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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,
Ive come here seeking the advice of you veteran Ravenwing players,and just players who know a little bit about Ravenwing.Or just anyone who could give me any advice at all.

My question to you guys is can a Ravenwing army work in a 1000 points,and if so what would be the best way to run them.
I really did want to go to 1500 points with them and field 10 speeders but for a 15yr old buying that many speeders is a hell
of a lot of money!
OR i could take them up to 1500 points but have around 6 speeders,but anyway ill think about that later.

So can they work in a 1000 points and what would be the best way to field them?
This is my rough idea on my 1000 points,as i said only rough:

A master on a bike
He will probably have artificer armour so he can boost up with a 2+ and then hopefully assault next turn.I might give him
sword of secrets,very unsure though as it is a lot of points and instead i could get an additional biker.

Ravenwing Bike Squad
4 bikers
2 meltaguns
veteran sergeant with a powerfist and bolt pistol

Ravenwing Bike Squad
5 bikers
2 meltaguns
veteran sergeant with a powerfist and bolt pistol

Attack bike
multi-melta

Attack Bike
multi-melta

Land Speeder Tornado
HB & AC

Land Speeder Tornado
HB & AC

Land Speeder Tornado
HB & AC

I don't know exactly how many points that will come to,probably a little over a 1000,depends on how much i kit out the master.I may move one of the attack bikes up into my 5 man bike squad which will be cheaper and will make the squad more versatile and stronger.

The problem is that this army is so small and focused fire power,even if you do your best to make good use of cover i think
it will still be very hard to manage.

Any changes or advice to make a effective 1000 points will be greatly appreciated.
But i really want to feild a Ravenwing army,OR if i cant then a Be Swift As The Wind trait army,but i dont have any ideas on what i will
do there.

Also GrimReaper(right name?? lol)im interested to your thoughts on this if your reading it.Unlike Brynn how is a firm believer of Ravenwing being a speeder with bike support
army you tend to think the opposite.I respect and like both of your style.I do want to max speeders BUT i just cant bring myself to spending over a $1000 dollars for just a 1500 point army!
Please guys i need your help here,gotta make this army work somehow!

Thanks a lot to anyone who takes the time to reply,appreciate it.

Cheers,
Tycho
 

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Ghost of LO
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well, its about 350 dollars for 10 landspeeders, little more due to the master being more expensive.

I think it will be a harder fight for you at a 1000 points, then 1500, because players tend to take more conserative units IE they leave out heavy tanks, and such, which ravenwing can easly kill. The problem is if they out number you 3, or 4 to one, without the all mightly, 40 rending shots, and 30 heavy bolter shots, it might be tough to even those numbers out.

However, the ravensword would be a weapon of devistating power, since you could zip up to a squad with a lascannon, or veteran sgt wielding a powersword, and kill him pretty easy. Id leave the more expensive sword of serects at home.

Although, im woundering how does this sword compare to the master on speeders sword, i have the old DA codex, i basically know all the DA codex stuff, but somethings, like the if there is the same strenth bonus to that sword or not.

3 landspeeders is also pretty good firepower.

The only thing i dont like in the list is the attack bikes. You wont be seeing that many tank in 1000 points, i think your regular bikes or skimmers could handel any tanks you see. Infact, i think the more tanks they have, the better youll do, unless they can skim, even then you can really earn you points fast with meta weapons against tanks.

You might try giving the bikes heavy bolters and putting them in your normal squad, and maybe adding in that last bike on the top squad. Good luck
 

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I would drop all the melta´s since you won´t see any heavily armoured tank on the battlefield and if they do it will only be one and that can be very easily killed by your landspeeders. I would give the attack bikes just the normal HB and the normal ones power weapons. I don´t know how much points you save but if you do you can add either an extra bike squad or a single landspeeder.
 

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I think u should just dump the meltas and get an attack bike or two. Attack bikes are so cool, they provide a very hard hit for the pre-assault shooting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
well, its about 350 dollars for 10 landspeeders, little more due to the master being more expensive.

