[Cruor]

Hey people, I am planning to build a very competative (non zilla) nid army. The army will have quite some stealers I think and planning to use a good amount of raveners.
This army will be the first I will be realle tooling for real competative play. I have been around quite some tournaments now so know what to expect a bit what I can come up against. But still will need the help of you guys .
So I have come up with some things until now so advise is appriecieted.

HQ

Broodlord
-toxin sacs
-extended carapace
-implant attack (not a common upgrade but I think it will help to kill things like avatars and those nasty daemon princes)

6 genestealers
-extended carapace

ELITE

4 warriors
-enhanced senses (BS)
-devourers
-extended carapace
-rending claws

2 lictors

TROOPS

8 genestealers
-extended carapace
-scuttlers

8 genestealers
-extended carapace

8 genestealers
-extended carapace

14 spine gaunts

14 spine gaunts

10 spine gaunts

FAST ATTACK

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 zoanthropes
-warp blast, synaps

2 zoanthropes
-warp blast, synaps

total points: 1696

models in army: 85

 

[Overread]

HQ
Broodlord - if you leave off the extended carapace from the brood lord it means that the entire brood has the same armour save - this means that the brood lord cannot be singled out under different armour save rules

Elite:
Warriors: Good fire support base - though a little light for my liking. I would try and keep 4 warriors and find points for toxin sacs and a vennom cannon

Lictors: I trust that you know that these are your glass daggers

Troops:
Genestealers I don't like having only 1 group of stealers with scuttlers - it singles them out for enemy fire way too much. I f you are worried about hte brood lord, remember that he does not get fleet - so the rest of the broods will catch up (and sometimes overtake) him.

spinegaunts - good

Fast Attack = nice ravener heavy mob

Heavy support - check codex because you can only have one group of zoanthropes. This will knock down your anti armour which is what I would worry about in this army = zoans are great when they hit - its getting them to hit that is the problem! Consider taking one sniper fex in the army - or a sniper tyrant. If you are dead set of keeping the monsters out, then I would suggest 2 or more biovores with bio-acid mines - you need the anti tank

 

[paul_Harkonen]

A few things, the first and most important:

Your army is illegal. You only get one unit of zoans, so that will have to be changed.

The next thing is, I agree with overmind, slapping scuttle on one group of stealers just means they'll be the main target. You want your forces to all move as a wave, don't send them at the enemy piecemeal, he'll just mow them down one squad at a time. Drop scuttle on them, use the points from that and your zoans to put in a sniperfex. Your list has no way to drop skimmers (or to even slow them down at all). I know you don't want to zilla up, but you cannot be competitive without some way to take down those skimmers, and a fex is the best bet. If you absolutely refuse you're going to have to swap out ravs for bio-acid sporemines. I advise against biovores, mostly just because they're too expensive for too little bang. If you must take one, take three, that's the only way they even approach effective.

Looking over your warriors, consider swapping those claws for either talons (for cheaper points) or TLing the devourers, you'll thank me for it later, trust me. You don't want those bad boys in hand to hand, so why upgrade them for it? Oh, and Toxin sacs are a must, especially with devs.

Finally where are your flesh hooks? They're a measly one point a pop, and it enables you to go charging over the field and into cover without looking back. Nids are fairly fragile, so if you have to weather your enemy's attacks before you get to hit them, it's going to hurt. I would suggest dropping as many spine gaunts as it takes to fit flesh hooks into your army.

Other than that, looks pretty good to me.

 

[Cruor]

Thanks for the reply. Eactly what I was looking for . I am almost going to sleep and I am tired but I'll have made some changes. Keep giving comments, I only bought one unit of stealers. Because they are actually kinda mandatory

I did some cutting and carving. I think I did good following your advice but I am now down to less models. Don't know sure yet.. maybe I have to upgrade some things less expensive.

