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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
K the question came during a game i played this past saturday. At games workshop the maniger was telling me that i can take any wounds from being shot up all on the broodlord (up to 3) That way leaveing my doomstealers to do some damage the next turn. The rule book says...i believe, that each wound has to be taken on an individual model and not on a single model.... but it doesn't clearify that with indiviual characters with a retinue. Can i have my broodlord take the 3 wounds from shooting or do i have to spread them out over the retinue?
 

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If your Broodlord has the same save as the rest of the retinue and all of the saves on those 3 wounds have failed, then you can conceivably choose to kill off the Broodlord. If only one or two of those wounds got passed armour saves, then you'd have to remove Genestealers. If the Broodlord has a different save than the Genestealers, then the Genestealers would have to take wounds first.
 

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If the broodlord has differnt armour save then it is mixed armour rules comes into effect(pg76) .
If the broodlord has the same then it is normal like shooting a squad(pg26).
bonekrusher
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ostsol, thanks but where does it say i can take multiple wounds on my broodlord before removing any genestealers.. The 'normal rule' says wounds must be taken on diferent models.. The mixed armour rule says the majority armour takes wounds first. I play with guys that are all about "show me in the book"
 

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If your Broodlord has a different save from the Genstealers, then it certainly is impossible for it to take those three wounds. As you know, the Mixed Armour Rules require the models with the majority save to take wounds first.

However, if the Broodlord has the same save, you can apply the wounds where ever you want, so long as you keep applying wounds to a model until it dies. I do not think that there is a requirement to remove a maximum number of models. You simply cannot avoid removing models by applying wounds to several multiple-wound models. Usually this does result in a maximum number of models dying, but when there is only one multiple wound model, I think it is perfectly acceptable to kill it instead of single-wound models -- as long as it can take enough wounds to die, of course. If there aren't enough wounds to kill it, then the only choice is to remove single-wound models.

That's how I interpret it, at least. Normally one wouldn't want to remove a character in favour of other models, so that's why it usually doesn't happen.
 

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Actually it does matter because the broodlord has a differnt toughness from the genestealers.So the differnt toughness comes in effect pg41.
bonekrusher
 

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Toughness has no effect on where wounds may be allocated.
 

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No Rest For the Righteous
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A broodlord has a 3+ save if I remember right, so the Genestealers take wounds first, until each one has take a wound, then one happens on the Broodler, and the wounds wrap around again to the Genestealers. The Broodlord cannot take three wounds in a row to save genestealers due to the mixed armour rules.

Now suppose they had they same armour and toughness, then yes you could take three wounds in a row on the Broodlord, since the way it works is that as long as you are removing models where possible, the rule is satisfied. But it doesn't matter, they dont have the same save and are subject to mixed armour.
 

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This is a ugly question because the unit is mixed toughness and saves.

First assuming that you are applying wounds sustained in CC. In this case the Broodlord is an independent character. This means that he is treated as a second unit. Assuming he is in base contact. Your opponent must specifically declare how many attacks are going to be allocated to the Broodlord.

Second case applying wounds from ranged fire. Assume that your broodlord & five 'stealers take a "set" of 8 bolter hits and 2 heavy bolter hits. The 'stealers are the majority toughness for the brood. All wounds are rolled against toughness 4. Applying the "Mixed Armour" rules on page 75 of the MacRagge book. Every 'stealer must take a hit before one is applied to the Broodlord. The owning player has the option of applying a heavy bolter hit to the Broodlord. There are not enough hits to wrap a second time so the remaining hits applied to the stealers.


I don't know what dodgy advice the Store Manager was trying to feed you. Maybe he assumed they had the same toughness & save. Broodlords are independent characters NOT monstrous creatures.
 

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The 3+ save is an upgrade. It is possible for a Broodlord and his retinue to have the same save.
 

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Like I said, toughness has no effect on the matter. Since the majority toughness is 4, the Broodlord is wounded as if he had T4. It's quite clear even in the rulebook's example, where the Ork Slaver is wounded as if he had T2, which the Grots have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the answers.... i guess it really is a 'dodgy' subject considering most people don't want to kill off the independent character first. What i understand from the replys is as long as my broodlord has the same save as the genestealers i can allocate wounds to just the broodlord and only if the wounds add to the amount of the broodlord's death (3 wounds). Ex. broodlord and retinue take 5 lasgun wounds.....2 are saved on 4+ but 3 are failedt.... i can pull my broodlord.
 