I think it will be a harder fight for you at a 1000 points, then 1500, because players tend to take more conserative units IE they leave out heavy tanks, and such, which ravenwing can easly kill. The problem is if they out number you 3, or 4 to one, without the all mightly, 40 rending shots, and 30 heavy bolter shots, it might be tough to even those numbers out.

However, the ravensword would be a weapon of devistating power, since you could zip up to a squad with a lascannon, or veteran sgt wielding a powersword, and kill him pretty easy. Id leave the more expensive sword of serects at home.

Although, im woundering how does this sword compare to the master on speeders sword, i have the old DA codex, i basically know all the DA codex stuff, but somethings, like the if there is the same strenth bonus to that sword or not.

3 landspeeders is also pretty good firepower.

The only thing i dont like in the list is the attack bikes. You wont be seeing that many tank in 1000 points, i think your regular bikes or skimmers could handel any tanks you see. Infact, i think the more tanks they have, the better youll do, unless they can skim, even then you can really earn you points fast with meta weapons against tanks.

You might try giving the bikes heavy bolters and putting them in your normal squad, and maybe adding in that last bike on the top squad. Good luck
Well I'm talking Australian dollars here you know....
And Ive already spent about $400 AUS dollars on them.

Yeah the Ravensword might play a very important role in such small games taking out the big bang things in each unit such as powerfists,lascannons etc.
And yes i will definitely not bother with the Sword of secrets,way too expensive and the points are way better spent else where.

3 Landspeeders is pretty decent firepower yeah but they are so fragile and will be heavily targeted and once there gone things will be difficult.So im going to have to be vitally careful there in trying to keep them alive as long as i can while still maintaining the use of their firepower..hmmm might be tricky...

Well with the attack bikes I'm sort of in two minds.
If i put them in the bike squads and arm them with heavy bolters then yes it does much the squad more versatile i know.You say that my normal bikes can take care of enemy armour just fine with their meltaguns right,well yes i know but its kind of a waste when i send that whole unit up and take out a tank and then im left out in the open to get blasted away or assaulted.When instead i could use the bikers damage to greater effect if i go after something that i can hurt alot more.Im not really explaining myself that well,its sort of hard to get what i mean across.

@chickenpowder-
Hmmm i dont think that will be happening.If i drop all the meltas then how am i going to deal with high toughness things like demon princes.Heavy Bolters wont be able to cut it there.And i want a squad that has some versatility to it.

Anymore advice guys?

Cheers,
Tycho

PS.Thanks to those who have replied so far,appreciate it!
 

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Tycho said:
@chickenpowder-
Hmmm i dont think that will be happening.If i drop all the meltas then how am i going to deal with high toughness things like demon princes.Heavy Bolters wont be able to cut it there.And i want a squad that has some versatility to it.

Anymore advice guys?

Cheers,
Tycho

PS.Thanks to those who have replied so far,appreciate it!
Only Ravenwing can still use the Multi-Melta/Assault Cannon combo. Best of both worlds. Then drop the meltas from the regular bikes, if you want something take plasma. I believe Attack Bikes still get a 2+ save in 4th Ed. rules so they would be better suited to take on the high Tougness beasties. They can keep the multi-melta if they will be going against the beasties otherwise drop them for Heavy Bolters and leave the heavy armour/toughness to the Land Speeders.

Is there a particular reason that the attack bikes are seperate? If you had a third Attack Bike I'd say lump them in a squadron for when you have a game with VP's. They only get half points for destroying two/thirds of the bike squadron.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Grand Master Belial said:
Only Ravenwing can still use the Multi-Melta/Assault Cannon combo. Best of both worlds. Then drop the meltas from the regular bikes, if you want something take plasma. I believe Attack Bikes still get a 2+ save in 4th Ed. rules so they would be better suited to take on the high Tougness beasties. They can keep the multi-melta if they will be going against the beasties otherwise drop them for Heavy Bolters and leave the heavy armour/toughness to the Land Speeders.

Is there a particular reason that the attack bikes are seperate? If you had a third Attack Bike I'd say lump them in a squadron for when you have a game with VP's. They only get half points for destroying two/thirds of the bike squadron.
Hmmm i think the speeders are better suited to take on infantry and leave the bikes to eliminate enemy armour.

