[ChocolateGork]

I recently got a battle force and seeing it is the first tau thing i have got i was wondering what is the best loadout for a lone commander. i was thinking of doing something like this.

Shas’o-fragmentation launcher, flamer, shield generator, ejection system, stimulant injector-146

 

[Pingl000]

That is an expensive unit for what he would be able to do. Unless you know you are going into a special kill point mission the ejection system is never necessary.

This unit is strictly anti light infantry that would have to be at pretty close range to do it's job. I would say you should take a peek at some of the suit tactica and see if you can get some info that my help you there.

Good luck.

 

[aussiedave]

Hey there,

Check out some of the stickied threads at the top. I wrote one on HQ loadouts that is a little outdated, but most of the info still stands. Pay particular attention to the section on El' vs O'.

Have fun
Dave

 

[number6]

Probably the easiest commander to play with is the Fireknife Commander: Shas'el, plasma rifle, missile pod. Usually the 3rd hardpoint is a targeting array and then you also buy a hard-wired multi-tracker for a total of 97 pts. This guy hits reliably and can stay effective at range. And staying at range is of critical importance for Tau, especially if you're getting used to the army.

That said, commanders are where I think you can do the most loadout experimentation. I used to run the "Centurion" regularly myself (plasma rifle, cyclonic ion blaster, targeting array, hard-wired multi-tracker). It's my favorite anti-infantry suit, the CIB will regularly give you some additional AP 1 wounds. The only reason I don't run it -- or other configurations I've experimented with much anymore (e.g., plasma rifle, airbursting frag projector; plasma rifle, fusion blaster; etc.) -- is because I've settled into a more "generalist" approach with all my battlesuits and have been much happier since. YMMV, of course.

 

[Rikimaru]

The Shas'O is not worth the extra points because the only stat changes are assault orientated and you do not want the Commander in an assault if you can avoid it.
I usually run a Shas'El with the loadout number6 detailed (Plasma, MP, TA and HW multi tracker) and it is an ideal all rounder, the other build I use is to replace the Missile pod with a Fusion blaster but it takes skill to use because the short range nature of the fusion can leave the suit open to being assaulted. I use the fusion equipped suit on its own as a vehicles and tough unit killer.
The best thing with commanders is they allow us to take BS5 Plasma and that is simply to valuable to miss, coupled with BS5 Missile pods you have a potent killing machine that can handle anything save AV14 vehicles and works at range and close up. The Fusion/Plasma suit is awesome at killing things like Terminators and can hurt anything even AV14 vehicles but I would recommend getting a lot of play experience with Tau before using it.

Forget all the fancy special issue stuff, very little of it adds anything of value.

 

[haddatt]

I agree with Dave. the type of loadout on a commander depends on your army list, the role you want or need him to play and your playstyle. I personally tend to go with missile pods, targeting array and a positional relay. Inexpensive and allows me some flexibility with reserves. However, I have had and use different load outs depending on my list composition and points allowed in the battle.

 

[ChocolateGork]

Thank you for the advice i went through the tactica's and they were very helpful so i came up with this.

Shas'o-plasma rifle, Missile pod, shield generator, stimulant injector, hard-wired multi-tracker-142

i know he is expensive but the stims should help against small arms fire and the generator should help against anything big.

I took the shas'o so i could take a shield generator and increased his survivability with the extra wound.

 

[number6]

FWIW, the reason you don't see many of us employing all that wargear is because we spend the points on more guns instead. Having extra models with more weapons is generally better than having fewer models with fewer guns.

 

[ChocolateGork]

Yeah but its no use if you cant have enough units for the points not spent to make up for more units dying due to lack of protection.
But i ran him cheap id just go shas'el with the same minus the shield generator and stims plus a targetting array

 

[aussiedave]

FWIW, the reason you don't see many of us employing all that wargear is because we spend the points on more guns instead. Having extra models with more weapons is generally better than having fewer models with fewer guns.

Yeah exactly. For the points you have spent on the extra wargear you could almost buy another whole XV8. Or think of it this way, if you add another 50pts you could buy 2 cut down commanders instead.

