caraphace armour
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If you look in the Doctrines section near the end of the book, under Special Equipment, it gives you he option for giving all your models Carapace Armor; however, it's usually just plain not worth it since:
1. Every race has some kind of special weapon with multiple shots/Blast at AP4.
2. If your enemy takes lots of these, the save will be of most use in close combat, where Guardsmen tend to die anyway.
3. Cameleoline and Jungle Fighters give you an equal or better cover save for fewer points.
On the other hand, it's probably worth putting on your Officers, since anything that keeps them (and their Command Radius) in the game is worth the points.
1. Every race has some kind of special weapon with multiple shots/Blast at AP4.
2. If your enemy takes lots of these, the save will be of most use in close combat, where Guardsmen tend to die anyway.
3. Cameleoline and Jungle Fighters give you an equal or better cover save for fewer points.
On the other hand, it's probably worth putting on your Officers, since anything that keeps them (and their Command Radius) in the game is worth the points.
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Yeah I prefer cameoline over carapce anyday. If you find good cover, you get that +1 which in most cases brings you to a 4+ save anyway. And if you find really good cover, ou may even get a 3+....but that kind of cover is few n far between.
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carapace armor has it's merits, because there is an amazing overabundence of ap5 crap floating around. However, it has to then be given to the WHOLE army, which gets expensive, fast. I prefer to be armored in numbers.
The best way to use carapace armor would be on Rough Riders or Xeno Mounts, because unlike the rest of your army it SHOULD be in close combat and it's cheapest to do it like that. Also, if you combine carapace and xeno mounts, you've got Guardsmen with the equivilant of power armor. I don't imagine people playing guardsmen usually think to bring a lot of power weapons or ap3 guns, so they may be in for a nasty surprise.
I don't like cameleoline either, because that would require me to hug cover, where people could just run up and flame the crap out of me. Also, that requires either infiltrating into cover or walking in there, and I don't like the idea of guard platoons getting closer to the enemy then they really have to. I would rather just not spend any points on those upgrades so I can get continously more guards. Guardsmen win battles, not their saves.
The best way to use carapace armor would be on Rough Riders or Xeno Mounts, because unlike the rest of your army it SHOULD be in close combat and it's cheapest to do it like that. Also, if you combine carapace and xeno mounts, you've got Guardsmen with the equivilant of power armor. I don't imagine people playing guardsmen usually think to bring a lot of power weapons or ap3 guns, so they may be in for a nasty surprise.
I don't like cameleoline either, because that would require me to hug cover, where people could just run up and flame the crap out of me. Also, that requires either infiltrating into cover or walking in there, and I don't like the idea of guard platoons getting closer to the enemy then they really have to. I would rather just not spend any points on those upgrades so I can get continously more guards. Guardsmen win battles, not their saves.
I agree with Ubernyaw that a lot of basic troops have AP5 weapons. It's common as muck. Carapace makes the enemy fire SW and HW at you, however I think Cameleoline has it's merits too, but both of these require your entire army to be equipped, and this is not worth thinking about.
Equipping an army of 50+ men with cameleoline is not worth thinking about, as only a fraction of them will find conveniantly placed cover, and carapace is just as bad. It isn't worth 20pts per squad to equip BS3 line infantry with a little more survivability.
I wouldn't consider either of these doctrines unless your troops were very thin on the ground (ie. Grenadiers or tank armies) and if your basic infantry are so few then cameleoline is always the better choice.
So IMO, I would forget carapace unless you have a themed reason for it. Certainly don't equip basic infantry based armies with it.
Equipping an army of 50+ men with cameleoline is not worth thinking about, as only a fraction of them will find conveniantly placed cover, and carapace is just as bad. It isn't worth 20pts per squad to equip BS3 line infantry with a little more survivability.
I wouldn't consider either of these doctrines unless your troops were very thin on the ground (ie. Grenadiers or tank armies) and if your basic infantry are so few then cameleoline is always the better choice.
So IMO, I would forget carapace unless you have a themed reason for it. Certainly don't equip basic infantry based armies with it.
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I play with carapace. And I like it. 
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The only reason I do not use carapace is cost and every guard unit must have it. If they let pick and choose it would be differnt . About the only time I would use it, would be against Tau. I rather have more guardsmen. Usually believe or not numbers will make a big differnce not better units.
bonekrusher
bonekrusher
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I use it for the flavour. And at 8 points, it's strictly better than say, an Eldar Guardian, or any other 8 point unit.