The attack bikes are seperate due to the reason that they can turbo boost 24 inches and then have a 2+ invulnerable save.Then next turn ill move and probably be within half range of the multi-melta and then pop the tank.

Having all my attack bikes in a squadron i dont like.They are better working independantly because then they can go after different targets if they wish.
I dont think ill be putting in another attack bike,i just cant find the points to squeeze another in.

Cheers,
Tycho
 

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Ok,ravenwing are fun,but they can be hard as hell to master like Ive I always said before.In every army,its all about balanced so the only way to balanced Ravenwing is Bikes,plus its more safer and more harder for them to kill you.Ravenwing has speed,therfore majority of army's cant handle speed take advantage of that.

Ravenwing Massive Fire does not lie in the Land Speeders,if you rely on them and get shot down=you lost game.When you can lose a couple bikes,and still be in the game.With 2,000 point RW army-I have 20 bikes with 5 Melta guns,2 plasma guns,and 1 flamer.Then I have 8 Attack bikes,and 5 Land Speeders,and a Master of course.

With Ravenwing of 1,000 points do Bikes,no Land Speeders if you have points bring a couple,dont let Assualt Cannon with Rending get to your head before doing the whole aspect of the game.

With a balanced RW army,get at least 6-9 or more attack bikes with 2,000 points they tend to do more damage than Land Speeders in the end.Well for one even chaos agreed that players focus more of their shots on the Land Speeders than the bikes.Well the reason Land Speeders stick out more,they know their easy to bring down,and can be major threat so when he does get rid of them and land speeders did their damage he has another round with the bikes,and their already killing parts of his army with ease.

Where I play at,they played me so much,they just ignore my land speeders and try to go after my Attack bikes,then by ignoring the Speeders they chew through his army like it was nothing.

There is a Ravenwing law,you should always keep in your mind STAY TOGETHER ALWAYS!
When you split or divide Ravenwing,they lose their support and firepower which they need more than anything,while playing.

You are right Attack bikes are better independantly,because it gives you more options during the game.When you put in a sqaud,their more of a meat shield than doing its works.Then when you want to shoot something you can't cuz their with the sqaud.
I had trouble with tau,for a while until I got bikes turbo boost in their face and they start worrying,then they become frustrated and do mistakes,I just love doing that.

The only army Im having trouble with now is Grey Knights, with their psy cannons and their shrouding.I can't turbo boost,cuz I dont get no save whats so ever,and their shrounding to cut down my range of firepower which I really need,seems like their just designed to kill ravenwing.Ravenwing also has trouble with assualt but that seems my only option,by assualting his army one part at a time.

With your 1,000 Point Ravenwing list,ditch the Speeders they are very big liability in your army than a profit.Im doing a campaign where I have to capture terroritory,and invade opponents capitals,try playing with 400-500 points of ravenwing against some other army.Well with 1,000 points or below get all bikes,beyond 1,000 points get land speeders.The price your spending on land speeders which is 350 dollars.I got my whole Ravenwing army around 250-300 dollars,well I was cheap and went on ebay :p
 

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Ghost of LO
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I assuming youve already desided to take the ravensword, which i think is an excellent choice.

I dont have time to read grims post, the computer crashed on me before, so im simply responding to what ive said before...

Id take another landspeeder tornado, 1 multi melta attack bike, instead of 2.

4 land speeders can take out on average, 6-7 space marines a turn. This is basically perfect for 1000 points, as cutting through 3 plus saves is important.

Keep 1 melta gun bike will allow you to take out tanks on turn 1 is a lot of casses:

Against none horde armies: Boost up with your troops/hq. Move the attack bike up 12" any tanks with AV 13/14 deployed or moved up 12 inches during the game, are easily penetrated by the multi melta. Anything with AV12 can easily be penatrated from over 12 inches away.

