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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering if you could have a successful Tau army that doesn't use any XV8's expect for the Commander and his bodyguard?
 

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I am a free man!
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IMHO. No. Not at all. To do so is to sacrifice about the only source we have of high-strength/low-AP weaponry.

Don't do it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you mean plasma rifles? or does that include missile pods and fusion blasters as well?
 

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Without Crisis suits you are basically limiting your firepower to STR4/5 and STR10. In a take-all-comers army you need a variety of weaponry. Crisis suits are your only source of long ranged, STR6/7 multi-shot weapons which makes them versatile enough to kill vehicles, MCs and they are moderately effective against infantry. Of course, this differs depending on the load-out, but suits with missile pods and whatever else you prefer tend to be the most effective. If you want to be competitive, you need crisis suits.
 

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Stirling
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XV8's are also great for a good twin linked flamer/mpod platforms. I love em, use em every chance I get.
 

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Sir Proofreader
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Having no evidence or experience to back this up, I'm kind of wondering if it would be possible.

(I'm also rather tired today so take that in to account if I say anything stupid...)

Yes it would be a rather limited list and probably wouldn't fare well against certain builds, but it could be a bit of fun.

If you took a hefty amount of pathfinders, a whole bunch of seeker missiles (on Devil-fishes and perhaps Piranhas?), and plenty of hammerheads, you might be able to compensate for the lack of XV8s. Maybe not entirely, but you might get close. I guess the only way to see if it works is to try it!
 

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It still wouldn't work. Seeker missiles are single use weapons and you can only get 2 per vehicle. To make the most use out of them you would need 2 fire warrior squads with markerlights and devilfish, plus 2-3 pathfinder squads with markerlights and at least 1 sky ray. That's a minimum of 18 + (2* number of piranhas).
But in order to make it work you still have to hit at BS3 then hit at BS5, that's a 42% hit rate on a single shot weapon that you are relying on for most of your firepower.

There is a reason everyone uses Crisis suits, and that's because they are the only unit that can perform in their high strength/low AP role, seeker missiles can aid them but cannot replace them as they do not have the versatility, reliability or sheer volume of fire.
 

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absolutely. in fact many succeseful lists don't include them (including a couple of mine). they are a large help in most others though. i usually run a torch squad with an MP a flamer and 1 twin-linked flamer. however i beleive M.O.M sums it up best, without them you give up a large amount of versitile fire power.
 

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What do all you use them for?
Typically I use them for anit transport and anti TEQ in the form of Fireknives (plasma rifle, missile pod, multi tracker) and anti transport in the form of Deathrains (twin-linked missile pods, targeting array). I will sometimes run a Shas 'el Helios (fusion blaster, plasma rifle, targeting array) to help deal with the big tanks like landraiders and TEQ's.

Anti-infantry can be left to my hammerheads, and other small guns that don't have the high ap that my crisis suits provide.
 

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Good crisis suit builds are ones that can both tackle armour and infantry, whatever you need out of them from turn to turn. This is a primary reason why I favor fireknives: excellent rate of fire and enough stopping power to damage anything that walks and any vehicle not AV 14.

The primary benefit of the deathrain, from my point of view, isn't the twin-linking but the points cost savings. It's a wonderfully cheap suit that can still do good stuff for you. The drawback is that it really isn't very good at anti-infantry. Without more shots and an AP3 or better weapon, it's almost entirely a light armour hunter. Nothing particularly wrong with that, but that limitation is what prevents me from using more of these.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Wait, so rolling with the seeker missile idea would you have for heavy support a railhead and two ionheads? and then for elites i suppose it would all be SMTs. Troops i guess would be as many devilfishes as can, the HQ would have marker drones an the only thing I'm stuck with is Fast attack. All Pathfinders or some piranahas or what? What do you guys think?
 

