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UnderWater Ninja-Tiger ..
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
<removed army list> http://www.librarium-online.com/for...nner-sm-army-vs-orks-getting-slaughtered.html

The main problem is the Warboss with 9 Nob bodyguard all with choppas and sluggas + squiggs
There's 25 wounds in the 1 squad. First three wounds on that group always go to the squiggs. Then I have not yet been able to cause enough metal rain to get the casualties high enough to even take a moral test. and nothing I try to assault them with lives. On his charge its 42 attacks. On my charge with the HQ and command squad its only 23 attacks with 7 wounds while my armor is lightened to 4+ and 5 of those attacks ignore armor. against his 32/22 wounds armor (boss5+) 6+ of 9 ignore armor (which I can see how that helps until I get down to the warboss.

I've tried being overly shooty( in a different match), and borrowed a LST, but he threw down an ork dread, and the LST only got 1 round of firing on the slugga boys, killing 2.

I would like my army to lean on the shooty side. Just to mirror the books that I've read. When I get higher in collection I'll wind up leaning back to balanced.

Any ideas would be helpful. I have access to a bunch of my friends old models (my opponent) and these are just friendly games, but I'm new and I can't seem to figure out how I'm getting so overrun all the time.
 

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is coming out to play
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991 Posts
Arm list section is where this should be.
From here now. You have low numbers to be fighting orks at this low of a point battle.

You have 6 guys eating almost half the points of what could be in your army. In that case I see no reason for the command squad to be there. You could fit another squad in for that price.
 

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UnderWater Ninja-Tiger ..
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785 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, we're still using the codex prior to the new one just out. I think we're all planning on upgrading once all the changes are in. Trying to keep the rules as a 4th ed. block. So new codex's and 5th base we'll carry over, which is a little painful as I only just started playing.
 

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LO's Resident Time Lord
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3,270 Posts
Arm list section is where this should be.
From here now. You have low numbers to be fighting orks at this low of a point battle.

You have 6 guys eating almost half the points of what could be in your army. In that case I see no reason for the command squad to be there. You could fit another squad in for that price.
Agreed. Command squads are a waste in armies this small. Wait till 1,000 or so, then beef it up.

For now, if you ditch the command squad, you can throw something better at him. Some say you could use a CC scout squad as a "speed bump," holding the tide in place long enough for your gunline to mow them down, but I find that's a particularly cruel waste of manpower. An assault marine squad would be ideal, but I'm not sure you've got the points.

What you CAN do is get an entire tactical squad. Give the sergeant a power fist (and take it off your captain), and give the squad a plasma gun. That will improve your odds dramatically. Also, fill up the other squad to maximum, if you can. Bodies, bodies, bodies, preferably all carrying guns!

Also, unless he's playing Speed Freeks, it's going to take him time to get to you. The standard strategy for dealing with cc hordes is: set up a gun line, make sure you have room to back up, and do everything in your power, from simply backing up to using countercharge units, to keep him off you, so you can keep shooting him.

Use your scouts to take out key targets, such as nobs. Don't assume you can nail the HQ, but if an opporunity presents itself, don't pass it up. At worst, the scouts can cut his squads down to size. Shooting his boyz is not the best use of the snipers, but they'll work, especially if you use a frag missile out of the launcher first to soften them up.
 

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UnderWater Ninja-Tiger ..
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785 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also, unless he's playing Speed Freeks, it's going to take him time to get to you. The standard strategy for dealing with cc hordes is: set up a gun line, make sure you have room to back up, and do everything in your power, from simply backing up to using countercharge units, to keep him off you, so you can keep shooting him.
I understand the concept here, but I haven't found a way to fire, and fall back. If I move I gain no space as I wouldn't be able to fire. and we just shift 6" toward my deployment zone.
Heavy weapons (hvy. bolters) even rapid fire weapons (bolters & plasma) If I move I can't fire them full range. If they are in rapid fire distance I can get one round of rapid firing before they charge ( move + assault). I've tried the speed bump, throw an expendable* squad in the way, but "consolidation" brings his guys 6 more inches closer anyway. Additionally, I can't fire into them if combat still exists, nor shoot through/past them. Unless there's some other trick to fire and maintain. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some basic rule or strategy, that I would love to get clarification on.
 