Your bikes can absorb a tremedus amount of firepower, however they are not invincable, everything 3 saves your asked to take, 1 will fail. The landspeeders must support them. Removing a squad of space marines that would normally be able to rapid fire at them, is a huge asset, especially since your standard power game list suggests making your squads 6 marines strong.

Thats quiet a bit of firepower removed, stopping a tank (hopefully killing it) And a tactical squad gone, will allow your bikes to remain in numourus and able to launch devistating shooting/assault combo, espeically with the raven sword, removing any powerfists, or a lascannon from some other squad, and then charging ect.

Very effective combo.

Good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Grim and Forge for posting you guys have helped me alot,cheers.

Grimreaper-
Wow what a post you did,much helpful and informative advice given.Ok my feedback on what you said.

You say in a 1000 points to go all bikes but then you say just take a couple.How many do you think i should take then and with what,im assuming a tornado with HB and AC would be best?

Getting 6-9 more attack bikes.Yeah i definitely will if i ever get to 2000 points,but for a 1000 2 will be fine and for 1500 between 2-5 will be nice to have i think.

The Ravenwing law about sticking together i tend to sometimes disagree with.Say for example there is an isolated tactical squad right i think it would be better to send the speeders to take care of it and wipe them out providing that they are out of range of the rest of the opponents army.I think your bikes should stick together (apart from attack bikes in cases of independent tank hunting) but the speeders should sometime drift away and shoot so they are in less danger,because if they are going to go up with the bikes they will be in more danger.

Ditch all of my speeders you say? Well if so then what do you suggest i replace them with.
I have this so far (without the speeders)

Master of Ravenwing on Bike
probably just give him a power weapon.Maybe artificer armour if he is going to go independently might give him the Ravensword,might come in handy.

Ravenwing Bike Squad
4 bikers
2 meltaguns
veteran sergeant with a powerfist and bolt pistol

Ravenwing Bike Squad
5 bikers
2 meltaguns
veteran sergeant with a powerfist and bolt pistol
attack bike heavy bolter

That will probably come to around 600-650.So what else should i get with the remaining points.Another bike squad? Some attack bikes?



Forge-

I took one of the multi-melta attack bikes and instead gave one of the squads a attack bike with heavy bolter.Its cheaper than the speeder and tougher.It will take out more in the long run,seeing as the speeder will probably get destroyed and will only get to for one or two rounds.

But cant the bike squad support each other.Must they need speeders? I realise that they speeders let out tremendous firepower but they are just so fragile,thats the thing i'm worried about.They will be able to safely destroy about one tactical squad but then they are out in the open and the rest of my opponents army will be free to annihilate them. So im not sure.

Anymore advice guys,you have been great so far and i am extremely grateful for you efforts.

Cheers,
Tycho
 

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Ghost of LO
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Landspeeders are harder to kill then they appear, if played with properly.

A unit which moves 24 inches NEVER should be shot at, untill the user if ready to be shot at.

Without the use of landspeeders, ravenwing are overpriced. And as such your better off with trait marines.

If you go an all bike army, your plan is to assault. This is because you wont have suffecent squad removail capabilities.

Example 5 man bikes squad, with an attached attack bike:

8 shots, 7 hits, with bolters. Against marines this is 4 wounds. You cause 1 kill. Heavy bolter, hits twice, and scores 2 wounds. Melta weapons shoots, and cause 1 more wound, with no save.

1 dead from melta + 2 from other weapons.

3 dead marines from a 6 man tactical squads, which you opt not to charge, will slaughter you:

(standard power gamer tactical squad 1 lascannons 1 plasma 4 bolters)

1 rapid firing bolter + 1 rapid firing plasma gun, +lascannons

66% chance that a lascannon will kill a bike. 1 hit scored from plasma gun, 1 hit from bolters.

2 dead bikes from plasma/lascannnon.

Thats 80 points (and most likley there will be other stuff that can shoot you) You only killed 45 points from this tactical squad.

While, you will kill them next turn, your almost at 50% as it is. 2 more dead and this unit cant score.

The lesson here is, with an all bike army, you cant shoot, unless you can also charge, execpt when you can be absoultly sure you can eliminate the heavy weapons. Which bikes dont really have the firepower to do.