General consensus is to use the points elsewhere.

Dave

 

[darkben]

i have shas'o with cyclic ion blaster, fusion blaster, shield generator, hard wired multitracker and stims
has served me well
twice i have gazed upon an opponents face when cyclic ion blaster wipes out 5 termies/meganobs in one round of shooting with a weapon of str3...

 

[Rikimaru]

i have shas'o with cyclic ion blaster, fusion blaster, shield generator, hard wired multitracker and stims
has served me well
twice i have gazed upon an opponents face when cyclic ion blaster wipes out 5 termies/meganobs in one round of shooting with a weapon of str3...

So are you actually putting this forward as a recomendation for using the CIB?
Odds on killing 5 termies with a CIB:
5 shots at BS5 mean 4.166r hits
5 shots needing 5+ to wound gives 1.66r wounds per shooting phase
Those 4.166r hits with 5+ to wound = 1.38 wounds
You have a 0.694 chance of rolling a six on those 4.166r hits.
So you have one shot with the Fusion and a 0.694 chance of rolling a six, I would not hold your breath waiting for the next time you kill 5 Termies dude

 

[Belfast]

I would definitely suggest rather than going with the AFP, using a centurion (CIB, PR, HWMT and TA) would serve a much better anti infantry role in most cases.

Also, in reference to the post before mine, the centurion build proves effective against termies since you get the massed 5 shots that can "rend" and 1-2 plasma shots. If you combine this with a hammerhead submunition round or two, that termy squad should be dead, running, or crippled after a round.

 

[MorbidlyObeseMonkey]

Not to mention Meganobz have 2 wounds, so your odds of killing 5 of 'em with CIB+fusion are precisely 0/1.

Yep, I'm back to annoy you guys some more!

 

[Rikimaru]

I would definitely suggest rather than going with the AFP, using a centurion (CIB, PR, HWMT and TA) would serve a much better anti infantry role in most cases.

Also, in reference to the post before mine, the centurion build proves effective against termies since you get the massed 5 shots that can "rend" and 1-2 plasma shots. If you combine this with a hammerhead submunition round or two, that termy squad should be dead, running, or crippled after a round.

A Plasma will kill 0.46 termies a turn (rapid fire), a CIB will wound 1.38. If all 5 shots hit and wound with sixes the kill rate is still only 3.33 and 5 sixes is basically never going to happen (remember the Termie gets a 5+ inv and CC Termies get 3+ Inv). The odds of killing 5 Termies with a CIB/Plasma are astronomical. To be blunt attacking Termies with a CIB is stupid. Even attacking noraml infantry is silly, we have plenty of units that kill infantry, the Shas'El is meant to kill tough targets and Plasma/Fusion or Plasma/MP do this, not CIB.
Relying on really bad odds to kill things is not the best tactic to employ.

 

[Y'he Sha'is]

I am a die-hard centurion user, but I have to admit that he has failed me many times over (but he has exceeded my expectations many times over as well). The Centurion isn't the most cost effective or elite unit there is, but he can put out a lot of shots, and it is fun to 'hope' for good roles sometimes in friendly games. Math-hammer aside, the loadout has a high degree of variability, which isn't the best thing to have with our most elite shooting unit.

That being said, in my opinion, for a beginner, I would run them in this order:
1. Fireknive Shas'El (range, range, range). See how you like to dance at 24" and fire high-strength weaponry into targets, letting the rest of the army 'mop up' the unit.
2. Helios Shas'el - or maybe a Shas'O with a SG if you like to fight in the open (whatever he shoots at dies). See how you like to fight 'in the face' of your enemy, typically targetting high-impact enemy units.

After running those 2, I think you'll get an idea of how you like your HQ to function, and you can adjust & fine-tune from there. There is not a 'best' loadout, since the HQ can fill in holes in the list that need to be filled.

Personally, I loved the Helios Shas'El (thanks to Rikis advice), but I needed more infantry killing in the list, so I adjusted accordingly.