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A bit of alright.
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675 Posts
If you want to kill nobs then just take a vindicator. A demolisher cannon kills them on s 2+ (with a big template) and there's not a lot they can do to stop you.
 

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LO's Resident Time Lord
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3,270 Posts
I understand the concept here, but I haven't found a way to fire, and fall back. If I move I gain no space as I wouldn't be able to fire. and we just shift 6" toward my deployment zone.
Heavy weapons (hvy. bolters) even rapid fire weapons (bolters & plasma) If I move I can't fire them full range. If they are in rapid fire distance I can get one round of rapid firing before they charge ( move + assault). I've tried the speed bump, throw an expendable* squad in the way, but "consolidation" brings his guys 6 more inches closer anyway. Additionally, I can't fire into them if combat still exists, nor shoot through/past them. Unless there's some other trick to fire and maintain. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some basic rule or strategy, that I would love to get clarification on.
No, you've got it right. A tip would be to get your countercharge unit, if you have one, WAY out in front. Try to anticipate where he's going to rush in, and make sure you're more than six inches away. A good plan would be to stand just in front of the gunline, then charge. As long as you make it at least six inches, and don't go too much farther, the greenskins will not be able to consolidate into your gunline.

Also, what kind of missions are you playing? What kind of terrain do you have? Forcing the tide to flow around a big rock can buy you time, and force him to face you with only part of his force at once.

Here's a weird idea: Ask the guys in the IG forum. Bet they have some good ideas on how to fight Orks with a shooty army.
 

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Well first off get him on that new Ork Codex!

Also that's a rough point value... the game really doesn't shine until at least the 750+'s. Anything less and some armies can exploit tactics that other armies just can't counter at that point level. At lower point values, you've got to trust your opponent to want a fun game and a fair game, not just win-win-win.

Aside from that though, I am solidly on the 'get rid of that command squad' side of this. It really does tie up way too many points for way too little effect. The simplest use of those free'd up points would be to put more men on the table for you. Bulk out your squads, send more rounds downfield.

You could consider getting rid of the Scouts and using more Tac Marines. He's probably about Pinless, so much of their snipery goodness is wasted in this fight.

Have you considered some Grey Knights allies? They can move and shoot till their hearts content, and if he ties them up in CC they're pretty core. Of course they also have about the highest point cost in the game for a 1 wound trooper which probably means you won't get their points worth in this sort of game.

You could try and use somemore Flamers to make his life interesting, but that's a gamble.

Hope some of that helps and good luck fighting the greentide!
 

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UnderWater Ninja-Tiger ..
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785 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well first off get him on that new Ork Codex!


Have you considered some Grey Knights allies? They can move and shoot till their hearts content, and if he ties them up in CC they're pretty core. Of course they also have about the highest point cost in the game for a 1 wound trooper which probably means you won't get their points worth in this sort of game.

You could try and use somemore Flamers to make his life interesting, but that's a gamble.

Hope some of that helps and good luck fighting the greentide!

Aye, I think I've figured out the point value minimum theory after getting my head squashed a bunch of times. Also, we're just trying to play with the models we have. The list I provided is all the models I currently own, I'm nearly done painting my devastators (5) and they'll be included. The guys an I play with models that we have, while my step son mocks nearly the entire army of tyranids out of the Macragge set I started with.

My eventual goal, is to Ally myself with the Witch hunters. Using either a command structure from them or some elites. Having the Space Marines be tactical, fast attack, and a little heavy. I'm not a roll in with tanks kinda of guy. But I've read some of the fluff and the Horus Heresy books, and I like the interaction between the two. Its all for fun for me, not ever planning on playing competitively. (I still don't like the be the whipping boy opponent in my games with my friends.
 
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