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Another important thing to consider is how exactly you plan to MODEL 50+ guardsmen with carapce... it's tedious enough without customuzing everybody's flak vests!
I save it for my commissars and rough riders, since they're the only units in my army I even care about protecting... :shifty:
I save it for my commissars and rough riders, since they're the only units in my army I even care about protecting... :shifty:
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If you want carapaced armour troops.. consider grenadiers..
For 2 points more per dude, you get an extra point of ballistic skill, an ever so slightly better gun, some very useful targetters, and a bunch of grenades. I think it's a much better deal..
That, and you can still take normal guardsmen as well.
For 2 points more per dude, you get an extra point of ballistic skill, an ever so slightly better gun, some very useful targetters, and a bunch of grenades. I think it's a much better deal..
That, and you can still take normal guardsmen as well.
Very good point, Abraham. If you didn't add extra plates onto all your guys you might have some opponents disallow this kind of misrepresentation, and also on a fluff note you wouldn't have it properly represented.Abraham Lincoln said:
And in my opinion, Grenadiers are actualy a troop worthy of protecting with carapace, I just don't think a 6pts guardsmen deserves to wear it!The_Giant_mantis said:
The only place I'd ever consider getting carapace is on rough riders (it is legal to select it as an option for RRs but not the rest of the list). You don't gain anything by giving it to line troopers.
Think about it: You make them 33% more expensive per man, but only 17% more survivable. Even if your squad has 40 p in gear, it's still a bad deal. And if every squad in your list costs 118 p--which is what it would take to make the 17% survivability upgrade a good deal at 20 p--you've got another really big problem.
Think about it: You make them 33% more expensive per man, but only 17% more survivable. Even if your squad has 40 p in gear, it's still a bad deal. And if every squad in your list costs 118 p--which is what it would take to make the 17% survivability upgrade a good deal at 20 p--you've got another really big problem.
Grenadiers is definitely a better option IMO. Rough Riders would do well with carapace armor though. Unless I'm mistaken though, last I checked, I read that if you use the carapace armor doctrine, then everyone in your army MUST be given the upgrade. So if you wanna give those roughriders carapace armor, you gotta share the wealth with the rest of your troops as well.
Personally, I only give carapace armor to officers, commissars, and my tooled up psyker.
Personally, I only give carapace armor to officers, commissars, and my tooled up psyker.
Well, the way I see it, if I'm being forced to take the sanctioned psyker doctrine (I have a true mordian regiment), then I might as well utilize it. When kitted out with a force weapon and honorifica, the psyker can be a very potent adversary in HtH (see the thread about sanctioned psykers).
Anyway, even a basic, unequipped psyker has it's uses too. I've been lucky enough to take out a tau hammerhead with the machine curse. At worst, you pay 12 points for an extra wound in your command squad.
Anyway, even a basic, unequipped psyker has it's uses too. I've been lucky enough to take out a tau hammerhead with the machine curse. At worst, you pay 12 points for an extra wound in your command squad.
I don't really support either psykers or "tooled-up" Guard lists. By the time you get your Guard all gussied up with sharpshooters and carapace armor and hardened fighters and lettuce, tomatoes, and a side of fries, they cost almost as much as marines, but ain't nowhere near as good as Marines at shooting, fighting, or making their armor save. Guardsmen are overcosted to begin with (check out the points-per-kill chart on the warmongers club site if you don't believe it), and every upgrade you buy is too expensive for what it does, which makes a bad situation worse.
No, my Guardsmen are lucky if they get so much wargear as "gruel and dry socks."
No, my Guardsmen are lucky if they get so much wargear as "gruel and dry socks."
About the only time I might consider taking the Carapace armour equipment option as a doctrine would be if I also took the Veterans Doctrine and maybe Grenadiers.
Three units of Veterans with BS 4, 3 special, 1 heavy weapon and a 4+ save would be nice and I'd round out the troop choices with Grenadiers to represent an elite regiment. The army would play much differently than regular guard though.
Three units of Veterans with BS 4, 3 special, 1 heavy weapon and a 4+ save would be nice and I'd round out the troop choices with Grenadiers to represent an elite regiment. The army would play much differently than regular guard though.
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