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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and so far it looks like a pretty stand up place. Anyhow, onto the topic. I've been working on an ork army for about a year now, I've played a few low point games and I'm begining to get my brother interested in wargaming. Having played games with him since he was knee high to a grot I know that he likes to play games deffencively. I also know that on action games, he likes to snipe or ride about in tanks. Clearly, this means he's going to play guard. He's also a huge history fanatic, and has a passion for soviet/siberian history (and a thing for epic beards/mustaches) this leads me to think that a Vostroyan force is right up his ally.

So, I'd like help putting together a 500-750 pt force that could hold up against my KOS ork list (Although IG shoulden't have much problem against orks I'd assume, I haven't played against them yet). I'd like the list to include at least one unit of snipers and one Leman Russ, but aside from that, I'm nearly clueless how to construct an IG list. (I haven't read the codex, as I plan to buy that with the rest of his christmas). The list itself doesen't have to follow the Vostroyan doctorines, I've read that they aren't that great.

Price isn't an issue, I know that it'll be an all metal army, and thus, reqiring a great ammount of non-metal money. I'll probably end up buying it in instalments as he paints.

Thanks for taking time to read my post, I hope you all have a wonderful holiday season.
 

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The *minimum* you'll need:

2 boxes of troops
1 chimera

This will let you make:
5 man Command Squad
25 man Platoon
10 man armored fist (in a chimera)
and it weighs in at 345 points (+gear which will probably bring it up closer to 375)



However, to really get a good start (which I assume you want to do) you should get:

3 boxes of troops
1 chimera
1 leman russ
1 box of heavy weapons
1 standard bearer
15 60mm bases

This will let you make:
5 man command squad with standard
heavy weapon team
35 man platoon
1 armored fist
1 leman russ (i'd go hull heavy bolter and heavy bolter sponsons)
and all 15 heavy weapons teams (model them so that there is a space for a 2nd person on the large base, but leave that empty to you can just put a normal guy on there and take it off later).

This will bump the points up to well over 750 and give him a very solid core army :)
 

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Lets make this simpler: Get the Cadian Battleforce, a box of infantry, a chimera, an officer pack, and some extra 60mm bases (or cut plasticard to 60mm to serve as bases). If you really wanna go all out, buy two Cadian Battleforces instead of one!
It'll give you TONS of options! Also, remember, you don't need to use the support for the rocket launcher guys; you can just save that for the mortars!
But just staring out, for sure you're going to want to get a Battleforce and an extra box of infantry.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Okay, so cadians seem to be the popular choice, which I can understand. However, I really think he'll like the Vostroyan models (And perhaps even the valhallian models) and I am willing to pay for them. I'd assume that one could use the cadians as the bulk of the force and use the metal Vostroyans as the HQ, Elite, Officers, etc (Plus, the cadians are plastic, I could easily convert them to look a bit more "Russian". I also didn't see any mention of snipers, are they not worth their points at this level of the game, or simply not a strategetic choice paired with tanks?

I also just read the article on Commisioners on the GW website, and I love the fluff behind it (as I think he would), are they worth having around at all? I can see him laughing with glee as his comissioner slays the weak in the squad, it also fits well into the soviet theme I'd like to go with.

Lastly, thanks for the replies
 

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Ratlings are pretty good as far as snipers go, but their models are... different. Some like em some hate them. Think hobbits with sniper rifles. You could just use normal Guard sniper models and use them as ratlings, i do that and no one has had any problems. But that is the only way i'd use snipers, normal guard snipers suck.


Commissars are over priced :( Yes they're cool and very fluffy. But still, they're very overpriced. Hopefully that will be solved with the new codex (whenever that comes out).
 

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You could also make your own snipers, by using various methods. You'll want to extend the las-barrel, and you'll want to add a scope (I used a set of binos cut in half), and you could use either a regular infantry model, or like I did, used spare parts to build up a bunch of laying down snipers in guille suits.
As for the suggestion of Cadians: They're common, cheaper, and whatnot. If Amrageddon came in plastic, I'd get them. If you want to pay for the Vostroyans, you can find some sets with a nice number of 'em.
 

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Okay, so cadians seem to be the popular choice, which I can understand. However, I really think he'll like the Vostroyan models (And perhaps even the valhallian models) and I am willing to pay for them. I'd assume that one could use the cadians as the bulk of the force and use the metal Vostroyans as the HQ, Elite, Officers, etc (Plus, the cadians are plastic, I could easily convert them to look a bit more "Russian". I also didn't see any mention of snipers, are they not worth their points at this level of the game, or simply not a strategetic choice paired with tanks?

I also just read the article on Commisioners on the GW website, and I love the fluff behind it (as I think he would), are they worth having around at all? I can see him laughing with glee as his comissioner slays the weak in the squad, it also fits well into the soviet theme I'd like to go with.

Lastly, thanks for the replies
Valhallans do go for less on ebay, but really, they're just not as cool.

Sniper guardsmen are truly awfull. with special weapons you can get a mighty 3 for 65 points. On a BS3 guardsmen. Or, pay 80 points to have one in a infantry squad (no other upgrades)

There are rumours of snipers being back as useable when they re-vamp the dex in (approx april), but I haven't seen a snippet of solid evidence to support that, and personally think it's wishfull thinking by others.

Guard work best with numbers and tanks. I do heartily reccomend against metal models, as plastics are so much cheaper (for the "numbers" bit, my 1500 point list is between 60models when going tank heavy, to 120 including expensive options for the infantry. (bassies don't count as tanks when doing all infantry, but that depends on terrain.).