HQ

Broodlord
-toxin sacs
-extended carapace
-implant attack (not a common upgrade but I think it will help to kill things like avatars and those nasty daemon princes)
-flesh hooks

6 genestealers
-extended carapace
-flesh hooks

ELITE

4 warriors
-enhanced senses (BS)
-twin devourers
-extended carapace
-toxin sacs

1 lictor

TROOPS

8 genestealers
-extended carapace
-flesh hooks

8 genestealers
-extended carapace
-flesh hooks

8 genestealers
-extended carapace
-flesh hooks

14 spine gaunts

14 spine gaunts


FAST ATTACK

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

2 raveners
-redning claws & talons

HEAVY SUPPORT

3 zoanthropes
-warp blast, synaps

Carnifex
-enhanced senses
-barbed strangler
-venom cannon

total points: 1696

models in army: 85

 

[paul_Harkonen]

Now that is a nasty looking list. You have 74 models, and 89 wounds total. That's more than enough for a 1700 point list. You've got tons of rending goodness in those stealers, and they're going to be tough to take out with the carapace. You've got gaunts to tie up units and synapse to support the whole thing.

In terms of tactics I'm going to make two comments\suggestions. 1st, don't just bum rush the stealers, move them up slowly and from behind cover. 24 stealers on turn 4 is much much better than 12-15 on turn 3. The other thing is, you should experiment personally with EC stealers and scuttling stealers. Find out which morph works best for you and use it. I like EC, but some people swear by scuttle, both work well but pick the one that matches your playstyle.

 

[grimaldus53]

Very nice list, nice anti tank options and a solid web.

A couple of comments.

The Fex is going to die if it is just bare. I would try to put carapcae or chitin on it. Then again it may not be a huge target, but being the only big thing on the board especially being a tank popping one I would say it will take a lot of fire but you never know.

more guants!!! 1700 points you really need at least 2 squads of 18-20 gaunts. 14 I find tends to be very easily dipersed and the more gaunts the bigger and longer the hold up is. Fleshborers also make very nice addittions but it is up to you.

I don't particularly like ravners however they are effective just depends how you use them.
I would prehaps drop one squad for upgrades I suggested but again entirly up to you.

 

[Cruor]

thanks for the replies again, If I want more gaunts I could drop one squad of ravners and take another 16 spine gaunts.. But i don't know. And Raveners.. SHould I deepstrike em? or should I let them slither along as they are fast enough and likely can make a second turn assault move. But than again... They will be alone

 

[paul_Harkonen]

Personally, I don't think more gaunts is really a requirement. You have so many high threat units that more gaunts will likely be treated the same.

As for the ravs, the few times I've used them I've found walking (slithering) them to be most effective. Move them up behind some terrain and then jump out at anything nearby next turn. The dangers of deepstrike are many, most importantly you run the risk of losing them outright, or scattering out of assault range, both are bad. Secondly you run the risk of dropping them 3 inches in front of a squad of bolters who will light them up and likely kill them dead. And finally, you have no idea when they'll show up (this is partially mitigated by your lictor, but still an issue.) It's up to you, but I suggest you put them directly under your control from the get go.

 

[Willance]

My opponion on what i see works is get ther as fast as you can. Drop that last 10 guant broode and give scuttlers to every one, even the guants.

 

[Cruor]

Well today I have a long journy in the train so I am going to break my head over it At the nd of this day or tomorrow I will have an update.

I am also not sure yet what the best warrior iomorphs are. If someone got some input about warriors, because I don't really know.

Also 3 broods of gaunts around 15 should be good you think? If so I need to get my hands on all spinefists I can find, so I can put them also on hormagaunts

 

[paul_Harkonen]

Warrior biomorphs are actually fairly simple. There's three roles a warrior can fill and be effective (there's also a 4th but I feel it's largely a waste of points.)

1) Close combat: In this role the warrior needs rending claws, scything talons, adrenals and most importantly, leaping or winged (without the speed upgrade they're just too slow). Optional upgrades include extended carapace (I don't like it much as they still get ripped up by Heavy Bolters) toxin sacs and flesh hooks, just remember wings + EC == no no. Best in larger squads.

