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Senior Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to make bikes useful... I really do. But for their points cost.... everything seems so much better. D: The only use I can find effectively for them is such. (untested, I'm gonna try and test this in a week or so)

3 squads of 3 bikes, each with 2 melta guns., 119 points per squad, 357 for the triplicate. I figure that with these 9 bikes, I can kill a tank or two before they can kill all the bikes, and with three squads it'll make it so they can't just unload a massive dev squad of fire on them in one turn.

At the very least, they're meat shield to protect everyone else from getting shot at.

Your thoughts? Any other good way to use bikes?
 

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Premium Member
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I love bikes and am actually working towards replacing one of my Raptor squads with a second bike squad. If you're using 3-man squads then that is part of the problem--try 6 in a squad. There are two ways to get good use out of them. One is to tank-hunt, and between the speed to use melta rules as well as a followup powerfist, they are very effective--essential in my Night Lord armies as I don't have many heavy weapons.

The other way is to tag-team. Keep your bikes out of LOS until you have another squad about to charge. Run them out, shoot up the enemy unit, then let the other squad charge in with better odds. A plus to this is that the CC helps keep your bikes safe from shooting, but a minus is that it depends on friendly terrain.

Never underestimate turboboosting! Sometimes the ability to have a unit where you need it, when you need it, is priceless. A major example is setting up crossfires against Tau Crisis suits--turboboosting keeps them safe from plasma/rail/fusion until they're in, and TL bolters is sometimes all you need against lone suit squads.
 

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LO Zealot
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1,883 Posts
Bikes are really the swiss army knife of the chaos list, Intrepid hit it pretty much on the nose. Having the ability to be pretty much anywhere they are needed through the use of turbo boost and being able to bring melta tech along for the ride makes them a ver effective shock unit. The best luck I have had with them in the new dex has been thus:

3 man units with 2x meltas and IoCG: These units are turbo boosted first turn and then either used as a summoning platform or as a sacrificial squad to get rear armour shots on tanks.

6 man unit with IoS / IoN, 2x meltas, champ w/ PW / Fist: The IoS unit with the champ with power weapon is more of a surgical unit best suited for use against other MEQs. With the ability to get where they can be of most use and being able to strike before marines they are perfect for getting charges on things such as battle suits, Dev / havoc squads and dark reapers. The squad with IoN and the powerfist is more of a psychological tool, use them boldly and watch as your enemy abandons his whole game plan to try and deal with the T6 monsters you are throwing his way.
 

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Senior Member
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
But for the points cost of those guys, couldn't I just run termies or 2x the normal mans, or chosen or just... I don't know. I'm starting to see what you said about using them, but why bikes over raptors who're 60% the cost?
 

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LO Zealot
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raptors may be cheaper but again they do not have a toughness increase nor the ability to turbo boost. Like I said, bikes are the swiss army knife of the chaos army list and require more finesse than raptors. Plus, you just can't argue with a bunch of T6 Marines that can get where they need to be.
 

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resident iconoclast
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791 Posts
With loyal marines, the tradeoff between Bikes and Assault Marines is not a very good one. Space Marine bikes lose an attack and gain toughness and movement--and they cost significantly more.

Chaos bikes also cost significantly more than Raptors, but they're strictly superiour except for cost. They have the same numbers of attacks, the same options, but they're faster and tougher. They have Turbo-boosters--sweet, sweet turboboosters--which make them about the best at getting to combat, on an individual basis, of any unit in the entire game.

Bikes are absolutely a worthwhile choice for Chaos Space Marines. They might even be better than Raptors, on the whole. I'm undecided. Regardless, I can't condone the notion that they are underpowered in any way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think my biggest problem is I'm unable to use mobile things in a very effective way, so most the time when I use stuff like raptors their on a suicide mission to kill something. In the old codex, I wasn't able to make my raptor squads make up their points, ever.... and with the new one, they're mostly just mobile normal marines for me, so I can use them okay. but with the massive cost of the bikes... I dunno. I'm looking at turning them into tank killers / deep strike homers.

Can anyone give good examples and like, pictures and stuff of how to use mobile things effectively? I know you should use cover to keep them hidden from like, plasma cannons and stuff but I often can't figure out the best way to move them to get them to be efficient.
 

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Swarm Queen of LO
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The trick to using bikers is to know who they can take and who they can't. Big 10 man squads with hidden powerfists are bad targets. 8 Man Havoc-type squads with no ACs and 4 heavy weapons are good targets.

Think of them as predators and pack hunters - like wolves. A pack of wolves (or any predator) will study their prey, pick out the weakest member of the herd, approach that member cautiously until they are within striking distance then rush in for the kill. That's what your bikers should do.
 

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and dont forget the 2+ inv. you are getting with the icon of tzeentch and the turbo booster. sooooo delicious! ;Y
 

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Senior Member
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Can you still charge after the turbo boooooost? Or shoot? Anything?
 

