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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this is sorta the other half of my "I hate James Swallow's Blood Angels books" post - but does anyone else think the most recent additions to the Blood Angels army list are really stupid? Astorath the Grim? The Sanguinor? The Sanguinary Guard? And they have wings? Come on, what dumbass thought putting actual wings on the models would make them look cool? I always thought power armor looked a bit too bulky to really be practical before, but obviously it's a game, don't take it too seriously... but wings, and cherub face masks? They look like they should be killed just for dressing up like pansies and going to war like that.

Was the BA Honor Guard just not good enough? I suppose a new generation of Death Company models is forgiveable, but was one Chaplain special character in Lemartes just not enough? The Sanguinor? BA's own personal Legion of the Damned-type character? Really? REALLY? I know I seem like a complete dork right now, but stop adding to a chapter that already has more unique shit than any other.

Hey GW, you realize you still have several major chapters that have practically noooo representation in your models. Can we see some better White Scars bikers? Or maybe a decent Iron Hands conversion set? Maybe a couple of characters for them? Salamanders and Raven Guard also severely lacking, not as bad as those first two though. I realize that it can't be easy to completely diversify, and it's probably expensive, but when you kick off a new version of the game, don't add stupid things to a Chapter that already has enough unique models, show us something new! Hell I think they've even done away with Moriar... somebody is overthinking these things (aside from me in this post)

Side note: whatever happened to Asmodai of the Dark Angels? Was never a DA player, but I had the Angels of Death codex and when I recently scanned through the most up to date DA codex I noticed he's gone... how long has he been gone for?
 

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Astorath the Grim? The Sanguinor? The Sanguinary Guard? And they have wings? Come on, what dumbass thought putting actual wings on the models would make them look cool? I always thought power armor looked a bit too bulky to really be practical before, but obviously it's a game, don't take it too seriously... but wings, and cherub face masks?
The same ones that probably designed the following:Back banners,Space marines with tabards and robes(BT and DA) respectively,every model that has 10km of chains on it,every space marine that wears a skull faced mask and carries a ton of skulls,power fists,dreadknights,imperial vehicles and the new necron vehicles.
So...Wings are not something that should be considered off IMHO.In fact if you can accept all the rest you get into the 40k mentality and those things no longer concern you.You actually grow to like them.I personally think that most people like the new BA winged theme and the units you mention.I ve grown to think 40k as wests anime tabletop wargame.

As for your side note:He got dropped in the 4th codex but there is a box in there telling us that he is the most successful interrogator and he still carries the blades of reason.Probably high command decreed that he is too valuable to risk in a combat zone and they have him in the rock to play.He must be also old to boot...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
See literally every single one of those other things you listed makes sense to me. Space Marines are basically sci-fi knights, combined with idea of Power Armor made popular by Heinlein and other writers / media - banners, tabards, monastic robes, skulls, chains... all the types of things knightly-esque soldiers would have with them. I can't buy the wings... really lame, knights do not wear wings, save that shit for the eldar - and I get that BAs are probably the most popular chapter, if not most popular overall faction, in the game. So just come up with some new versions of the things they already have. New Death Company is fine, new Furioso dreadnought fine, new Baal-pattern Predator, fine (actually, I'm not sure when they updated this one, I have the original though) - but I'm of the opinion that the only reason these new characters are selling is b/c there are so many BA players out there. However, a decent single box set of Salamanders, Raven Guard, White Scars (the WS bike set really is pathetic), or Iron Hands would sell like CRAZY - you could probably make a single codex for all four of those chapters in one if they did it right! I just wish GW would expand at a more uniform rate, a new edition of the game usually breeds a new faction or two, and all the existing Space Marine chapters that have their own codexes have more than enough unique model sets to satisfy a player. IM.not.so.HO

Signed
- Regrettably disillusioned
 

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Cant say i really understand your logic...All those things are ridiculous from a realistic point of view.
I havent heard of any medieval knights (reality wise) going into battle wearing chains robes and stuff,so if you accept those,wings is just another of those things.You cant go into combat with all those things hanging around even if you wear power armor.
A flamethrowing tank 40k years in the future?Even on our century tanks have been relegated as a secondary means of warfare and flamers are considered almost obsolete.They even placed the fuel barrels of the baneblade atop it...But to each his due i guess.

