pie plates (in cover or reserves), the Deceiver could almost do it single handedly (not that I would recommend that) or get the job done with the aid of some of the more specialised units.

The nightbringer is awesome too but I've seen disappointing games played where he's stuck in CC with the same one or two marine squads for the entire game. So personally, I'd go for the Deceiver over the Nightbringer.

For Kelter Skelter:
I'm somewhat grateful that we don't have psyker abilities and that the C'tan abilities do not require psychic tests because I've been hearing a lot of people complaining about their powers being shut down by psychic hoods and shadow in the warp.

(Oops, my bad... Sorry for getting the name wrong)

Woot!!! 100th Post!!!
 

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It's Kelter.

And my point is more that Necrons are boring enough as it is, we really really really need SOMETHING with some "tricks" so they're fun.

Space marines and others have all sorts of psykers and tech marines, weirdboys, painboys, rune priests, grand masters with force weapons and c'tan blades, poisoned blades and terrorfexs.

Those are the things that make the game "fun" and things like VoD and most importantly the deceiver are the things we have that let us have some fun.

To get rid of them would be a crucial blow against the number of tricks we have to enjoy ourselves.
 

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For me the VoD, turbo boosting swarm lord (with scarabs for that lovely cover save), wraiths assulting 44 inches with a monolith, and just the fact that our standard squads can harm AV14 vehicles as well as the c'tan tricks if you use one is plenty of fun IMO.

I used to use the nightbringer and had pretty good sucess with it, but a) lost the model and b) found more fun in cheaper stuff.

I have an idea for a necron army based around the deceiver, as well as a great centre piece (the deciever himself) so will be using him in games soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm starting to find Deceiver + Wraithlord and 3 wraiths work well.

problem with it is i have to load up on warriors to keep my PO numbers alright and make sure i have a monolith to block LOS.
 

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I'm starting to find Deceiver + Wraithlord and 3 wraiths work well.

problem with it is i have to load up on warriors to keep my PO numbers alright and make sure i have a monolith to block LOS.
Try it with just the wraiths and not the Dlord...it's worked amazing an you save the 210pt sink of the Dlord. Allowing for Destroyers, etc. I placed 3rd place with a list like that. 10 Destroyers, 3 wraiths, 30 warriors, Deceiver, Monolith (was an 1850 list). Not sure if I'm missing anything, but the Wraiths combined with the ctan for extra attacks has been amazing. Plus their invul save!
 

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No C'tans are not needed because tomb spyders are the best CC unit in the game for their points hands down.

They have S6 - Just enough to wound T4 on 2s and instant death T3.
They have T6 - Just enough to avoid S = 2T and make S4 wound them on 6s
They have 3 power weapon attacks - Enough attacks to take out numbers and power weapons for elite guys.

And their "disadvantages" arn't to bad - WS2 still hits WS4 on 4s. And you can take 5-6 for the price of 1 C'tan. Thats 15-18 S6 power weapon attacks, 10-12 T6 3up save wounds and the ability to create 15-18 extra wounds per turn that as long as theres only 1 still count as T6.

The only reason ever to take a C'tan is HIGH point games when you need your heavy slots for 2-3 liths.
 

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I have to LOL at this. I'm not a fan of Tomb Spyders anymore. Ctan ignore invul saves too. That means I can take down a named character, Nidzilla, etc with far more ease than say 6 Tomb spyders with WS 2. Almost all of those attacks are gonna WHIFF. Plus anything T8 like wraithlords, etc are still gonna wound on 6's. Plus EACH spyder is a kill point, easy points in a game like that.

Ctan ftw!
 

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I personally haven't used a C'Tan yet, but I only have something like 1250 pts right now. I can definitely see them being useful for me at the 1750 and above since there are a lot of scary warrior killing things running around at that point level. I would feel a lot better having the deviever or nightbringer running around keeping those pesky assault trrops away from my warriors though, but I don't think you NEED one. Again, never used one but I intend to proxy one sometime soon so I don't but one that i don't like so much.
 

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The way I see it, not so much the Nightbringer but with the Deceiver, bringing one of those to a low points game (ideally 1250ish), you are forcing your opponents to buy some of the more expensive units just to be able to have something that can hurt the C'tan or at least have a chance.

Its likely to follow the suit (but not always):
C'tan on field=more points spent on fewer enemy models=less targets that can be shot at by enemy units=fewer targets for the Deceiver= (and if it works in your favour) WINz!

So, once again, the C'tan have their pros and cons (although their pros tend to stand out more) :dance:
 

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in my expieriences the deciever rocks. Hes expensive yes but can kill anything. Also the look on your oppenents face when you change your deployment or with the deciever withdrawing from combat only to recharge his next turn. Ive had players(Mainly newbs) change their strategy just to avoid my ctan, its a nice physcological advantage to have for sure.
 
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