Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was playing around in my bits boxes the other week when I found a Knight's torso amongst other Bretonnian bits (from quite a few years ago now).
So rather than work on my Ogres, I decided to convert up a Foot Knight. It's fairly easy really, Knight's torso, [email protected] command armoured legs, and that's the basics done, all that's needed is a head, arms/weapon and shield. Since I was in a bit of a creative mood I decided to see about a build for the guy. Unsatisfied with what I could come up with I made the choice to design my own Special Character.
After some consultation with Captain Sarathai on point costs and rules legitimacy, this is what I've got.



Boras Jerain of Gisereux
Boras Jerain of Gisoreux was born the third son of a very minor noble family, with little influence in the royal courts. A mere four generations has passed since Boras' great grandsire earned his knighthood and returned from King Charlen's Errantry War of the Border Princes, and granted lordship over an ancient fort in the shadow of the southernmost reaches of the Forest of Arden. Growing up a trebuchet's throw from the forest's edge, Boras and his brothers knew the dangers of the world well before they came of age, and learned the ways of war amongst it's verdant branches.
With few knights in residence and an excess of peasants to work the land and keep the forest at bay, the Jerain family depends largely upon these commoners to patrol and guard their demense.
It was beneath the towering columns of the forest that he learned the madness that is pitched battle, hunting down the small bands of foul beasts that frequently threaten his family's holdings.Although a great number of knights would find it abhorent, Boras is as comfortable fighting on foot as he is astride his charger, and has lead men-at-arms against the enemy like so. Although trained in the use of all knightly weapons, Boras has demonstrated a clear affinity for the axe, able to split a beastman from collarbone to kidney with one blow.


Code:
Name             Mv     WS     BS     St     To     Wo     In     At     Ld     Sv     Cost
[U]Boras Jerain[/U]      4      5      3      4      4      2      5      4      8     3+    140
Composition: Hero
Knight's Vow
Hand Weapon
Heavy Armour
Shield
The Splitter - Magic Weapon. Armour Piercing. In Close Combat, Boras Jerain may re-roll any dice rolls of 1 To Wound.
Staghorn Helm - +1 Armour Save. One use only; Counts as stubborn for the current combat, regardless of the number of game turns it lasts.
Virtue of Benevolence - Boras Jerain is fielded on foot. Peasants within 12" may use his Leadership, rather than normal 6" and may re-roll their first failed Leadership test.
Boras Jerain may be mounted on a Barded Bretonnian Warhorse for no additional cost, however he loses the Virtue of Benevolence and he may only join a unit of Knights Errant, which will automatically pass their first Impetuous roll.
Total Cost: 140
Boras Jerain may not be upgraded to the Battle Standard Bearer, but may be the Army General.
 

·
Drill Sergeant
Joined
·
10,215 Posts
Love these types of special characters. Ones that are interesting, have cool little rules and don't just rely on disgusting magic items to make them cool.

One thing that did confuse me though, is 'the splitter' the name of his hand weapon or is actually a magical weapon?
 

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Magical weapon. If it wasn't it couldn't be destroyed, which would be just a little bit broken...although it would suit the guy's background I guess.
I'll have to have a little more thought on it.
Either way, it won't affect his cost.
 

·
i am da Wahhchief
Joined
·
2,419 Posts
This character is really cool.

I have a few nice looking infantry characters and it makes me so sad that there's almost no way to deploy such guys.
I wonder if my friends are ok with custom characters...
 

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
The whole concept of Boras was to provide a bit of a secondary General for peasants since the army General is usually off gallivanting around on his horse.
He's a little bit General, a little bit BSB, and a good reason to actually include a horde of Men-at-arms; and he can do some damage without being too threatening.
When it comes down to it, his equipment is all in the Bretonnian book anyway, just not really.
The Splitter is a combination of Biting Blade and Cuirass of Fortune; Staghorn Helm is half Gromril Helm, half Crown of Command; Virtue of Benevolence is basically the same as VoEmpathy, but with a clause if he goes mounted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
815 Posts
That's a great job.

I have a couple custom special characters and I am always falling into the same old trap. I go and make him OP and abuse the magical item options. I try not to but it's like I have this mental block that doesn't allow me to do anything else. lol

You though have done a really nice job here, I like the back ground and the rules are interesting. How did you go about the points decision making? Was it:

- Item x normally costs n so ability x will cost n?
 

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It was something along those lines. Some things were easy, like his weapon, but others were a bit more "intuitive".
How do you price a single use Stubborn?
Does the cost of the Virtue actually equal the cost of a horse?
Is a re-roll on Leadership the same value as an automatic pass in those specific circumstances?

Basically I added up the costs of the Bretonnian versions of items, subtracted an amount for the lost abilities, and then rounded off to the nearest 10.
Then I asked the Captain for his thoughts and apparently I had it pretty spot on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
I like the theme and the idea for the character, so kudos to you!

