Librarium Online Forums banner
41 - 60 of 359 Posts
Discussion starter · #41 ·
Blade of Setep is nice, but it pretty much has to go on a king, your prince would be defenseless if he held one. On a king you could take it and a gold ankrha, with LA and a shield. Gives him a 4+ armour and 4+ ward. This is actually a good combo for him on a chariot. But if on foot, that is 95 points of magic items, id still go with the destroyer of eternities and the collar, DoE is easily a top 5 best weapons in the game. I play 4 armies and it is my favourite weapon.
I will sadly have to disagree with this statement :p The Tomb Prince's ultimate defense is his Wounds. He have T5 and W3, which is unnatural for a Hero with a cost of 100 points ;) You can really give this weapon to a Prince, without feeling sorry for the save.

The GA is not a good choice (according to me). It's a classic Ward Save, which means that we could give our dear King an extraordinary Item instead, like the AotA or something :)

DoE and CoS is my fav too! :dance: Put him with a Unit of TGs who includes Icon of Rakaph, and he will see battles ;)


//Nag, the Hag
 
Currently I'm using a Khalida army so she's my Tomb Queen. However I do plan to expand my TK so I can play with multiple types of TK armies. That being said, if I take a unit of TG with a TK w/ DoE and CoS, would it be worth it to stick a LP in the unit with the Blue Khepra? (giving the unit MR 2)?
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
Currently I'm using a Khalida army so she's my Tomb Queen. However I do plan to expand my TK so I can play with multiple types of TK armies. That being said, if I take a unit of TG with a TK w/ DoE and CoS, would it be worth it to stick a LP in the unit with the Blue Khepra? (giving the unit MR 2)?
Could be good, depending on which opponent you're playing against :) Short answer, but directing :p


//Nagash
 
I was wondering what your thoughts on the Blade of Setep is.
I'm pretty much inclined to agree with Nagashs' sentiments on the BoS, we actually spoke about it a while ago now (though if memory serves that may of been via PM so you might not have seen it). The Blade of Setep is a really cool weapon, probably one that deserves to see more play than it actually does. The reason it usually doesn't is no so much because of any shortcomings on the part of the BoS, but rather that it faces such tough competition for selection against the likes of DoE and FoS.

Strangely enough, that is also the reason why some of the other items mentioned (Blue Khepra, Golden Ankhara etc) also see little play. Although those last two are perhaps a little over costed, the main problem with most of these items is that they are either trumped by better items that demand priority, or they are just too situational for inclusion in an 'all comers' list.

Everything in WHFB comes at a cost. Quite aside from the obvious points expenditure there is always the very real cost of not being able to take something else in its place or with the points available. This is sometimes difficult to agree upon because each of us has to base the decision on our own uniqe circumstances and -more often than not- by the specific opponents we face.

If, for example, you always seem to find yourself playing against Ogres then Enkils Kanopi is definately an auto include, but for most of us it is probably too situational and the points are usually better spent elsewhere. These are often things you will need to decide based on your own experiences.

On a last note, although the Blue Khepra is normally not good (because aside from the cost(s) your opponent will just fling his magic at something else), it could be spectacular in very low points games where you only have maybe a single block and perhaps a scorpion or two, because your opponent will have no other choice but to try and wade through your MR. ;) It would also work well on a deathstar if you were really inclined to go that route.
 
Two questions

1) How effective is a Tomb King in a chariot with the DoE/CoS combo?

2) Suppose this Tomb King was being supported by a unit of three chariots with a magical banner. What would be the best choice for such a banner? The three I am considering are the Icon of the Sacred Eye (which wouldn't be much benefit to the DoE), the Mirage Standard (to help protect the unit as a whole) and the Banner of the Undying Legion (to help ease the pain of wound transfers).
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
1) How effective is a Tomb King in a chariot with the DoE/CoS combo?
Not effective at all, since you cannot wield the Destroyer if your King is not on foot :)

2) Suppose this Tomb King was being supported by a unit of three chariots with a magical banner. What would be the best choice for such a banner? The three I am considering are the Icon of the Sacred Eye (which wouldn't be much benefit to the DoE), the Mirage Standard (to help protect the unit as a whole) and the Banner of the Undying Legion (to help ease the pain of wound transfers).
From now on, I suppose that we have switched the DoE for somethng else ;)

Icon of the Sacred Eye is not a favourite to me. The effect is good if you have such a weapon as FoS, BoS, SoA and CaFoR. If none of these weapons are fielded in the Unit, I would skip this Icon.

Mirage Standard is very good when you go up against a Shooty Army. I prefer this one against a player that I know plays shooty Armies with Dwarfs, Elves (of all kinds), Empire or Skaven. Otherwise, I skip this Standard.