2) Infantry killer: These warriors are most similar to your list. They have devourers or TL devourers, enhanced senses and normally have toxin sacs. You can also choose to give them extended carapace (it's more useful on these boys as they're more likely to be in a stand-up firefight with bolter equivalents.) In this role you can also add a barbed strangler in order to try and pin your oponent, or a venom cannon if you want a bit more punch (I suggest just the devourers, cheaper and nastier in my opinion) Best in larger squads.

3) Finally there's the light vehicle killers: These puppies have senses, sacs deathspitters (must be twin linked) and a venom cannon. These bad boys will take a big bite out of anything AV 11 or lower (like most transports) and can do some damage to AV12. They again, can be given carapace, up to you. Best in squads no larger than 4.

The final role, which I advise against, is pure synaptic support. You basically bring these boys with just talons, make them as cheap as possible. I advise against this mostly because they can fill this role and one of the three others for relatively little points increase.

And that's paul's how to make warriors entry for today. You know, I really should write this up as an official tactica\build suggestion at some point

 

[Cruor]

Ok1 I think I got it basically.. I have so,e points left and I am thinking what to do with it.. But anyway here it comes.

HQ

Broodlord
-toxin sacs, carapace, implant attack, flesh hooks

6 stealers retinue
-carapace, flesh hooks

TROOPS

16 gaunts
-spine fists

16 gaunts
-spine fists

16 gaunts
-flesh borers
(I manage to trade some extra spine fists; but not enough.. So flesh borers are a good second option I think.. only 16 points more expensive for a unit and now they may look more like a threat so they draw away fire from so,ething else )

8 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

8 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

10 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

FAST ATTACK

2 raveners
-rending claws, scything talons

ravener
-rending claws, scything talons

ravener
-rending claws, scything talons

HEAVY SUPPORT

Carnifex
-enhanced senses, barbed strangler, venomcannon

3 zoanthropes
-warp blast, synaps


Know I have 164 points left and I am thinking about several options..

-2 lictors

-lictor + 2 raveners

-dakka warrior brood

-dakka tyrant

-dakka fex

I think warriors or tyrant are the best option as the give me more synaps control and I seem to be lacking some of it. I am leaning more toward the hive tyrant as he shoots with higher strength and has more close combat capability even though He will be geared for shooting.. There is one thing.. when there is a escalation mission warriors will be allowed to set up so that gives me synaps.. but monstrous creatures wont.. So only my brood lord will be on the table (which might be good.. as everything will go 2d6 forward if I play it well, but it will be risky)
Just some things I have to keep in mind I think.. Also... I might take a venom cannon with my hive tyrant.. I could use some extra anti armour.. especially againts lighter vehicles.

Thinking about this build.
tyrant
-venom cannon, TL devourers, toxin sacs, enhanced senses (basic gear.. So would tyrant guard or wings be better?)

with warriors I would go for TL devourers and maybe 1 venom cannon for some anti light vehicle.. which I seem to be lacking.. eventhough I have lots of CC rending.

But anyway I am not sure yet so that is why I am asking

 

[Cruor]

OK I think I figured it out This list shoulkd win quite some battles as long as I don't play stupid..

HQ

Tyrant
-enhanced senses (BS), toxin sacs, venom cannon, TL devourers
2 Tyrant guard

Broodlord
-toxin sacs, carapace, implant attack, flesh hooks

6 stealers retinue
-carapace, flesh hooks

TROOPS

16 gaunts
-spine fists

16 gaunts
-spine fists

16 gaunts
-flesh borers
(I manage to trade some extra spine fists; but not enough.. So flesh borers are a good second option I think.. only 16 points more expensive for a unit and now they may look more like a threat so they draw away fire from so,ething else )

8 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

8 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

8 genestealers
-carapace, flesh hooks

FAST ATTACK

ravener
-rending claws, scything talons

ravener
-rending claws, scything talons

ravener
-rending claws, scything talons

HEAVY SUPPORT

Carnifex
-enhanced senses, barbed strangler, venomcannon

3 zoanthropes
-warp blast, synaps