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I am starting a BT army and was trying to integrate an Assault Squad into my 1500 army.
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Since any BT squad can swap bolter for BP and CCW, are they more effective points-wise than a 10-man BT squad w/ 8x BP and CCW, 1 PW/PF and Melta/Flamer mounted in a Rhino?

Are they more survivable?

Blood God help me out!!!
 

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in my opinion a squad or HtH units for any army is a necessity, either to completely dominate an opponent in CC or to fight off an Assault

i have seen especially well built Assault Squads for BT completely annihalate armies single handedly, i personally don't know how much they cost, but i know they're definentally a threat to be reckoned with, and if the points are available, i'd do it
 

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honestly stick with bt squads
 

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Personally I've never had much luck with Assault Squads. I mainly play Dark Angels, but even when the dice and the tactics were working out I found that for my tastes they just lacked the power to make up for their points. At a minimum your looking at 25 points a piece times 5 and that's if you take the base amount. It's up to you but if you're playing Black Templars I would suggest you just stay with their regular squad groupings. You'll get more models, with less range yes, but just as effective in CC.
 

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as a templar player myself, i swear by assault squads- faster, more powerful and tougher

Basic squads are great too- imho the best loyalist troops in the game, but they are more useful dealing with the enemies basic squads, whereas the assault squad is probably better at dealing with enemy elites

think of it this way, the assault marines charge into some 5 chaos terminators, 3 with lightning claws. THis is exactly equal points (295- 10 assault marines, 2 powerfists, 5 storm sheilds)

Enemy terminators, roll to hit, 10 attacks (4s to hit) five hits, call it 1 from each. roll to wound, (4s to wound) One power weapon wound, 2 lightning claws. With storm shields, thats roughly 1 or 2 kills from the terminators.

You strike back, 3s to hit, so 4 powerfist attacks, at least 3 of which wound, one saves. You other attacks (19), will on average kill another one. You have just taken an enemy terminator squad under half strength with one charge...you will not get that from a basic squad

THe lack of speed, storm shields, and less powerweapon attacks means that the basic squad isnt as good for dealing with elites, though admittedly they are way more expensive.
 

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I would agree that Assualt squads are awesome, the key point is you must determine how to use them correctly. Marshal Areal has the right idea. Never use your Assault Marines to fight the enemies CC troops, unless under dire circumstances. (dramitic, climactic battles aside...lol) And just because they have jump packs and can move 18" doesn't mean you should move them thier full amount.

Key points to remeber when using Assault Marines

-Make use of cover. Assault Marines will generally be the favored targets of an enemy commander, he/she cant kill what they can't see... I can't count how many Assault Marines I have seen salughtered ungloriously in the middle of the battlefield... in the open... with no enemies around. Not the way such a noble warrior should die.

-Make sure you get to charge, I can't emphasize this enough... I have seen far too many games where a SM player has moved his Assault Marines their maximum distance and finished in charge range of enemy troops. Assault units always work best when they get to charge...duh!

-This is an effective tactic I use when I have to take the defensive... Make a screen of Tactical Marines and laydown rightous amounts of boltgun fire on approching enemies. Have your Assault teams positioned behind them. When the enemy draw near have your assault team charge them, whilst they are tied up have your Tactical Marines move backwards. That way even if the dice turn against you and you lose the combat the enemy troops are stuck in the middle of nowhere facing a horde of Boltgun rounds. This takes practice to use right but it can be lethal!

-Don't shoot at enemies that you are barely in charge range of, you face the horrible danger of killing all of the enemy troops that are in charge range leaving your expensive Assault Marines in the open... This may seem like an underhanded tactic, but any commander worth his stripes will pull the closest models as casualties... you tend to learn your lesson fast on this one... trust me.

-Learn the limits of your squad. They can't do everything. I've seen over zealous commanders win a Combat and then sweeping adavnce into a Land Raider, or worse a Dreadnaught when they aren't equipped with anything that can deal with those monsters. Heck even I have fallen victim to this, after mopping several Chaos units with a crazy, sick Chaplain (and some damn impressive dice rolling) I used my follow up move to engage a Dreadnaught, only to realize in horror I had nothing that could harm it. The poor fellow was pulverized...

-and a last note. Assault troops are almost always suicide troops. They have a job to do, and they know it and would gladly die doing that job if needed. They shouldn't be casually thrown aside every game but sometimes they need to sacrifice themselves to save thier brothers. I belive most Space Marines would do this without hesitation. So sometimes, not often but sometimes I send them on suicide missions. If it keeps that horrible Khorne Chaos Lord (you know which one. He's in every Khorne army...you know Demonic Stature, Berserker Glaive, feel no pain and Rage of Khorne... the one who seems to be leading every Khorne army out there...) away from your battle lines for a few extra turns, then they have succeded.
 

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lol, well static has probably covered everything one would need to know about effective assault marines

oh, and one final note- about that goddamned khorne lord- this is the trick, landspeeders, fly them behind your opponents stuff and then watch his blood rage become laughable as the blood crazed bezerkers run off to something they can hardly scratch. Also, if they have a multimelta, they may even prune a few wounds off that irritating Khorne lord
 

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Originally posted by SolidBrimstone
Personally I've never had much luck with Assault Squads. I mainly play Dark Angels, but even when the dice and the tactics were working out I found that for my tastes they just lacked the power to make up for their points. At a minimum your looking at 25 points a piece times 5 and that's if you take the base amount. It's up to you but if you're playing Black Templars I would suggest you just stay with their regular squad groupings. You'll get more models, with less range yes, but just as effective in CC.
Ahh, your first few sentences summed up my thoughts exactly. Ive run into the same problem.. only thing i use an assault squad for is removing the jump packs off them (so its a normal 15pt marine with BP/CCW) and having my Chaplain join it as his bodyguard... works well, alas a bit slow, but more of a defensive unit than offensive (defensive as in counter attacking)
 
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