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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some commentary on my first Black Templar army list. I haven't seen this go into effect yet, (due to lack of cash and lack of fluff,) but I wanna see if anyone can spot a major weak point in this for the general scheme of things.

Just to get ahead of transport lovers, my troop squads are too big to fit on anything short of the BT Land Raider Crusader, and since I don't have a Command Squad, no transport for the HQ. And personally, I don't feel like dropping 765 points for three land raiders.

Army Allocation (1500):
HQ - 222
Elite - 235
Troops - 543
Fast Attack - 170
Heavy Support - 330

HQ
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Emperor's Champion 105 = 105

Black Templar High Marshal 117 = 60 + 30 + 25 + 2
with two lightning claws
with terminator armour
with krak grenades

Elite
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Dreadnaught 125 = 75 + 40 + 10
with plasma cannon
with missle launcher instead of close combat weapon

Vindicare Assassin 110 = 110

Troops
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Black Templars Squad 181 = 160 + 15 + 6
Initiate with lascannon
Initiate with flamer
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with bolt pistol and close combat weapon

Black Templars Squad 181 = 160 + 15 + 6
Initiate with lascannon
Initiate with flamer
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with bolt pistol and close combat weapon

Black Templars Squad 181 = 160 + 15 + 6
Initiate with lascannon
Initiate with flamer
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Initiate with bolter
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with shotgun
Neophyte with bolt pistol and close combat weapon


Fast Attack
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Land Speeder Tornado 85 = 75 + 10
with assault cannon instead of heavy flamer

Land Speeder Tornado 85 = 75 + 10
with assault cannon instead of heavy flamer


Heavy Support
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Whirlwind 80 = 75 + 5
with extra armour

Vindicator 125 = 120 + 5
with extra armour

Predator Destructor 125 = 100 + 10 + 10 + 5
with heavy bolter side sponsons
with pintle-mounted storm bolters
with extra armour

Well, this is the first draft. Any suggestions?
 

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My suggestion is that if you aren't going to use rhinos, give them the vow for the 6+ inv save because they are going to be taking some hits. Unless you know the opponent will have a psyker...that free move would help out a lot.
 

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hmmmm, not bad, but its more of a "codex" army than a BT crusade
- next things u add to your army should without doubt be:

Assault squads- take one squad with 2 power weapons
one squad with 2 powerfists and 5 or more storm shields
Attack bike squadron with multi meltas is really good for dealing with tanks, but u could simply replace ur land speeders heavy bolters if you want

Black Templars squads with close combat weapons, and a power weapon/fist

Land Raider Crusaders to put them in (dont bother with the normal land raider)
 

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Cant have the Emporers Champion as a HQ. Updated rules for the Templar as per Armaggedon say he has to be in the army but cannot be taken as a HQ
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I know the Emperor's Champion rule for Black Templar, I simply put him there because I don't feel like making an "Extras" section. If he was my HQ, I'd toss the Force Commander. :lol:

To Marshal: O_O. Holy cow, that's alot of point redecorating...
Land Raider Crusader = 255
Assault Squad with power weapons = 145
Assault Squad with power fists and storm shields = 170
Black Tempar Squad with power fist = 90
Upgrade the heavy bolters to multi-melta on LSTs = 30

So I'd have to free up about.... 690 points. -_-;;;
And this is with the bare minimum in each squad, and only ONE Land Raider when I'd have 3+ BT squads... Any suggestions as to what I should remove to make these without doubt changes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As for the Codex army note, yes, my list uses alot of the BT's allowed units from the regular codex... but then again, that simply means that codex uses the exact same vehicles and units as regular Space Marines which, in the end, means they're all Black Templar units. As for sticking with BT-list-only units, their only heavy support is the LRC, (the heavily-armored point-monging monster of doom,) and they have no Elite choices of their own. Only logical changes I could make to create a more "BT-unit-only" army would be to throw out the land speeders for one assault squad or one bike squad, and throw out most of my heavy support for a Land Raider...

In the end, I figure that if the codex tells you they can use it, that basically means it's a Black Templar unit.

Only flaw in my army in that view is the assassin, but what can I say, I friggin love the Vindicare. :D
 

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sorry i think u misunderstood what i meant by 'codex'- im not saying you cant take it, im saying that in my opinion, to maximise on the BT strengths, its best to capitalize on your advantages- e.g. CCWs in BT squads- this doubles you attacks and therefore (theoretically) you close combat potential (which no 'codex' chapter can do)

also, i meant that u could add some of the more potent, black templar only units (eg. assault marines w/storm sheilds) to your army in general, and this in turn would allow u more flexibility when deciding what u want in say 1500 pt armies (for example, u may wish to go total assault, as i do, or u can take a more balanced force)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ahhh, I see what you mean. Sorry for the confusion. :ph34r:

I've always been a big fan of shooting, (big shock,) and am hardly ever all that interested in melee... which would seem rather stupid, what with a Chapter of SMs that have two vows dedicated directly to melee, (with two others that could help CC quite well also.) On top of that, I can never get enough of yummy-for-my-tummy lascannons, and so I'd probably end up taking the regular Land Raider, (as for multi-meltas, if I went with these changes, I'd go ahead and take the attack bikes as previously suggested, though I forget whether or not bike riders can move and fire heavy weapons like terminators or other vehicles. On top of that, assault squad has jump packs, so isn't that enough for mobility to the point I wouldn't need a Land Raider?