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The deep down truth
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Wait, so rolling with the seeker missile idea would you have for heavy support a railhead and two ionheads? and then for elites i suppose it would all be SMTs. Troops i guess would be as many devilfishes as can, the HQ would have marker drones an the only thing I'm stuck with is Fast attack. All Pathfinders or some piranahas or what? What do you guys think?
I am going to be totally blunt with you, Tau do not work without XV8's period. If you build a list without at least 4 XV8's you will have spent a lot of money on an exercise in frustration. The XV8 is our means of applying ranged mid strength firepower, be it Fireknife units, Deathrains, Torch units with Missile pods or close range punch via the Helios (plasma & Fusion). I am all for thinking outside the box and using lists that are not the usual expected builds but I am also for building lists that work and I think nothing is served by advising on builds that will leave you frustrated and regreting the money you spent building it.
 

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Tau do not work without XV8's period.QUOTE]

I dont entirely agree. granted your HQ should always have a suit of some sort (being ethereals have no save). other than that Tau can work fine without them, but they are a huge help in alot of builds. not to say there pointless, just not required for a succesful list.
 

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The deep down truth
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Tau do not work without XV8's period.QUOTE]

I dont entirely agree. granted your HQ should always have a suit of some sort (being ethereals have no save). other than that Tau can work fine without them, but they are a huge help in alot of builds. not to say there pointless, just not required for a succesful list.
Sorry but the Tau cannot work fine without XV8's. if you actually believe that put up a list without anything other than the compulsory XV8 HQ that can work against all comers, including AV14, Nid MC heavy list, Marine list with Landraiders and Termies, IG with multiple vehicles and just for laughs one that can stand for more than two turns against a Space wolf cav list. I have a list in the army list forum that can do all that and number6 has one as well (and Haddatt etc) thing that they all have is numerous XV8's.
Please show me how you can build a list with only one XV8 that can handle all comers because I have been building Tau lists for many years and I have not found a way to do it yet.

not to say there pointless, just not required for a succesful list.
That is a pretty powerful statement that you need to back up.
 

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@blasterdude,

you mean besides the fact that XV8 commanders are a 1+ requirement.

XV8's are absolutely neccesary for an effective tau army. You know how I can prove this, Number6 and Rikimaru both agree that it's true, ipso facto it is true. :)

If you don't have XV8's, the question you have to ask yourself is, "besides railguns, how am I going to get high str weapons on the field?"
Stealths can take fusion, but in limited numbers and not really very effectively.
Pirahna's can take fusion, but if you take pirahna you are doing so more for tactical flexibility and manuevarability, the fusion is a bonus. Again limited numbers and point cost make this restrictive as well.
Krootox have the kroot gun, but this removes the ability to infiltrate, something that a lot of players don't like. I like Krootox, but they aren't a good solution to the >than strength 5 issue.
That's it. Stealths, pirahna, Krootox, XV8's.

Give me some XV8's any day.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok, ok. I liked the idea of a non XV8 list just after my post I read all of those stickied tacticas, guides here and all of the articles on advanced tau tactica so I've been dissuaded from the idea of a non XV8 list. But the only probelm for me is I really like stealths so what should I do? How should I juggle the stealths and crisis suits in my army?
 

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If you want stealthsuits in your army then put them in, i do. The Tau have 5 FOC slots that can include XV8s, using 1 for a stealth team still leaves plenty. In fact my current lists includes 2 Elite XV8 teams, a stealth team and either 2 Shas'el or a Shas'el and bodyguard running a total of 6 or 7 battlesuits.

Every stealth team you take reduces the number of XV8s in your list, but an army can take a unit of stealths and still have plenty of XV8s, you just need to be aware that they fill different niches.
The XV8 is a mid-range firepower unit, focusing on high strength/low AP weapons, which are able to deal with heavy infantry and transports, while stealths are primarily an anti-infantry unit with their burst cannons. They can take fusion blasters but they aren't as effective, with jetpack units getting Relentless they can now serve as viable markerlight teams, but this is expensive and possesses few markerlights.
 

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If you are thinking about going with the stealth suit squad it my be worth considering adding in a team leader with a bonding knife, hard-wired drone controller, and 2 gun drones. The range is the same on the pulse carbine as the burst cannons and those extra pinning shots can come in handy, not to mention you can allocate some of those nasty shots onto the gun drones :) The only downside is the unit starts to get a little big and harder to conceal but I still think the pro's outweigh the con's.
 
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