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Orks_n_Bugs
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I agree with Ostsol, and so does the rule book.

As long as an IC has the same save as the squad he's with, and as long as shooting from one enemy squad causes more wounds than he has, he can be removed as a casualty in place of regular troops. The fact that they have different toughnesses has nothing to do with this.

So if you took 6 unsaved wounds from one squad shooting you could remove 3 stealers and the broodlord or 6 stealers
 

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No Rest For the Righteous
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I had a little free time and I was skimming the rulebook as I always do now and then (it's the only way to remember all these rules) and I came across something.

It seems we were wrong. pg 26 at the top right paragraph it says that wounds always strike different models and that one model can't claim to be taking all the hits. It makes alot more sense now that I think about it. How's one guy going to eat slugs for his whole unit? Maybe yell "shoot me"?
 

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That is pretty explicit, though it does seem to conflict with the rules for multiple-wound models.
 

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Ostsol said:
That is pretty explicit, though it does seem to conflict with the rules for multiple-wound models.
As I read the rules, It means that from an individual volley of attacks (one unit shooting you, or one unit attacking in CC, etc) you must allocate wounds one at a time to every model so they spread evenly, starting with the ones with majority armor save.

The additional restriction for multi-wound models, is that subsequent attacks against your injured unit must allocate those new rounds of wounds to the already injured models first, thus removing them from play as fast as possible rather then spreading the wounds all around.

For example if a unit of 3 Warriors takes a wound form Squad A's bolter fire, it can go on any of the warriors since none are injured and all have the same save. When Squad B then shoots at the Warriors and inflicts a wound, that wound must be given to the already wounded Warrior, removing him from play.

That the interpretation I use, anyway.

So you can't pile them all on the broodlord. In fact, since the single wound genestealers would be removed first, you probably need to allocate wounds to them before the broodlord can take any hits. Though that might be argued. It's a little muddier in units with mixed wound counts.
 

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Xardian said:
So you can't pile them all on the broodlord. In fact, since the single wound genestealers would be removed first, you probably need to allocate wounds to them before the broodlord can take any hits. Though that might be argued. It's a little muddier in units with mixed wound counts.
Why would the Genestealers have to be removed first? If the Genestealers and the Broodlord had different saves then it is true that the Mixed Armour Rules would require the Genestealers take the first hits, but if the saves are the same there is no such requirement as to which models take wounds first.
 

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No Rest For the Righteous
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Well the there are two requirements. Wounds have to be spread around and not piled onto one model, and models have to be removed where possible.

Thus, if there are failed wounds, the unit's members have to die because of the removing models where possible rules, and wounds can't be piled onto the character in order to satisfy those rules because of the first rule of distributing wounds.

If a torrent of fire happens (enough wounds for the entire unit, the opponent nominates a model to take a save) then it's possible the character could potentially take 1 wound and not be removed, and this would be the exception. Otherwise, all unsaved wounds have to be on his unit (due to the rules above).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
yeah i read that rule on pg26 before i even posted this thread.. the thing is i think the rule means ...ex. sqaud A shoots 5 bolter rounds into genestealer B.. i can't say..'ok all five wounds hit this one genestealer 5 times (he got mutilated) and the other genestealers didn't get touched' basically making sure no one ever thinks that can happen in a squad/brood etc... But there isn't a specific rule dealing with multi wound Individual chacters and thier retinue. If i suffer 3 wounds right off the bat to my BL brood...why can't i remove my 3 wounded BL. Everyone has the same save and the wounds are delt and a model is removed. I wish it was in black and white in the rule book somewhere.
 

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Ostsol said:
If your Broodlord has the same save as the rest of the retinue and all of the saves on those 3 wounds have failed, then you can conceivably choose to kill off the Broodlord. If only one or two of those wounds got passed armour saves, then you'd have to remove Genestealers. If the Broodlord has a different save than the Genestealers, then the Genestealers would have to take wounds first.
p 26, top right paragraph.... each wound hits a seperate model.

Further, you must remove as many models as possible, as per p 27.
 
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