However, I can't quite justify the points cost.

A sword of might basically does the same thing as the "splitter" gives you -1 to armour saves and +1 to wound (+1 strength) = 20 points
Virtue of Benevolence = virtue of empathy = 10 points
Staghorn helm, apart from the stubborn thing it gives you +1 armour which is the same as a dragonhelm = 10 points
His stats are the same as a regular paladin (apart from 4 attacks) at 60 points with a shield so 62 points total.

Total: 102 points

Apart from a single extra attack more and one round of stubborn he costs 38 points more than a regular paladin. Considering that a crown of command that gives you stubborn for every round of combat is 35 points I think he's overpriced, also if he's with peasants he's probably going to be steadfast anyways so stubborn might not be needed entirely. A virtue of empathy paladin is already way overpriced for what he does and I probably wouldn't pay more than 100 points for him. But to avoid him being overpowered I'd probably advice you to drop him down to 115 points, maybe 120 points or add another special rule that makes him more "special character" like and not just a virtue of empathy paladin with fancy named gear :) Hope you don't take the critique too harsh, but rather as a recommendation.

Best of luck with your custom character :)
 

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I just feel I should go through his item/rules costs.
The Splitter doesn't do the "same thing" as a sword of might. He's still only St4, what it does is the same thing as Biting Blade and Cuirass of Fortune - there's a big difference between +1 to wound and re-rolling 1's to wound. Those are 30 points total as is and take up 2 items.
Virtue of Benevolence is kind of the same as Empathy, but you get a re-roll on a failed Leadership (which is taken at LD8 ), or a free horse and an auto-pass on a Leadership test. That's worth more than just 10 points. Standing their ground against a charging "somthing big and scary" is a pretty big deal. Is that worth an extra 5 or 10 points?
Yes, I'll admit that the Staghorn is worth about the same as the Dragonhelm, but the one off stubborn can be used with any peasant, not just [email protected] ...even archers behind their stakes...So maybe worth an extra 5 or 10.
As for the extra attack he gets, if he was a unit champ, that'd be worth 10 points, if it was a magical weapon that'd be worth 20.
That's a total of somewhere between and extra 70 and 90 points of items and rules. Looking at it that way, he is somewhere in the range of a little overpriced to fairly underpriced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
This guy is awesome, I love the model, so simple and yet incredibly characterful looks like he could hold off an army if he were at a bridge, too bad he does not have a better armor save though, but that is too much to be hoped for haha, I am greedy for a 2+ save on foot :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
The thing is that +1 to wound is better than rerolling 1's to wound...
+1 strength is better than rerolling 1's to wound and armour piercing entirely

Against anything but T1 or T2 or T6+ targets a sword of might is straight out better. and that sword is = 20 points total. I wouldn't pay 30 points for a sword thats worse than that.

Sword of might versus toughness 3 = 2+ to wound (83,3% to wound)
Splitter versus toughness 3 = 3+ to wound with rerolls of 1's (77,7% to wound) - (that is worse than sword of might)
Sword of might versus tougness 4 = 3+ to wound (66,7% to wound)
Splitter versus toughness 4 = 4+ to wound with rerolls of 1's (58,3% to wound) - (also worse than sword of might)
Sword of might versus toughness 5 = 4+ to wound (50% to wound)
Splitter versus toughness 5 = 5+ to wound with rerolls of 1 (38,6% to wound)
Unless my math is completely off :)

The Battle standard bearer is free for bretonnia and that makes you reroll leadership tests anyways. I do see a point in having an additional "general / bsb" in your army for your peasants I can just say that for he does I wouldn't pay 140 points. But then again, it's your character and your idea so I wouldn't say it's wrong. I think it's better that you underpower him than overpower him as that seems to be the theme with custom characters. My recommendation is just to knock him down a few points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,252 Posts
Your mini conversion came out great!!! Also, well done on the story and the stats/skills, but I do agree w/ [MENTION=47774]Vezzax[/MENTION] that he may be slightly overpriced by 10-20 points.

I think I have the same bits lying around, so me thinks a friendly bit of 'copying' may be in store!
 

·
ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I doubt you have the axe lying around, it's not a GW bit. but Hordeobits.com do have them (but apparently not in stock right now). It's from Wargames Factory Orcs set.
 

·
i am da Wahhchief
Joined
·
2,419 Posts
i would say, hold off with making the character cheaper as it is. the price seems right to me, but maybe some playtesting shows it could go down by 10/20/ w/e

a comparison with the other items in our book is (IMO) a bit oversimplifying, a mistake often made by people that make custom characters. It's also something that makes it hard to create balanced armybooks.
One example, he doesn't take away the virtue of empathy, which means that doesn't doesn't double up for other empathy characters, which would fit an infantry theme.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top