Banner of the Undying Legion is not what I usually give to my Chariot Units. It is a good way to keep th unit alive if they are supposed to see alot of combat. It is totally a waste of points if you don't field a Casket, since it will easily be dispelled (PL:3).

Since the question not turned out as expected, you might want to know something that I missed? :)


//Nagash
 
Icon of the Sacred Eye is not a favourite to me. The effect is good if you have such a weapon as FoS, BoS, SoA and CaFoR. If none of these weapons are fielded in the Unit, I would skip this Icon.
Although Nagash and I generally agree on most things, I have to say I couldn't disagree more on this one, so perhaps another perspective might be of value?

The Icon of the sacred eye is by far the single best standard we can put on a chariot unit in my experience, regardless of any other magic weapons wielded in the unit. The (vaguely cheesy) ability to trigger the banner repeatedly in a single turn makes all those otherwise mediocre attacks into a devastating thing of beauty. It's actually quite surprising how much more effective the icon makes a chariot unit.

I wont bother to bore everyone with the math-hammer, but it's important to remember how chariots work IMHO. Unlike almost everything else in the TK arsenal, chariots win by causing casualties and breaking an opponent on the charge. This is absoloutely critical to their success and all your efforts should be geared towards this end or -sooner or later- you will doom the unit to a lingering death in a protracted combat.

Having tried all the standards at some time or another I can honestly say I would never choose anything over the IotSE anymore. For me, it's just one of those things that is too good not to take if you're placing a standard on your chariots.

That's my humble opinion anyhoo.
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
That's my humble opinion anyhoo.
Oh, thank you Vallah for your input! :D

You're totally right when it comes to the charges... Experience is my only enemy when I think about fielding the IotSE, since always when I've used it, it have turned out to be much of a waste of points (as long as I haven't fielded one of those weapons in it). I understand your point, but what I've learned from my own mistakes tells me otherwise :p

Could be that I've been unlucky with the banner? :freaked-out:

Usually, I don't field my TK mounted on a Chariot. I prefer Units with 4 models, no upgrades for a cheap reliable flanking source :)


//Nagash
 
Nagash, my dad is going to start a fantasy army and can't decide between Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Could you please enlighten him on how to play Tomb Kings, and maybe some playstyles.

Also some painting advice for the skeletons etc would be greatly appreciated (what spray, paints etc to use).

Some help on what to buy and what lords to get, maybe even a help for his first 1000 point army list. Bear in mind this is his first ever Warhammer Fantasy or 40k army. He is 40 years young and would appreciate the help, despite not admitting it at first.


Thanks,

Cark.
 
Not effective at all, since you cannot wield the Destroyer if your King is not on foot :)



From now on, I suppose that we have switched the DoE for somethng else ;)

Icon of the Sacred Eye is not a favourite to me. The effect is good if you have such a weapon as FoS, BoS, SoA and CaFoR. If none of these weapons are fielded in the Unit, I would skip this Icon.

Mirage Standard is very good when you go up against a Shooty Army. I prefer this one against a player that I know plays shooty Armies with Dwarfs, Elves (of all kinds), Empire or Skaven. Otherwise, I skip this Standard.

Banner of the Undying Legion is not what I usually give to my Chariot Units. It is a good way to keep th unit alive if they are supposed to see alot of combat. It is totally a waste of points if you don't field a Casket, since it will easily be dispelled (PL:3).

Since the question not turned out as expected, you might want to know something that I missed? :)


//Nagash

Hong Kong Phooey!

Hmmm. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.

Flail of Skulls and the Spear are both looking nice. No, they're looking better than nice, they're looking dangerous!

I take it then, Banner of the Undying Legion goes into the "absorb enemy dispel dice" catagory with the casket then, eh?
 
Not effective at all, since you cannot wield the Destroyer if your King is not on foot :)



From now on, I suppose that we have switched the DoE for somethng else ;)

Icon of the Sacred Eye is not a favourite to me. The effect is good if you have such a weapon as FoS, BoS, SoA and CaFoR. If none of these weapons are fielded in the Unit, I would skip this Icon.

Mirage Standard is very good when you go up against a Shooty Army. I prefer this one against a player that I know plays shooty Armies with Dwarfs, Elves (of all kinds), Empire or Skaven. Otherwise, I skip this Standard.

Banner of the Undying Legion is not what I usually give to my Chariot Units. It is a good way to keep th unit alive if they are supposed to see alot of combat. It is totally a waste of points if you don't field a Casket, since it will easily be dispelled (PL:3).

Since the question not turned out as expected, you might want to know something that I missed? :)


//Nagash

I actually agree with Nagash on the Icon of the Sacred Eye. The reason for this is because the prince in a chariot unit is an absolute magnet for shooting and magic.

