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you can, i cant think of a scenario where you'd ever want to have that unit. ;)
A Jetbike Seer Council is always awesome, and the Autarch would add some more power to it. I'd prefer a second one if the game were large enough, but the Autarch is certainly worth considering if you can't afford a second Council and don't want another Farseer.
 

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dont get me wrong, i love seer councils, especcially on bikes, but TEN warlocks? :D

once you get past 6-7 warlocks you're not really adding any killing power as anything you'd want your council to kill will die to that many locks. so by going to 10 you're losing a few hundred points that could go on other things,plus you still run the risk of being tarpitted and with a bigger council you're just going to have more of your army (points wise) tied up.
 

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Ah but eris, more 'locks means less tarpit. Plus, more psychic powers, and potentially more squads locked in combat. Further, they are a very hard unit, especially fortuned, and if he's rolling bikedar, a full bike council is a very powerful spearhead. It even gives an autarch a purpose with that laser lance (and fusion gun) and mandis.
 

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4 more locks is 8 more attacks when locked in CC. even with witchblades that translates to less than 1.5 unsaved wounds per combat against MEQs. for 200 odd points?

if you want to spend them like that ok, but i wouldnt recommend it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
you can, i cant think of a scenario where you'd ever want to have that unit. ;)
Find someone who will let u play a game with this list without the need for the models, it may look like strange list but there is meaning to this madness:

Farseer: Warding, Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Jet Bike (remember this +1T AND better save lol ), Fortune, Guide
180

10 Warlocks: Jet Bikes, 1 Enhance, 9 Destructor
495

Farseer: Warding, Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Jet Bike (remember this +1T AND better save lol ), Fortune, Guide
180

10 Warlocks: Jet Bikes, 1 Enhance, 10 Singing Spears
555

5 Dire Avengers
60

5 Dire Avengers
60

Total: 1590

Keep Fortune up at all times with the Farseers so you can re-roll faild 3+ saves (4+ if its Ap is 3 or lower)
Singing Spears open up tanks to expose the fleshy goodness
Destructor to kill the fleshy goodness then assualt with witchblades
Hide the Dire Avengers and hold objectives with them
 

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It looks good on paper but having a cheesed army is pointless if no-one will play you. Plus in any objective-based games you'll likely just draw. If you make this army and enter a tourney I hope your opponents are all Grey Knights. Just sayin'.
 

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i dont believe in cheese lists, they're a myth. the codex limits your options, anything you can take is fine. it's a wargame after all. i can understand some folks wanting to have pure fluff armies, but to met he onus should be on the fluff guy to say he's just playing fluff, rather than on the guy with list built to actually complete the missions in the rule book. if you're just playing fluff, i dont see why you'd select missions or keep score, you're already not tryingto win before you started, so..

anyway.. the 2 council list.. sooo not worried by it :D
 

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My post has very little to do with fluff and everything to do with the game of warhammer. Although it is true that this is a wargame and that the object is to win, there is also the element of fun to consider. This element is why we see various army lists, well-painted armies, interesting convertions, and everything else that makes Warhammer different from a board or card game. My only issue with the army above is that it places too much emphasis on list building and math-hammer then actuall on-board strategy and planning. In this army the player simply runs at targets and rolls dice. The enemy, likely interested in a fun and interesting game, is forced to simply shoot a bit at the only 2 actual units on the board across from him and then roll combat and pray. If cheese armies where a myth then tournaments everywhere would have no army composition scores.

In order to not completely take this thread off-topic I'll actually comment of the list: The jetbike councils will have some trouble with certain objectives. As well, you are shooting/assaulting at only 2 squads/tanks a turn. Other squads are free to line up to shoot next turn or to grab objectives. Any force capable of bunkering will quickly swarm the two squads. The army should do fine at 2000pts where you could add some more long-ranged shooting or troops.
 

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Personally, I would rather play with a fun list that I enjoy, and perhaps lose a bit more often than I should or otherwise would, than play a soulless cookie cutter army (looking at you Mech Eldar) because " it's the only thing that works."

Just me. Then again, for full disclosure, I've never been to an official Tourney and only play games locally against friends. Eventually you get to a level where winning really matters.
 

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I've never not had fun due to a list.. the games i've not enjoyed have only ever been down to my opponent being a douche. this dual 10man council list is certainly different from the lists you'd usually face, so there's a challenge in trying to adapt and defeat it (tho with this list it isnt that hard). i enjoy playing against horde armies, so why wouldnt i enjoy playing against he opposite type of army with only a couple of elite units?

comp scores.. meh.. they're far to subjective to mean anything. e.g. i run a wraithguard assault squad in my list (which is enormously fluffy, with yriel). it works and i think it's pretty cool that i've got them working like that.. but people will just see that i also have a seer council on bikes and i'll get humped on comp. as unami just demonstrated: "looking at you Mech Eldar".. like there's no variety in mechdar lists. 'yeah.. those damn space marine lists too, they're all they same, they've all got rhino's in them.'
 