I am considering replacing one of my troop choices with the assault squad though, since the shields can make their two power fists pretty handy, (but God do I hate 5-man squads.)

Oh, and does anyone think I should drop the Assassin? If so, what should I replace it with?
 

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:huh: Dude why choose BT. IF you like Shooting then chose an army that can shoot. IF you still want marines then just play Vanilla Marines since you are making your own fluff plus there more flexable then BT. Sure you wont have Vows and stuff but its a better choice
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
*sigh* If anything, I just hope the Sisters of Battle get upgraded a few notches in the Witch Hunters codex, that is, IF it's not complete bullstuff, (if you have a site with official announcement, please gimme link on this forum.)

Well, I guess I might have to look into the Vanilla Marines option... too bad, I really enjoyed the BT fluff. -_-; Of course, if the Witch Hunters turns out to make SoBs badass, (*wishes for SoB ordnance weapons*,) I'll leave this altogether...

Well, thanks for your help everyone, but after thinking about it alittle more, I think I'd just be better off trying something else...

EDIT: Hey JKornX, mebbe u shoulda noted this for me beforehand, eh? :blink:
 

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u can always use BT models as Vanilla Marines, no emperors champion but u get an army which is more versatile

Just count them as templars who consider the codex astartes holy enough to be followed to the letter
 

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well bro you never said I like to shoot <_<. If you totally quit on Marines try TAU since I know you like anime. Eldar are great shooters and can be scary in HtH if you use the right units. We all know that IG is shooty. Tzeenth arimes are shooty and can figh HtH and Iron Warriors are like that as well. :p
 

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Black Templar are a very versitile army. When you start playing you get to choose the last part of your army, the vow. It is a very nice thing. You can choose you vow according to your opponents set up and army. Also they have the biggest tactical squads of most Space marine armies. and they are an excellent shooting army. If you are patient. YOu can just sit beck there and plug away at your enemies if they are like orks or nids. and if they get into combat you can have the vow "take any challenge no matter the odds". another thing they "have" to take the emperor's champion, oh too bad. that really sucks, NOT. I have never lost with my BT army. NEVER. I have played in many times against everything from tau to eldar. Never underestimate your enemy.
Archon Lord Zucrous Shadowhelm "the Reaper of Souls" Supreme Dark Lord of the Kabal of the Severed Soul
 

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Black Templars are versitile in HtH but they are not a versitile army

They immediately lack Devestators- by far the best Space Marine heavy support option, they lack scouts to infiltrate and they do not get librarians

The result of the above means that they will lose against most other space marine armies one on one in a shoot out. Indeed, we can get plasma cannons in basic squads but before u celebrate think of it this way->

To get four plasma cannons it costs a minimum of 360 pts (4 5man squads+pc), whereas vanilla marines will get 4 plasma cannons for 230 pts, and they can get a maximum of 12 (none of this is including dreadnoughts) whereas we will get 6 max. Therefore the claim that Black Templars can be shooty is unmitigated piffle

Black Templars therfore depend on getting into close combat, however, if this is impractical due to some annoying mission objective/enemy ability, BT can be at a serious disadavantage compared to other chapters.

however, naturally the offset of this is that we are the best HtH chapter (in my opinion). The emperors champ can be a waste against some armies (eldar and a few others can simply run away from him) but he can be brilliant against others. Also the huge amount of power weaponary we have access to is extremely valuable
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bleh to Tau, bleh to Chaos, bleh to Eldar, and UBER-BLEH to Imps. :a

How are Tau anime-related?

I'm just gonna try the regular marines... make a shooty bunch, with them. And the attack bikes suggestion. Gonna put that into practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh, and is there a particularly shooty marine chapter?
 

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how is dark angels shooty its not like they have special shooting rules. and to answer the anime question, people find them alot liek anime cause of the mech feel and I personally feel that grouping everything in elements(fire,water,earth,etc) makes them a bit orietal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Dreadnaught = RX-78-2 Mobile Suit Gundam.
Tau Battlesuit = RGM-79 (G) GM.
;)

Only way I can think of Dark Angels as shooty is that their intractable check makes it so that they can't assault, FORCING them to shoot if they want to hurt someone.

You could, however, note that their termies can get TWO assault cannons instead of just one, and that their new land speeder squadron basically allows for a squad of land speeder tornadoes when u give each the additional assault cannon, (thus letting you field up to 9 tornadoes instead of 3, in standard form.)

Aside from that though, Dark Angels really don't get all that shooty, far as I'm concerned.
 

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Dark angels are easily a shooty chapter- firstly, no close combat benefits (without going into deathwing and ravenwing here) and they get Plasma Cannons in their basic squads as well as all the rest of the weapon options, which means that they are better equiped to shoot than other chapters

However, they still are respectable in close combat- it merely means that u can tailor ur DA army to the manner u see fit
 
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