This is why landspeeders are so effective. Bikes will draw attention, while the landspeeders to damage. 4 LST remove 1 tactical squad a turn.

Allowing your bikes to strike more agresivly, without needing to charge in the turns when they dont turbo boost.

However, if you set on all bikes, again trait marines are cheaper. You lose the 6+ save, but math wise, its more cost effective to go with trait marines:

Every 6 bikes killed 1 will be saved. Thats 40 points that was saved.

Bikes with all but this ability are 6 points less. For every 6 bikes your purchase with ravenwing, you get a free one with trait marines.

Im not sure if you understand what im saying but heres what it does:

Basically you get more wounds, and more offense for the same price, and same game effect. That is: youll get a bonus turn or so, of having extra shots untill you lose a model. While with ravenwing, you dont get a turn or so with an extra pair of weapons.

Man im explaining this really badly. I hope you get what im saying.

Anyway, then you could have a chaplain lead this army, and hes better then being able to pick out a model to kill.


Peace.
 

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I don't think you should drop all of your land speeders - as grim pointed out, they do draw alot of fire. So, if you had a couple on your flank to soak up some of the heavier fire, that could work. maybe not.

Just remember, that TL-bolters aren't that good of weapons, you really need melta guns on your basic bikes sometimes, to take out tough stuff. I don't like plasma guns on the bikes, because that takes out the bike if you misfire. That is alot more than a single space marine.


Also, I havbe a few questions:

IN the codex, it says that attack bikes only have a 3+ save. WHy are you guys giving it a 2+?
Also, are you sure that only RW can have the Asscan/multi-melta combo on their speeders?
 

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Tomb King
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At 1000 points I think trait marines gets you a better list.
Chaplain on Bike
4 Bikes + Vet Sgt w PF, Furious Charge attached to Chaplain
4 Bikes (1 melta) + Vet Sgt w PW, Furious Charge + Attack Bike w HB
4 Bikes (1 melta) + Vet Sgt w Auspex, Tank Hunter + Attack Bike w HB
5 Scouts w HB
5 Scouts w HB
(or sacrifice 1 squad of bikes for your 3 speeders)

you get the same number of bikes you could fit into a Ravenwing army plus 10 scouts (and 2 HB). Scaling up to 1500 points makes Ravenwing more viable.
 

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Ghost of LO
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You need only make 5 man bike squads to count them as troops with trait marines. Id stronly recommend you go with an army more like this:

Chaplain bp, frags, bike, termi honours, 2 wounds.
4 bikes, 2x melta guns, 1 sgt Powerfist
furious charge

5 bikes 2x melta guns, 1 sgt powefist.
Skilled riders.


5 bikes 2x melta guns, 1 sgt powefist.
Skilled riders.

Attack bike, multi melta.

This list is way less strong then what ravenwing can do, but its much more assault orented..

I dont know the pointson this stuff, but id guess thats around 1000.
 

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Jhagadurn said:
IN the codex, it says that attack bikes only have a 3+ save. WHy are you guys giving it a 2+?
Because in the DA codex, our attack bikes have a 2+ save and 1 wound. Since we take our units from those entries, they still have those stats.

Jhagadurn said:
Also, are you sure that only RW can have the Asscan/multi-melta combo on their speeders?
Yes, this is not an option in the normal space marine codex anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ah Chaosbrynn! I got all excited think that id get some really good advice from you answering some of the questions in my post,but you didnt:(
Nah thats ok i know your a busy man...

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Chaplain bp, frags, bike, termi honours, 2 wounds.
4 bikes, 2x melta guns, 1 sgt Powerfist
furious charge

5 bikes 2x melta guns, 1 sgt powefist.
Skilled riders.


5 bikes 2x melta guns, 1 sgt powefist.
Skilled riders.

Attack bike, multi melta.
Actually your wrong.The list is short of a 1000,which is great.I can get 2 LST's with the remaining points,but then i will have to drop the attack bike to a heavy bolter one,which is OK seeing as the bikers can take care of armour themselves.