 

[number6]

Relying on really bad odds to kill things is not the best tactic to employ.

Assuming the model firing the CIB has BS 5, the odds of rolling at least one 6 on the to-wound dice are actually "astronomically" in your favor. Which means, at rapid fire range, a Centurion will normally get 2 AP2 and 1 AP 1 wound, exactly as good as a Helios (plasma rifle, fusion blaster). However, the potential for better results than that exists. Clearly, the Centurion is one of the best pure anti-infantry loadouts that is possible.

I totally agree with you, of course, that building a suit for pure anti-infantry is not something to be encouraged. It's a very efficient build, but as you should know by now, I am strongly in favor of taking Crisis suit loadouts that threaten not just infantry, but vehicles as well. I no longer employ very many "mono-tasked" units in my armies. While I don't favor the Helios because of how close you must be to the target to function, it does at least satisfy that criterion quite nicely. The fireknife wins for me over the Helios because of its far superior range.

 

[Rikimaru]

Assuming the model firing the CIB has BS 5, the odds of rolling at least one 6 on the to-wound dice are actually "astronomically" in your favor. Which means, at rapid fire range, a Centurion will normally get 2 AP2 and 1 AP 1 wound, exactly as good as a Helios (plasma rifle, fusion blaster). However, the potential for better results than that exists. Clearly, the Centurion is one of the best pure anti-infantry loadouts that is possible.

Quite true the odds of a Fusion killing a Termie are the same as 5 CIB shots. However the Fusion is much better at killing tough models (insta kill tgh4) and armour and having a vesatile build counts for a lot. The point I was actually raising was the astronomical odds of killing five termies with a CIB and Fusion (or Plasma). Which is what put forward as a reason to take a CIB.
The Fusion and Plasma also wound pretty much everything on a 2+ and the CIB struggles to wound, needing 4+ minimum. You cannot get around the fact that the majority of the time you are going only going to be wounding with 1 or 2 shots a turn (even against TGH3) and that in my book is very very far from the best anti infantry loadouts possible.

I totally agree with you, of course, that building a suit for pure anti-infantry is not something to be encouraged. It's a very efficient build, but as you should know by now, I am strongly in favor of taking Crisis suit loadouts that threaten not just infantry, but vehicles as well. I no longer employ very many "mono-tasked" units in my armies. While I don't favor the Helios because of how close you must be to the target to function, it does at least satisfy that criterion quite nicely. The fireknife wins for me over the Helios because of its far superior range.

It all depends on the list build, Helios and Deathrains work extremely well and I am still torn between two Fireknife Els or 1 FK and a Helios. The Fireknife is a reasonable generalised build but like any build they have limitations (just as the Deathrain does for instance). That aside for the HQ XV8 the only two viable builds in my book are the Fireknife El with TA and HW multi or Helios with said TA and HW multi .

 

[haddatt]

As I said my commander loadout is usually shasel, mpod, targeting array and positional relay. 87 points. Fairly inexpensive. I agree with the cheap commander load out as I have other units that can use the points more. If it is a big point battle I will sometimes go super expensive on a commander squad. Plasma/fusion blasters for meq killing and tank hunting.

However, I would suggest going with shield drones over the shield generator. It is a bit less expensive and gives another wound. I know it isn't a perfect thing now in 5th with wound allocation and can be overcome but its the loadout I usually prefer. It does have the distinct plus of being able to take a double toughness shot with ap and if it fails it only kills the drone and not insta killing your guy.

As for CiB, glad it works for you but the HQ arena of death I ran showed me how incredibly unreliable it is. Low strength for the chance of an AP shot in my opinion is not worth it. For the cost I believe it needs a boost. Either in strength or range and I think the weapon would be more viable.

 

[xsickpeoplex]

CiB.....rending sweet!! but with that low strength it pointless.
get rid of stims and all that special stuff.
get rid of the 'O.
i usually run 2 'El's with fusion and plasma (helios)....it comes in at under 200 points.
save your points for another 'el. two 'el's are better than one 'O!