I originally started fielding this unit with the icon and with a prince with the flail of skulls. Time after time my opponent would rain all the shooting, magic and everything else he had at this unit. They would also throw lots of dispel dice or even dispel scrolls at it's attempts to charge using magic.
Oftentimes this unit would be reduced to 1 or 2 chariots by the time it reached combat, sometimes it would be destroyed before it got there and also due to scrolling it's magical movement its also often on the recieving end of a charge.

Due to this heavy opposition I've started fielding this unit in my generic lists with the mirage standard and the blue khepara on the prince, who is then armed with a regular flail. The unit now often actually makes it to combat at full strength, although it's also often common for the charges to be dispelled or scrolled.

On tailored lists it depends on what I"m up against. magic heavy army get the blue khepara but icon of the sacred eye. Shooting armies usually get the mirage standard and the flail of skulls.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
Nagash, my dad is going to start a fantasy army and can't decide between Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Could you please enlighten him on how to play Tomb Kings, and maybe some playstyles.

Also some painting advice for the skeletons etc would be greatly appreciated (what spray, paints etc to use).

Some help on what to buy and what lords to get, maybe even a help for his first 1000 point army list. Bear in mind this is his first ever Warhammer Fantasy or 40k army. He is 40 years young and would appreciate the help, despite not admitting it at first.


Thanks,

Cark.
Pretty interesting to hear that he will start an Army :) How did you inspire him? (Would be really nice to inspire my father, hehe ;))

First off: To choose between TK and VC is not that hard, really. Answer these questions, mostly for fluff :)

Do you want...

  • Hordes of Undead soldiers, marching forwards as you "play your flute"? (VC)
  • Elite trained skeletons who, on behalf of their Pharao, can make supernatural tactical moves? (TK)
  • One, and only one, who is the ultimate ruler over his/her domain? (VC)
  • A cooperation between the wisest men and the royal blood to shape a balance between order and magic? (TK)
  • An evil army fighting for dominance? (VC)
  • A doomed army, once cursed by a foul Necromancer, fighting for their territories? (TK)

There are different kinds of ways to play Tomb Kings. I'm not sure about how I'm supposed to write everything since I would have to repeat what others said before me in ages :p I will introduce two playable "playstyles" for you.


Skulls and Souls, Bones and Bows

The title explains alot of the content. This is the way that I usually field my TK. Just sit and wait - counter movement with reforms.

Play with a SSC and Casket. Place them close to each other so that they benefit from each others defense, or far from each others so no one will be able to take on them both in a row.
Play with Skeletons. Give them Bows and field them in big Units so that they'll be able to outnumber most of its foes. Start off to fire at any Large Target you can find.
Play with flankers. It's pretty much these who will do the "dirty job". When your enemy approaches, send your Bowmen to meet them in the front. Flank with Units such as Ushabtis and Chariots (could also be a TK with DoE in a TG unit with IoR) - all in one row! :dance: Thanks to the shooting and magic, it will be a weakened enemy that approach...

Territory Hunter

This is a way to use the mobility granted in TK. I will not describe it in detail, but search the forum for more clues of what I'm talking about. Walk forwards with your seemingly slow Army - it will hit at the first turn.

Play with Casket and either a BG or a SSC (your choice). The Casket is needed to secure areas on the table. By doing this, you'll have an advantage of seeing your opponent restricted to some prechosen places.
Play with at least two Units of Chariots, 4 in each. Make multiple charges at once.
Be sure to use fast movement to reach your enemy right away. Wait for the damage-dealers, such as the Shabs.
Secure one place after another, focusing all your effort to a single spot of the battlefield. When your enemy falls here, take on to the next one! :sinister:


Painting Skeletons can be made in several ways. If your father have never painted before, I would recommend a Chaos Black Basecoat. Drybrush with either Bleached Bone or Skull White (or both if you like) and pick out details with washes (like Flesh Wash or something in like that).

For the first list I would suggest that you check out these threads :) They are really good to get started with, now when you have some key options already available ;)

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/tomb-kings/122315-beginners-guide-tomb-kings.html
http://www.librarium-online.com/for...common-points-made-when-commenting-lists.html

Hope It Helps!

I take it then, Banner of the Undying Legion goes into the "absorb enemy dispel dice" catagory with the casket then, eh?
Often, yeah :) Since it is as effective as an ordinary Incantation but with a constant PL of 1, your opponent often tries to dispel it. Just make sure that you keep the Unit pushed so that you'll be able to use the banner ;) Let the Hierophant be close to this Unit when the summoning is really needed!

Your opponent will mostly dispel such a spell, which means that you have taken care of yet another DD each turn for 25 few points :p


//Nagash
 
Thanks a ton for the help Nagash!

