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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
a tzeentch beasts of chaos army...

minimum 12 power / 7 dispel dice... 170 models in the average build... ambushing units... skirmishing... cav ignoring forest terrain... i've mucked about with proxies a few dozen games and have seen nothing but smashing results...

whats the drawback to any flavor of tz beastmen horde vs. their mortal equivalents... characters are slightly less powerful, sure... but they don't lose much compared to a huge point reduction...

anyway, what am i missing here? what brings these guys down to earth?

lemee know ya'lls experience... thanks!
 

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King of Librarium's Tombs
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Leadership. Its the Achilles heel of any Beasts based list. Psychology is your wealkness, and it plays quite a large part in Fantasy generally.
Also, lack of Armour can hurt too.

Still, with all the positives you mentioned, a Tzeentch list can be pretty awesome.
 

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LO Zealot
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Leadership. Its the Achilles heel of any Beasts based list. Psychology is your wealkness, and it plays quite a large part in Fantasy generally.
Also, lack of Armour can hurt too.

Still, with all the positives you mentioned, a Tzeentch list can be pretty awesome.
tzeentch lore kind of stinks if you can't roll well on dice. I love how much damage my 1 strength 1 hit does to your unit. Besides leadership and lack of armor, the unruly nature of herds can sometimes backfire on people. Ambushing can sometimes do diddly squat and can actually hurt you against some armies.
 

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I play a tzeentch beastman army and taking fear checks stinks! Remember herd are at best leadership 7 without aid of a character. This will prevent charges, make you run, and hurt your plans frequently. So far i'm 2 win 2 losses vs undead. I'm 2-0 vs tomb kings, 0-2 vs vampire counts. I've found ironically the banshee is the bane of the beast herd. They cause massive amounts of wounds for what they do. Combining with panic checks, its really hard to take massed leadership checks with beastman.

On the bonus, a balanced beasts army is really hard for opponents to deal with. Massed magic, plus a few minotaurs, plus chariots is incredible. Add in some furies, and it can be a really good army. Its got number, magic, and hard units, plus the skirmish ability is really a bonus. Ambushing is a mixed bag, i don't do it as i like to have my characters open to cast and hammer in, but i've done it a few times with great effects.

Lastly, giants and shaggoths really are the great equalizers. Shaggoths are expensive, but they really do hold their own in combats, plus str 7 can kill chariots easily, and its high movement is a huge threat.
 

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LO Zealot
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I play a tzeentch beastman army and taking fear checks stinks! Remember herd are at best leadership 7 without aid of a character. This will prevent charges, make you run, and hurt your plans frequently. So far i'm 2 win 2 losses vs undead. I'm 2-0 vs tomb kings, 0-2 vs vampire counts. I've found ironically the banshee is the bane of the beast herd. They cause massive amounts of wounds for what they do. Combining with panic checks, its really hard to take massed leadership checks with beastman.

On the bonus, a balanced beasts army is really hard for opponents to deal with. Massed magic, plus a few minotaurs, plus chariots is incredible. Add in some furies, and it can be a really good army. Its got number, magic, and hard units, plus the skirmish ability is really a bonus. Ambushing is a mixed bag, i don't do it as i like to have my characters open to cast and hammer in, but i've done it a few times with great effects.

Lastly, giants and shaggoths really are the great equalizers. Shaggoths are expensive, but they really do hold their own in combats, plus str 7 can kill chariots easily, and its high movement is a huge threat.
I've played Tzeentch and I've got a friend who will work wonders with his Slaaneshi Beasts - but he complains of the same problems over and over again; unruly, leadership 7, no armor, poor ranks, etc.

I prefered to play undivided and even playing really well, could barely do better than 55-60% wins.

I'll disagree with you on the Giants and shaggoths. In some circles they may do well, but I believe they are too unpredictable and frail and expensive. Dragon Ogres and spawn of slaanesh are the only rare troops to be taken in a beast army. Giant maybe, but he's still going to do something you don't want him to 1-2 a game and will eventually lose you a game. And don't get me started on Shaggoths. They need a serious overhaul (as does the entire book). Not fast enough, can't hit anything, so expensive, so weak and frail, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
interesting

i've been running with:

1 beastlord
3 wargors
2 beast herds
1 warhounds
1 chariot
2 marauders
1 centigors
1 screamer
1 chaos giant
2 spawn

everyone lines up in range of general/btl std... the herds go into ambush if necessary but not always... the only thing i lose is one ld point as compared to a chaos lord... the 220ish points i save over their mortal equivalents... the skirmishers protect flanks or support charges... the warhounds harass with the centigors and march block one side... the screamers do the same on the other... the spawn bog down w/e they need to and the giant is awesome as always...

does the usual composition involve a lot more spread or ambushing units? i'm not sure i've come across the problem of leadership you're describing... what's your usual army composition?
 

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Nightlord
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In my opinion tzeentch beasts are one of the best builds out there for beasts of chaos. Sure leadership is can be a problem, but it one of the most fun armies to play. Use your large pool of power dice to your advantage the best you can to stop that psychology from killing you. All in all they tend to have one of the better defenses against poor psychology compared to the other marks just because of all the spells they can get. Don't feel that you need to only take tzeentch characters, using bray shamans can give you access to other magic lores that can help you greatly. Don't forget that bear's anger and orange fire makes one insane killing machine! Doom and Darkness combos very well with the final tzeentch spell as characters will be testing to instantly die on Ld7 at best. The list of combos continues, find out more for yourself!
 
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