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resident iconoclast
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791 Posts
No, if you Turbo-Boost, that's all you get to do. You can't charge, and you can't shoot. Trust me--it's stll almost the best ability in the game. Moving 24" and making your save invulnerable is fantastic.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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and dont forget the 2+ inv. you are getting with the icon of tzeentch and the turbo booster. sooooo delicious! ;Y
This is still up for debate. G.W. does not always permit conditional mechanics such as the inv save granted by turbo-boost to be stacked with static abilities, such as the inv save conferred by the IoT.

Though, the more I read about this issue, the more I'm favoring the two inv saves stacking.
 

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Re: the above regarding the turbo-boost invuns,

I'm pretty sure it does stack, after all now that nurgle toughness stacks it's only fair. Also, and more importantly, Codex CSM does state that the best invun you can ever get is a 2+, bikers with MoT being the ONLY way you can get that, that i'm aware of. .


Anyway

I find bikers insanely useful for turboboosting up behind a wall or something, right near the enemy, and the next turn summoning / deep striking scary things with bike-guided precision :D

Plus, the T5 of normal bikers is enough to shrug off most of the CC attacks that infantry can muster, even 4 bikers can take on squads much larger and win (don't forget the Asp Champ's power fist though!).
 

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who needs cover if you got a 2+ inv? just turboboost infront of the enemy, survive all the annoying gunshots, next round you unleash your deepstriking goodness, shoot and charge into battle. how much more fun can you have?

imagine yourself laughing insanely and shouting "im invincible, im invincible!" while doing that. he he. and now imagine your enemys face when he/she finds out that you are not insane! aaaaah, its just too evil to be true...
 

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I've been using a squad of 6 with IoN, melta guns and a champ with powerfist and melta bombs in my Death Guard army regularly since the new dex came out, not only do they distract a lot of high strength firepower away from your vehicles but their maneuverability is so useful.

I use them either as a distraction ( an expensive one though :p ), a vehicle hunting tool or as a flanking anti light infanty assault unit. As they keep their t/l bolters when you give them melta guns they can still perform their anti infantry roll, plus at T6 there are very few infantry units that can handle them without a powerfist.

So yeah, 2 thumbs up for bikes for sure!
 

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LO Zealot
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Rabbit said:
This is still up for debate. G.W. does not always permit conditional mechanics such as the inv save granted by turbo-boost to be stacked with static abilities, such as the inv save conferred by the IoT.

Though, the more I read about this issue, the more I'm favoring the two inv saves stacking.
I agree here, I am now firmly of the camp that supports the 2+ invulnerable.

I just wanted to add a little bit to what has been said here already and say that in general I do not think it is a good idea to take a powerfist in a bike squad that is less than 6 models unless the IoN has been taken as well. Bike squads tend to be so small that you really want those extra hits to come through from the champion as soon as possible unless you have a good enough reason to believe that you will not suffer too badly from the hits you will take before your champion gets to strike.

imo if you are taking bikers for more than just a sacrificial tank hunting unit / teleport homer they should be outfitted like this:

6x bikers, IoS, 2x meltas/flamers, champ w/ PW + melta bombs

or

6x bikers, IoN, 2x meltas/flamers, champ w/ fist

With the first option you are hitting at I5 which allows you to get all of your shots in before or at the same time as most other models in the game while the melta bombs provide a measure of security should you end up in combat with a walker.

The second squad does not care so much about striking first due to the fact that anything short of a walker / MC / opposing fist is not going to be able to scratch them.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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8,843 Posts
Re: the above regarding the turbo-boost invuns,

I'm pretty sure it does stack, after all now that nurgle toughness stacks it's only fair. Also, and more importantly, Codex CSM does state that the best invun you can ever get is a 2+, bikers with MoT being the ONLY way you can get that, that i'm aware of. .
Just to feed this tangent a bit more: Look at it this way: The IoN stacks with the natural +1T of bikes, but they are both static characteristics. My concern with stacking the IoT w/ the turbo-boost inv save is that the 'turbo-save' is conditional. G.W. sometimes favors stacking conditional mechanics with static, and sometimes they don't.

All that said, they probably do stack, so it's a MOOT point.

EDITED TO REFLECT THE GRAMMATICAL CORRECTION OF LEFTY (TANKS)
 

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resident iconoclast
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791 Posts
Rabbit, the word is "moot." Mute means unable to speak. ;)
 

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Me personally hav had no help with bikes.
Sorry to be so negative, but its the trueth!
In the past i hav taken 2, 3 man squads and i usally find that they will destract the enemy for one maybe 2 turns but that is all they reaaly do. even if u boost them, you can't assult so they normally just get destroyed!
But in a few cases they hav managed to take out a unit or 2 so it is 50/50 in my opinon!
It is your choice, but i wouldn't take them and i hav sum experience in this topic?

Proper use of capitalization and complete words please ;)
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Dark, see the following post (which is found at the top of this page):

No, if you Turbo-Boost, that's all you get to do. You can't charge, and you can't shoot. Trust me--it's stll almost the best ability in the game. Moving 24" and making your save invulnerable is fantastic.
EDIT: Dark, those small squads are obvious target for your opponent. They're easy to destroy and yield quick special weapon kills. Try Ironangel's six man units. They are considerably better ;)
 
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