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Don't get overexcited, lads. Before you start bying all those 'locks or feel sorry for your enmies remember that apart from regular battle conditions (in which you have two, very powerful, but still just two units) a single Hood or not entirely unlucky Chaos smashes this army with contemptous ease...
 

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exactly, its a bit of a rubbish list, which is pretty easy to beat with just about every codex out there.

that's part of the reason the cries of 'cheese' annoy me, they see a council so they cry, instead of actually working out the fairly simple methods of beating it. the best deterrent to this type of list (if thats what you're looking for) is smashing it into the ground.. i guarantee the guy wont play this list again after you do.

people _think_ councils are overpowered
so people _think_ TWO councils must be massively overpowered
they're not!

jezum lord mercy.. necrons(!) can beat this list ! easily !
 

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Way of Saim-Hann: Dual Jetbike Farseer Build

Saim Hann lists are actually very robust, if played correctly. And, short of tar pitting (Chaos w/lash is especially dangerous) a Seer Council with Fortune, Doom and a handful of Destructor will rip through almost anything and live to tell the tale. Fortune on that 3+ Save (or 4+ Invuln) really can't be overstated, as it gives you an 89% and 75% chance, respectively, of surviving an attack.

In non-mathhammer, you need to cause 9 regular wounds on these guys just to get one to stick, unless you're using melta/plasma, in which case you only need to cause 4 wounds. In turn, you're dishing out 5-6 Heavy Flamer shots that reroll wounds, and then following up with a Dozen Witchblade strikes in CC.

A nasty, nasty unit. Two such units have a tendency to ruin someone's day.
 

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not really..
just about every army can tie a seer council up, if not lay some hurt on them in the assault.
every army can lay hurt on them with just torrent of fire (either before they reach assault or after they've killed their 1st target).
most armies you will play are marines, there you'll find psychic hoods which will make your massively expensive unit fold incredibly fast. (not mentioning shadow in the warp).

in reference to the WOSH link, he's not talking about dual seer councils, he's talking about dual seers attached to jetbike guardian units. that's a world away from dual seer council as it's massively cheaper. the downfall of dual seer coucil is that's all you've got. dual jetbikes with seers are significantly weaker (no invul to reroll, no witchblades) but leave you alot of points to do other things in your list.
 

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I fail to see how shadow in the warp makes a difference. It neutralises your ability to roll 3 dice and pick the lowest. Now your chances of failing are up to a whooping 3/36.

One interesting point on this thread is that we are simultaneously bickering and patting ourselves on the back for having such a sick unit. It is awesome, and if I ever get my hands on a bunch of cheap Jetbikes I will doubtlessly make my own.
 

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Seems I have to say that again...

Hood/Lash/4+ Wolves Psi Ward Stuff

And why the hell would Tyrraninds be using Shadow? The rue anti-psyker does it like Shadow+Deathleaper. Now try to Fortune that! Hint: First failed Fortune = loss of circa 600 points and half fighting potential.

Also many tough untis can just hold them to manage some bunker-breaking charges or simply get Troops to sit on objectives...

Against Orks they gonna be stuck in Boyz or crisp some of them and take a nasty charge or don't engage Boyz and get charged by Nob Bikers...

And so on. I guess I don't have to say what Guard can do.

It's single win army. Then enemy will counter it easily... But to be honest, most armies can easily do that during the very first battle, which makes any competetive Loyalist armies (which may include Inquisitor for future and see the difference and never leave him home again), Wolves army especially, Chaos, Guard, Necrons (sigh), Nids.

Now remember, we're not only speaking of blocking Fortune - neither Guard nor Nids do need it... or Chaos or Necrons. There are just way of fighting back.
 

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Alright Direm you've made your point, everything in this game has a counter. You're obviously a more experienced player than me so I'm not actually arguing the point. One thing I'm unclear about is the paragraph you have for Shadow in the Warp. My understanding is that Shadow in the Warp is an effect which forces psy-tests to be taken on 3 dice discard the lowest. The FAQ stated that this cancels out with the Farseers special rule. I don't know if Deathleaper has this but that's irrelevant since everyone uses Zoans and Tyrants which all have this ability. This does however increase your chance at a failed fortune which is bad news bears.
 
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