For a 1000 points i will just paint them up like Ravenwing but use them as a Be swift as the wind army.And then when i eventually get to 1500 i will use them as Ravenwing.

Cheers,
Tycho
 

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You guys might disagree with me,but have you actually played ravenwing army in practice with bikes?and not spam them with land speeders.You guys are over estimating bikes,really their 40 points not looking of the whole aspect of what they are capable of.Ok they might be expensive but trait bikes dont have a 6+ Invulable save,and dont have skill rider ability that makes them reroll faild difficult terrian test,and your taking these abilities granted?,and not putting them into practice.

You don't need Land Speeders in order to win,yes I agree they draw alot of fire power,they can blow things apart send everything to hell.Thing is you are relying on armour 10 to win you the game,its like saying your on aluminum amour tanks can kill everything in its path even when it gets hit by a missle.Ask yourself what if the battle field dont have hardly any terrian except 25% that isnt alot.What if you dont get first turn and the opponent has ordance?boom you dont get your glancing hit & 6+ invul kiss your land speeders good bye,still needs a 5-6 to damage you,unless he gets direct hit.

In order to prove my point,say tyco has three land speeders in his 1k point ravenwing army,deploy everything as normally when the game starts remove your three land speeders and ask yourself what can you rely on now in order to win the game ;)

My point is,dont rely on one thing in order to win the game,thats basicly telling the opponent what to go after in order to defeat you.With 550 points I gotta face next weekend against 600 points of orks,he hasent defeated me once on open field.I havent used one land speeder in this 3 week campaign im playing yet.


The Ravenwing law about sticking together i tend to sometimes disagree with.Say for example there is an isolated tactical squad right i think it would be better to send the speeders to take care of it and wipe them out providing that they are out of range of the rest of the opponents army.I think your bikes should stick together (apart from attack bikes in cases of independent tank hunting) but the speeders should sometime drift away and shoot so they are in less danger,because if they are going to go up with the bikes they will be in more danger.
You may disagree with me in words,but you can flank the enemy with land speeders,but that dosent mean that your speeders have to seperate from the whole army to just kill something.What I mean stay together is the whole army supports each other from any incoming attack or wherever they go.So if you wanted to kill that isolated tactical sqaud right,ask yourself do you have go out of your way to kill that sqaud?So if you go kill that tactical sqaud,can those land speeders get back to protect the rear,front or whatever is attack is coming in time.

The way I think of this law,think like a group of guys with guns(ravenwing)traped in this dark underground building(battle field),with mosters crawling(opponents army) everywhere.A surprise attack can happen anywhere.You think departing a group member off to go into darkness to handle a surprise attack or monster by himself?no so when the guys stick together they can prapare for the incoming attack or totally destroy the monster by just sticking together.By seperating ravenwing to handle something is like telling a Imperial guardsmen to go kill a terminator,Imperial guard only kill when they stick together in numbers.Ravenwing is the only possible army I can think of that can actually like take out like 3/4 of a army in one turn,but that's only when ravenwing are together not divided into 2 or 4 sections on the board.

When you split or divide Ravenwing,they lose their support and firepower which they need more than anything,while playing.
I never said you can't flank,but also when you do flank dont lose your support and firepower at the same time while doing it.Should of said this sentence than two pargraphs :p but I typed it out im just going to leave it there.

Ditch all of my speeders you say? Well if so then what do you suggest i replace them with.
I have this so far (without the speeders)
ok here is two 1k list made by me didnt really take that long but here they are first one is with one land speeder.