Dont get me wrong,i have no intention of discrediting your opinion but i think that the golden rule in this setting is this: WH40k # Reality in every aspect.Hell even physics dont work the same way.What i understood is that rules work this way in 40k: Cooler > Reality.
So it would be good to come to terms with it.If the wings are something that turn you off then simply ignore them.There is nobody that says you have to place them there.As long as you care for game mechanics the jump pack is all you need.

As for the proposal for the new kits.I would say i agree with you but there is something that swings me to the other side.Do we need more marine dexes?Hell do we even need even a new combined 4 chapter codex?I would say no.There are people who say that they should even reduce the existing line and merge it with the main marine dex.I wholeheartedly i agree that new kits would be awesome but new dexes no.Marines are fine as they are just give more chapter options and redo the kits you mentioned.

Just my 2 cents.

And a side-note:THQ made a poll in regards to which chapter is the most popular a few months back,and the first chapter was templars followed by DA with a handful of votes difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
While I'll certainly concede that it was highly unlikely that medieval knights ever wore skull helms or chains into battle, I can't really see it as having been impractical one way or the other, mostly just decorative. With respect to the physics of 40k, they don't particularly make a difference (space marine power armor seemingly can carry so much crap attached to it without becoming the least bit encumbered) - as for things such as robes and tabards and the like, Christian knightly orders such as the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller, among other Christian crusaders, are traditionally depicted as wearing all forms of monastic garb over their armor (Knights Templar... Black Templars... it's in the name dude). Now, whether or not these knights actually did wear such things into battle, I have no idea, I did spend a small amount of time trying to look this up and I couldn't find anything that said one way or the other. From a practical point of view, sure, such accessories do appear rather impractical, but then again, these are medieval Christians we're talking about, wearing the garb of their orders may well have been considered an added form of divine protection, or God's blessing, or simply a way to identify allies from enemies on the battle. Regardless of the truth of the matter, the precedent for such things has been set. Plus, returning to the physics of 40k... I can't see how a set of robes could ever have possibly slowed down / encumbered a marine in power armor, even if it got caught on something I would assume that the whole thing would tear away under the strength of force applied by said armor. Regardless of it all, I'm not trying to say which of us is really right in terms of practicality, but historical precedent is set, at least in terms of formal presentation, I'm just a little surprised you'd say that you hadn't ever heard of such a thing.

As for other aspects of 40k tech I agree, they are quite retarded from realistic points of view... though again, you cite the Hellhound as an example? Flame tanks were in fact used during WW2, in a limited capacity for sure, but again, actual historical precedent is set - my issue isn't so much the practicality / believe-ability of these things so far in the scientifically advanced future, but rather that typically most of the stuff they use as inspiration is from a grounded historical equivalent... which is why I just hate those ****ing wings so much, it just seems like the people designing these things should keep their creative ideas a little more grounded in the roots for which all other 40k stuff is inspired by.

As far as expanding the marines codex catalogue, yea, it does seem kinda trivial. Though for people who think that the marines should be toned back more and consolidated I have nothing in common. Your standard space marine army is the most boring set of rules and characters in the entire game in my opinion. The thing I always liked about BAs was that for such a powerful army you really had to know how to play them, b/c the rules created for their chapter do impose certain limits that don't make them as invincible as most marine armies seem. Same with the DAs and BTs - again, add some character, a few special rules, and a few limitations, and ok you have something that's fun to play with. Standardize it too much and (yawn) no thanks. Which is why I think they really could just come up with a simply "all-other chapters" codex for the remainder. They put so much effort into the fluff creating these vast histories and personalities and then don't have any way to play with them? It just makes me feel a little short-changed. And I'm not saying write a new one with all the fluff and all that jazz... just come up with a small thin thing that has a set of rules that really give these chapter some ****ing character in the game play. The "Chapter rules" section under each of the special characters in the 5th ed. marine codex is just not enough to really make any of them that different.

I just mean something like: Iron Hands, every officer is a Techmarine, and no Librarians. Raven Guard, Tactical Squads have infiltrator abilities, limit to 6-man squads if this rule applied. Shit like that, just something to make the gameplay interesting.

Also it's interesting that DAs / BTs are considered the most popular faction, it just always feels to me in my experience that one in every 3 goddamn 40k players is a BA player, maybe not exclusively, but they at one point collected a full BA force and play them as often as any of their other ones. I do agree though that both DA and BT are cooler (the original 10 year old fan in me who only thought BAs were cool recently died).

Anyways, interesting discussion so far.
 
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