[Plague_00]

hey i'm having magor trouble fighting against the black templars as every time i go yay he finally failed a few armor saves then he whips out X no of dice and charges for my line, my question is how are other armies supposed to counter this?

 

[warrior poet]

Shoot them to death, then mass counter charge when their weak...:yes: Although it really depends on what army you play...

 

[Plague_00]

eldar and sob's both shooty with only one dedicated cc and they're marines you can't kill enough and when they fail those rare armour save they get CLOSER!, wheres the justice in that, gw have taken the most valuable rule in 40k and warped and twisted it so that their precious marines are pretty much unbeatable.

 

[Zatt]

Force them to advance toward units that are away from the main effort of your army by keeping some your main units back a bit. The Black Templars can only get the bonus move if they suffer 1+ casualtie(s) and succeed a Leadership check. Not only will you draw them farther away by engaging them in this manner (since they HAVE to move toward the nearest unit), but you'll also thin them out a bit. After you've opened them up, divided their forces and chewed on their units for a while, bring up your heavies and hit them from behind.

 

[AgeofGold]

Starcannons are good, and if you get into cc make sure you get the charge. Any thing that will lower the armor save or give him no armor save. Your faster than him so get that charge and see what you can do.

 

[darqueknight]

like plague says. I play BT, and the most annoying thing is when i got shoot at from one unit, but have to move toward the nearst unit, which happens to be somthing behind me. It just takes a bit of thinking and planning...take a cheapish unit that can jump over terrain, and make sure its always the closet unit....the BT have to go towards it.....not only effective, but really annoying for your mate....

 

[dicegod]

use skimmers and keer them behind terrain and make sure they are the nearest enemy. also kill one unit first and then move to the other. remember that they need to take one casualtie first.

 

[Cypher_Redeemed]

Is it warp spiders than can drop back out of combat if so couldnt you deep strike behind a BT unit when its necessary for a distraction then keep leaping awaydragging that squad with you.

Mind you Im probably talking out my ... part of my body I donot beleive im alowwed to talk about... so check the rules Im probaly mistaking it with something from Chaos or something.

 

[Lord Malachi]

To take out Templars you must sit back and shoot. Lots of missiles will help. If you play space elves use star cannons. As previously mentioned you could set a trap by throwing a cheap squad between the BT and your army to draw charging Tamplars towards them and away from your main force.

PS - Don't hate on the Templars. Their ability to get a few extra inches of movement towards you when they take casualties is more than offset by their lack of dev squads and whirlwinds.

 

[Plague_00]

"PS - Don't hate on the Templars. Their ability to get a few extra inches of movement towards you when they take casualties is more than offset by their lack of dev squads and whirlwinds."


pshh yeh of course you know cus a mainly assault army wants to stick back and fire

like i sed in wh i have a =][= lord that is tooled up to assault and a banshee unit for eldar the rest is mainly sisters or guardian defenders so splitting them up is not viable option for me and as for skimmers in eldar only a few vypers and a falcon for wh a unit of 7 seraphim none would stand to a templar assault so sticking em close to the enemy (and in range of heavy b's etc) is not so much brave as suicidal

 

[The_Outsider]

I would aim to take out a squad at a time, normally splitting your fire works well but against BT its a no no. Fire as much of your army at one squad in the hope to kill them all, then move on, it is a good way to thin out numbers and keep them at arms length.

 

[Bob Dole]

"PS - Don't hate on the Templars. Their ability to get a few extra inches of movement towards you when they take casualties is more than offset by their lack of dev squads and whirlwinds."


pshh yeh of course you know cus a mainly assault army wants to stick back and fire

Mainly, not solely.

Now, I realize it is pointless to take the bait on this, but I've got some time to kill. Black Templars are not monsters in close combat. They're not much better than a Take the Fight to Them army, really. Pit them against World Eaters or Tyranids, and I don't think it'll go very well if all you focus on is assault.

Black Templars need some shooting power. Devastator squads are great for that. Five or six man heavy weapon teams are nice as well. Black Templars can't take Devastator squads, and Righteous Zeal can screw up a heavy weapons team if you're trying to keep it in position. As such, we have to rely largely on tanks (as well as Dreadnoughts and bikes) for fire support. Space Marine tanks are, sadly, not the best of units.

Even if you believe our tanks are the best thing since sliced bread, Righteous Zeal (and the BT special rules) restrict options. This is a fact. It is never better to have fewer options than more, assuming that you are able to choose freely from all options. On top of this penalty, we pay an additional point for our Marines. On top of these two penalties, we are fearless in close combat. This is, with the No Retreat! and And They Shall Know No Fear rules, is quite possibly worse than not being fearless.

The best thing I've ever really seen about Righteous Zeal is that, if your opponent wants to charge you, they need to decide if they want to get off the charge or get in a round of shooting. If they're reasonably close and shoot, the Templars will quite possibly Zeal into the opposing unit and deny them a charge.

 

[Plague_00]

i've never seen a templer player that wanted to shoot and face it the list can quite easly compete with khorne etc in the assault phase and cus of the vows could have quite an advantage over most.

 

[Zephyr_the_AzureWind]

not really. I think the black templars style of close combat is a dud....no offense. With all the traits the space marines can pull now they're pretty even in CC, stronger because u pay the points for it.
But every time I see them in action I see them getting beaten in the assault....mostly because they get stuck in assault with something they should not be with(Carnifex....howling banshees.....bloodletters....my assault marines)

but the weakness of all SM is AP, you should be deploying at least 3 vypers with starcannons and every guardian squad should have one of those grav platform cannons.
(or was it something else? I only played eldar a couple but those AP3 completly tore through my army)


post up your army list later.

 

[numberofthebeastxxx]

Why not run a farser with your banshees to give them re-rolls on armor saves, shoot the BT's to death with starcannons, and charge the weakened squad with your farseer and banshees. Rinse and repeat. The banshees will hit 1st, with all those powerweapon attacks, plus the exarch and farseer should bring plenty killin's. Even if they get to hit back, thats what your farseer is for, to get the re-rolls. After a few turns doing this, the BT force will be severley weakened. :yes:

 

[Zatt]

… but the weakness of all SM is AP, you should be deploying at least 3 vypers with starcannons and every guardian squad should have one of those grav platform cannons.
(or was it something else? I only played eldar a couple but those AP3 completly tore through my army)

post up your army list later.

Starcannons are AP 2.

The problem with beginning to use equipment over tactics is that you'll start an 'arms race'. The more Starcannons you add, if your opponent is willing to spend money as well, the more Assault Cannons you might face. Then you'll be back to square one.

Stick with using cheaper units and keep them close to key Black Templar units, so that they will have to advance toward them when they make their "Righteous Zeal" rolls. Use your 'fleet' rule to out run them and draw them in multiple directions, then engage small portions of his force with the majority of your army's strength.

Just buying a bunch of heavy powered weaponry degrades to power gaming at some point and very cheezy army lists. Besides, it takes away from the fun for you and your opponent.

 

[Plague_00]

all right a basic run down of my list is 32 defenders (2 units) with warlocks and conceal, 2 farseers with fortune and mindwar + spirtstones and row (the run with the defenders to give them the re-rollable 5+cover, 16 storm guardians with 2 flamers and a warlock with enhance, 2 vypers with brightlances and 2 with starcannons a falcon with starcannons and 3 d'cannons, 10 bansh with powerblades on ex mounted in wave serpent with twin brightlances and spiritstones,

thats about 1500 points give or take.