**********************************************
Hq-Master(captain),bike,powe w.-105 pts

Troops-

4 bikes-TH,power f.,melta gun-200 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f.melta gun-200 pts
4 bikes-TH,power w.,melta gun-195 pts

Fast attack-1 Land speeder-1 heavy bolter,assualt cannon-80 pts

Heavy support-

2 Attack bikes-110 pts
1 attack bike -55 pts
1 attack bike -55 pts

second list

HQ-Master(Captain),bike,power w.-105 pts

Troops-

4 bikes-TH,power f.2x melta gun-210 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f.2x melta gun-210 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f..,1x melta gun-195 pts

Fast Attack-x

Heavy support-

2 Attack bikes-110 pts
2 attack bike-110 pts
1 attack bike 55 pts


The HQ,I always make them cheap specialy in Ravenwing cuz their never going to be in assualt so might as well make them cheap.The first list looks more stable,but lacks a little on tank busting,if land speeder is taken out,but the army can still handle well.Second list is more of a punch kicker both in tanks and infantry,if assualt ever comes around you have powerfist deal with assualt stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Gee Grim Reaper thanks a lot! Your posts are fantastic!

Grim_Reaper said:
You don't need Land Speeders in order to win,yes I agree they draw a lot of fire power,they can blow things apart send everything to hell.Thing is you are relying on armour 10 to win you the game
Yes i understand what you are saying here and totally agree.I have bad feelings when i think about relying on armour 10 to win me the game.They do have a place in a Ravenwing army though,do doubt about it but i don't agree with maxing out on them.I think in a 1000 points i will go with 1 and in 1500 i will go with 6.

I see what you are saying with your law,lol btw creative example there as well.

Now your lists:

Grim_Reaper said:
Hq-Master(captain),bike,powe w.-105 pts

Troops-

4 bikes-TH,power f.,melta gun-200 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f.melta gun-200 pts
4 bikes-TH,power w.,melta gun-195 pts

Fast attack-1 Land speeder-1 heavy bolter,assualt cannon-80 pts

Heavy support-

2 Attack bikes-110 pts
1 attack bike -55 pts
1 attack bike -55 pts
I like this list but i don't like it how there is only 1 meltagun in each squad.I think i will use this list but i will alter it by dropping one attack bike and using the points to get more meltaguns for the bike squads.
Also im not sure that the attack bikes with deal out enough damage that i need.What are your thoughts? How do they perform for you. Because in a 1000 i will be outnumbered a hell of a lot and i need to thin them out alot.And with those heavy bolters i donut see them doing that especially when I'm facing power armour.

Do you have any more advice to give,you have been absolutely great in helping me so far.Im taking all of it in and will use it.

Cheers,
Tycho
 

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I like this list but i don't like it how there is only 1 meltagun in each squad.I think i will use this list but i will alter it by dropping one attack bike and using the points to get more meltaguns for the bike squads.
Also im not sure that the attack bikes with deal out enough damage that i need.What are your thoughts? How do they perform for you. Because in a 1000 i will be outnumbered a hell of a lot and i need to thin them out alot.And with those heavy bolters i donut see them doing that especially when I'm facing power armour.

Do you have any more advice to give,you have been absolutely great in helping me so far.Im taking all of it in and will use it.
first list,I would use personally if I think about it,the land speeder fly over the terrian and can be a headace for the opponent,also can be good rescuer in time get you out of pinning points when opponent try's to pin u in a cornor.Yah good point drop one attack bike,buff up the sqauds,and master.

Basicly when Im playing ravenwing,in simple terms I call it "tease the opponent" speed army's are very good at teasing a army,but you gotta be very carefull about this.Since you have speed divide up his army,each time divide up his army you are 10 times greater than him.Then attack his weakest opening/part where he can't defend,then after he breaks his edge attack him full force.

Ok heavy bolters dont seem all the scary and all,but after he keeps rolling more than three dice,hes bound to fail a couple and make him run u know.Focus all your energy one one part of his army at a time.Ravenwing can't take on his whole army at once,so you gotta exclude his firepower much as possible,until you he is weak enough so you can bring down as a whole.

Against Space Marines you just gotta learn how to cut down his army in bricks,also even chaos has stated Ravenwing is mainly for advanced players not calling you a newb but you gotta apply all strategy,tactics before the game hasent even started.You gotta learn all army's tactics,weakness's,strengths to just get ravenwing killing and putting the fear on your opponents face.The best strategy I can give you against any army is you gotta foil the opponents strategy and that is the greatest.The more balanced army there is the more harder to detect a opponents weakness,hell your whole army can be your weakness and strength forcing him to take on everything to bring it down.