Well, it didnt take much for me to get my dad into playing Warhammer. See ever since my dad was a young teenager he was a major fan of D&D. We got talking the other day about Warhammer Fantasy RPG tabletop and how much he was enjoying it.

I dont think my dad hasen't played a type of tabletop RPG. As ive been playing for 4 years he decided it would be a great way to spend some father and son time, against my Empire.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
I dont think my dad hasen't played a type of tabletop RPG. As ive been playing for 4 years he decided it would be a great way to spend some father and son time, against my Empire.
Glad to see you apreciated the time I've spent on your question :) However, you will surely have some problems going up against TK from now on ;) hehe


//Nagash
 
Well problems I can overcome when I get my unit of greatswords and 2 squads of suicide Flagellants!

My dad will likely go for the mobile idea, he loves the thought of racing roudn with Chariots. Also, he is buying the battalion today, what other models should he pickup for an army (I.E what hero/lord)

We will most likely be playing games of 1000 points to start off, seeing as I suck myself atm.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
My dad will likely go for the mobile idea, he loves the thought of racing roudn with Chariots. Also, he is buying the battalion today, what other models should he pickup for an army (I.E what hero/lord)
I would suggest a Tomb King as Lord. Two Liche Priests and one Tomb Prince is usually a good Hero setup. I will not describe any character builds here, so check the forum for ideas ;) For the 1k army, play two Priests and one Prince.

The Rare and Special are very important to the Army. Everything here is as good as it can be, so stick with the things you think is cooler. Screaming Skull Catapult is to recommend as Rare in 1k games against Empire ;) hehe (Note to father: If you know that your son plays magical heavy, play with a Casket instead:dance:)

For special, play with anything but Ushabtis. Against most Empire players, they will get shot down... If you know that they will be able to survive long enough to see combat, field 4 of them in the same unit! Have two Scorps, and the last (one or two) choice(s) is totally up to what you like the look of :) In a 1k Army vs Empire, aim for two Scorps and one unit of your chioce.

Core: Field Bowmen ;) Even Empire will have a hard time against TK shooting and Magic :)


//Nagash
 
My army (Empire) consists of heavy Cavalry and a Wizard or 2, would Archers fare well against this?
Heavy cavalry can be a bit tricky for us. Arrows really don't do much. It'll take a lot of luck to even get 1 kill with them.

Screaming skull catapult works very well, as it does not allow armor saves and can panick the units. Probably our best weapon.

Tomb guard can do well if they get the charge. They have decent combat skills and have killing blow which also negates armor saves. A King with DoE would be great here, but is not an option in 1k.

Chariots are iffy. If they are lucky they can do enough damage with impact hits and attacks to kill off some knights and maybe win on the charge. The heavy cavalry's tough armor though often means that they'll just bounce off without doing much and then it's just a matter of time before the knights beat them down.

Tomb Scorpions and Carrion are both great for dealing with the wizards, not so much for the knights.


Typically when I'm up against empire one of the first things I will do is start shooting flaming skulls at the cavalry and hopefully scare them away.
 
To the guy whos father is debating getting into TKs. Just let him know that to start, TKs can seem a bit weak the lower the point value games you play. Generally as a rule, the higher the point value, the better the army gets. I've played 3000 against vamps and was able to out magic him, which is very tough for any army outside of high elves to accomplish. Just try not get him to base his opinion on TKs based on 1000 point games.

on a side note, there is a gaming club who runs tournaments around where I live based on that new system that has army Tiers, TKs and Ogers are considered the lowest tier armies, and in a 2000 point tourney, each get 500 extra points of models. As soon as I heard this I immediatly felt like shelving my Elves, Demons and Lizards for the next tourney haha. As a TK player I've never felt being crippled showing up to 2000 point tourneys, now they are giving me an extra 500 to play with....bring it on!
 
To the guy whos father is debating getting into TKs. Just let him know that to start, TKs can seem a bit weak the lower the point value games you play. Generally as a rule, the higher the point value, the better the army gets. I've played 3000 against vamps and was able to out magic him, which is very tough for any army outside of high elves to accomplish. Just try not get him to base his opinion on TKs based on 1000 point games.

on a side note, there is a gaming club who runs tournaments around where I live based on that new system that has army Tiers, TKs and Ogers are considered the lowest tier armies, and in a 2000 point tourney, each get 500 extra points of models. As soon as I heard this I immediatly felt like shelving my Elves, Demons and Lizards for the next tourney haha. As a TK player I've never felt being crippled showing up to 2000 point tourneys, now they are giving me an extra 500 to play with....bring it on!
First paragraph - Great advice.

Second paragraph - Try not to massacre them too badly... next tournament you might find your 500 point bonus missing...
 
41 - 60 of 359 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top