Another important point is carrying the heavy things about, and how easily they chip.

and surely giving him a army he can convert easier (and that come with parts!) is better.

I'd say go cadians unless you're super rich.
 

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I have an all metal army and I love it. I don't have a problem with chipping either. But then, I'm careful. I don't think I'm overly careful, just normally so.
 

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You could pick up a pair of Vostroyan Snipers. I've got straight Cadian army but have a couple of Vostroyan Snipers thrown in there to make things interesting. Personally the look of the Vostroyan Snipers was my choice over the Ratlings or converting my own.

If you check out Ebay you might still be able to find a box or 2 of the Vostroyan Starter Set that came out when they first introduced the Vostroyan models (comes with a few casualty guys holding their guts in their hands...that alone is worth the buy)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Okay guys, I think I have a pretty good idea of where to go. Here's what I plan on getting.

2 boxes of cadians
Enough Vostroyan Models to make a 10 man armored fist squad
Vostroan Command Squad
a few Vostroyan Officers (Which models would be recommended, I love the power fist models if they're worth getting)
2 vostroyan snipers and 3 vostroyan troops (I'll convert them so they look more snipery, would 5 be too much for a squad if I field them as ratlings?)
1 Chimera
 

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Id suggest going with the Vostroyan models as command models and the cadians as normal troopers. If its his first army I guess he will be buying some stuff himself at some stageand may be scared off at the cost of an all metal army starting out. Awesome present to be giving him.

Powerfists always come in handy but my advice on arming guard officers may not be the best.
 

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You're going to want and need some sort of heavy weaponry in there.
ANd personally, I'd have no problem with someone running another model as ratlings. I *hate* ratlings.
 

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Insomniac, for what it's worth, I think you're going the right direction. That's pretty much how I started out. I bought what would get me by, with a squad or two of what I really wanted. Then, after a while, I figured out what I really wanted. The ones I wanted I had a start on, and the ones I didn't want allowed me to hone my painting.

I say execute your plan. Don't listen too hardly to the sniper naysayers, because the IG rules are going to change soon. The snipers might end up being worth it.
 

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If you plan on winning tournaments then Comissiars should not be your first choice

If your brother plans to just play you and your friends then Comissiars are GREAT fun. My comissiars have become running jokes with my gaming group. They are awesome looking models (i painted mine like a pirate, yarrg) and have very fun rules, they are semi useful on the battle field.

So dont worry about the comissars price, the fun he adds to the game usually makes up for the extra points he does not make back :act-up:
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
You've all been great help so far. I've got a copy of the codex and taken a shot at making a final list. I even sat down with my brother and asked him how he wanted his army to play (so he now knows what he's getting for Christmas, he just doesn't know he's getting vostroyans). He's played a few games already with the space marines from the AOBR pack and he likes to deny enemy objectives rather than capture them, so I tried to make the list reflect that. It's built for 1500, that's what I play with my ork KOS. I think everything is in order rule wise, but it is my first 'shooty' list, so don't expect much. The Independent Commissars are a last minute change, so I haven't calculated the point's difference. It's meant more to be entertaining to play than to be tourney winning (my list is the same way Shock attack guns are far to fun to pass up : P)

Doctrines:
Iron Discipline
Sharp Shooters
Cameoloine
Ratling sqads
Independent Commissars

HQ - 297
Command Squad - Camel, Sharpshooters
-HSO - IronD, BoltP, Pwr Fst
--Guardsmen x 2 - Master Vox, Grenade Launcher
---Starndard Bearer x 1
---Medic x 1
Mortar Squad - Morter x 3
Commissar - BoltP/PW

Elite - 110
-Ratling Squad
--Snipers x 5
-Ratling Sqad
--Snipers x 5

Troops - 924
Armored Fist - Vox, Camel Sharpshooters, Grenade Launcher
-Vet Sergent - PlasP/CCW, Bionic
-Commissar - PF BoltP
-Chimera - ExtraA, Smoke, TrackG, Hflamer Turret, Hflamer Hull

Infantry Platoon A - Carmel, Sharpshooters
-Command Squad
--JO - IronD, PW, BoltP
--Guardsmen x4 - Vox, Grenade Launcher, Missle Launcher
-Infantry Squad - Vox, Flamer, HBolt
-Infantry Squad - Vox, Melta, LasC

Infantry Platoon B - Camel, Sharpshooters
-Command Squad
--JO - IronD, PW, BoltP
--Guardsmen x 4 - Vox, PlasG Auto Cannon
-Infantry Squad - Vox, PlasG, Auto Cannon
-Infantry Squad - Vox, PlasG, Auto Cannon

Heavy Support - 143
-Basilisk -Indirect Fire, Extra Armor, TrackG, Smoke
 

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Ratlings are a 0-1 unit so you may not take 2 squads of 5, 1 of 10 is fine though. The chimera can only firer 1 weapon on the move so the second heavy flamer would be better as a hull heavy bolter, or turret multi laser. The vox network is a waste of points, you might want to try and start your brother out with a more compedative list because i've seen new players get completely owned and quit before they learn how to use their army. Also since Vostroyan models are so expensive you might want to take a few more tanks to keep the cost of buying the army low.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm planning on getting cadians as the bulk of the army and using vostroyans as the officers, sergents, special weapons, etc to keep the cost down. I'll chop out the vox network, move the ratlings to one squad and see if I can squeeze in a demolosher.
 

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get him a gift certificate for when they release the plastic Valkyrie model.. that will be on every guard players wishlish
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yea, I've been looking at the new IG rumors, I'm considering waiting on the new codex and the possible plastic death corps of kreig models for his IG army and just fleshing out my small ultramarine force for him to play until then.
 
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