I learned all my playing from a guy,named rolin his main army was deathwing,he's rich played every army knows every army's weakness,strength,tactics u know name it from the inside out.He is so keen at measurments,that he just puts a model a board and can actually tell u the exact measurments how far like range of a weapon to the model.The guy is insane won like 9 rouge traders straight until he lost to slaneesh,then just started helping other players.He told me he always wants to lose,cuz you never learn by winning,you always learn by losing he even said he will do mistakes on purpose to just give his opponents a chance and remind him of mistakes he shall not do during a game,main thing he told me by playing its always about balanced.Told me to read the book art of war,that's where 3/4 of my strategy talk comes from.

Myself sucked at this game period,lost almost every game,until I read art of war and started balancing out my army.Ever since then I win games now for once it feels great but I have lost by doing major mistakes with ravenwing,I got over 123 pages of written down of army lists,strategy's of other army's do etc..but if you read the book,I advise you to tell other people about it.

If you havent read it you gotta buy the book and keep it on your shelf or carry it around you daily as like bible 2.I think its the best book ever written on life itself,I felt so stupid because it has such good common sense what it tells you about war,politics,goverments,life.Besides religion this can guide you on strategy for life,business even,military,dealing with enemy's,even society.Famous quote by the godfather "keep your friends close,and your enemy's closer" was riped off art of war.The main point of 'art of war' is its meaning,if you want to learn about strategy comes from Sun Tzu~Art of War.Hell you dont even need me or nobody,by reading this book.My personal opion,this book should be required for every student to read in every school,has such great knowledge just hasent been really discovered.
 

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Ghost of LO
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Actually your wrong
To what am i wrong about?

Did you mean taking trait bikes as troops? Be swift as the wind allows bike squads with at least 5 models it count as troops, for plus 2 points per model, you can have skilled riders.

For every bike you will save with a 6+ (1 in 6) You could buy another bike with trait marines, but not get the save.

Example:

6 ravenwing bikes = 240

7 trait marine bikes = 238

So, pretend your wounded with 6 lascannons -

1 Ravenwing bike lives.

1 trait marine bike lives.

Do you see how having the extra bike is an advantage? because he can make attacks untill hes killed. (also you get frag grenades with trait marines including in the point cost, and this also includes the points for skilled riders.)

If you intend on going bike heavy, your better off with a chaplain, so you will be overall better in CC. And then you get frag genades as well, making you yet further better in CC.

Intractable doesnt work for Ravenwing, nor may any model be stuborn in a ravenwing army. So there is no advantage to playing ravenwing, without the skimmers.

This isnt to say the bikes arent good, it mearly means that trait bikes are better. You could still paint them black...

Traits marines moding ravenwing:
Traits: be swift as the wind, we stand alone.

Chaplain, 3 wounds. 147
Bike(IC get skilled riders.);
Terminator honours;
bolt pistol;
frags;

Troops-

Bike squad, 5 man + attack bike 272
2x melta guns;
Sgt, powerfist + bolt pistol.
Attached Attack bike, HB;
Skilled riders;
Frags;

Bike squad, 5 man + attack bike 272
2x melta guns;
Sgt, powerfist + bolt pistol.
Attached Attack bike, HB;
Skilled riders;
Frags;

Bike squad, 5 man + attack bike 287
2x melta guns;
Sgt, powerfist + bolt pistol.
Attached Attack bike, multi melta;
Skilled riders;
Frags;


total 978.

Which is better?

HQ-Master(Captain),bike,power w.-105 pts

Troops-

4 bikes-TH,power f.2x melta gun-210 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f.2x melta gun-210 pts
4 bikes-TH,power f..,1x melta gun-195 pts

Fast Attack-x

Heavy support-

2 Attack bikes-110 pts
2 attack bike-110 pts
1 attack bike 55 pts
(this ones total: 995)
Horrible HQ.
Total bikes: 12
Total melta weapons: 3
Total attack bikes/HB 5

VS
Good HG.
Total bikes 15
Total melta weapons: 7
Total attack bikes 3, HB 2.
 
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