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it is impossible to even get close by the fourth turn...one game i got inclose on the second turn
Okay, the first thing I want to ask is how many points do you play as your usual force (2,000)?

is not very wide about 40-50" and really long, at least 60"
It seems the board is just about right, but I think it might be actually a little SMALL for a 2,000 point force. Typically I find games under 1,000 good for a 48" by 48" board. 1,500 points plays well on a 48" X 72" (4' X 6'), but can also work well on a 48" X 96". If you are playing 2,000 points, a 48" X 96" (4' X 8') is perfect. You want some room to move around.

What scenarios are you playing? Some missions are a bit tough if your opponent has the entire long edge to deploy, mostly becuase he can be mobile enough to displace and advance easily (Patrol or Bunker Assault). If you are placing your units in quarters (Cleanse) try a tactic of crowding his units in a corner. Deploy first and near the center of the board. Have him cluster up his units and dump spore mines on his fire warriors.

If he sets up the board, do you have a choice which side to deploy on? It may be a case that he is not being to fair with providing adequate cover. I notice the really shooty armies love the big wide open boards with zero terrain. Some folks had a good discussion on how to place terrain ( http://www.librarium-online.com/forum/inde...topic=2662&st=0 ) and I found method 4 in the rulebook (pg 124) to be a good way to randomly place terrain also.
 

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Move towards the space marines keeping cover as much as possible here are some match ups

Red Terror
Raveners

Terminators
Try and get the terror to eat them

Geen Stealers

Tactical Squad



:blink:
 

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i dont know about raveners, i have written down the points and stuff for leaping warriors and basically with the warriors you can get the same 18"movement and same weapon skill (plus all modles with in 2" get full attacks) as a ravener but for 35 points or a few more if you bump them up to 5 strenght. the only thing is you loose one attack i dont know if a 45 point rending claw scything talons ravener with one more attack then my 35 point warrior is worth it. i mean 6 reveners 270points or 8 warriors for 280points and you gain the much need synaps for it.


thsi is just what i think though. although raveners look kick ass


XG
 

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X-Griffin, you're absolutely right... i always thought in my mind that raveners were top sh1t... but ur winged warrior brood sounds quite nasty... put a few more ideas in my head.. ta
 

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Raveners aren't that bad...their hidden strength is the small brood size.

Your opponent can choose either to overkill a single ravener or to face it in close combat next turn. He will waste a lot of firepower to it (because the whole squad has to shoot at that ravener), with that firepower he eventually could have killed two or even three warriors. Raveners are also faster than leaping warriors.

jwu
 

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Leaping warriors don't qualify as Fast Attack, and therefore aren't really in competition with Raveners.

Flying Warriors are faster, in general, then Raveners.
 

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Most of the time, yes. They still have severe problems with difficult terrain though, and you need at least three warriors, so they are very vulnerable to firepower, especially krak missiles. A devastor squad could wipe out an entire unit of warriors per turn, but it can kill only a single ravener (if you use a minimal squad).

Raveners are in fact a good deal for the points, even if you compare them with warriors.

jwu
 

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humm i guess i see your point take one raveners as a single modle unit and let your opponent waste a squads fire power on him, because the two wounds i guess a units character cant just pick him off either. i hadnt though of it that way.



XG
 

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My question is, does a single Ravener DRAW fire? And if he doesn't, is a lone model that effective in close combat? (Admittedly, its a Ravener in close combat, but a single model is still just a single model)
 

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They do, because they are basically as dangerous as a warrior. Take three of them as fast attack choices, and you got the same punch as three tooled up warriors. Even if you use only one and it reaches close combat, then make sure that it fights at the side of that enemy unit (assuming that it was forming a line). This way only very few models can attack the ravener, most will fight the gaunts which have base contact with the rest of that unit...and the ravener meanwhile fights at full effect. That's almost as efficient as a leaping warrior contributing attacks from the second line. Most of the time your opponent won't attack the ravener at all as long as there are still gaunts tying up his squad character.

jwu
 

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thanks to all who replied, i have a question if a winged tyrant moves into cover does it get removed as a casualty like a gargoyle, oh another question do u use gargoyle wings for the winged warriors and if so were do you get them from and how much.

i have gone back through my army and i am removing most of my shooting units and/or weapons and have a close combat force that is really fast either winged or leaping except the fex ( really is their a way to make it faster) and i need to decide if winged or leaping is better please help
 

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You find the rules of winged tyrants on page 38, they 're not as bad as you had assumed but still not good...difficult terrain is a severe problem.

My winged warriors don't use wings at all, they are levitating (not unrealistic since they are synapse creatures, psykers):


There is a way to accellerate carnifices, but it's kinda abusive. I'd only ever use it against well known power gamers and rule lawyers. Do you really want to know how it works? It's tempting sometimes, but you won't make many friends with it.

Both wings and leaping have advantages. Besides the obvious advantages, the hidden strength of "leaping" is that you don't need base contact to fight at full effect. This way hormagaunts can bring a huge number of attacks to bear, and warriors can avoid base contact with power fist sarges (keeping a line of gaunts between them and the squad who take the hits). They fight from the second line, safe from everything but thrown stones, and still keep their full punch.

jwu
 

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hmm i like that levitating warrior can i use that and if so is it official and does it have any negative effects like dificult terrain. another thing is will other players get the shits with me because of it?

yeah that wings/ terrain is stupid wouldn't the warriors and tyrant land to walk into difficult terrain?

hmm can u think of another way to make them look like they are levitating beside the way u have done it, u know to be different, hey do u have to pay for this ability?
 

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It's not the official way to display a winged warrior, but it clearly shows that the warrior uses an alternative way of movement which involves flying. I didn't take part in one yet, but i think even rogue trader tournaments would allow it - no-one complied about it yet, i rather get praised for an innovative conversion (originally it wasn't my idea though)

I can hardly think of another way to make them levitating, but i'm quite sure that there aren't many players who use this kind of conversion. I simply used a hairdryer to heat up the tail in order to bend it, and i filled the leg holes with green stuff. The torso is placed as far forward as possible, in order to give the warrior an "S" shape, similar to a zoanthrope.

There are no rules for levitation, so i use the rules of normal winged warriors - at the usual cost.

jwu
 

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now that i have really thought it over and eyed it up the best set-up for a ravener is a deathspitter and rending claws. i mean the extra attack each is nice from the scything talons but i think i would rather get 3 str5 shots off witht he little template .

XG
 

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as would I! Every time I played with a 'fex (which has only been 3-4 times) it has never gotten into the fight because (believe it or not) my gaunts and stealers have destroyed most of the enemy by then. I would really like to get it into cc, but it can't seem to move quick enough. >.<

as for raveners, what would the optimum brood size be? I'm thinking 3-ish, but maybe that's too many?
 
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