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Champion in combat question, very urgent! plz reply ASAP.

528 Views 5 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  3Xhume
i just wanted to ask you guys about some basic ruling, but it seems that it was not clear as my case is not stated on the BRB (big red book)

here is the situation:
i control a 5x5 block of skeleton warriors with FULL COMMAND (std, mus, champ) and my opponent control a unit of 4 ironguts. The ironguts charged my skelie block. i hold. then in combat phase, say the ironguts make an impressive 8 wounds without my opponent allocating any of the attacks against my command group. I remove 8 of the wounded model. so here is the question:

Can i return the attacks with my skeleton unit especially with my skeleton champion???

One of my veteran friend said that i can make the attacks with the champion even if my front rank is totally devastated as the champion is not dead. So no matter what happens
to the unit, as long as you have 1 models left in combat and you choose that the champion is the remaining model in the unit, you can make the champion return the attacks with his own attacks. Is this true?? As for me, i think that i cannot make any returns as my front rank is wiped out. (note: No spears)

Whether it is true or false, could you help me find the FAQ, Errata or RULING that support your arguments. I'd really appreciate that because we want to make it clear, so i'd like to print the FAQ.

Stated on the BRB that you could allocate the attacks to the champion. To make it simple you allocate 4 attacks to the champion then you make 3 wounds but the champion only has 1 wound. But here is what is stated on BRB. Any excess of the wounds is not wasted, but the wounds are carried over to his rank and file unit. can't remember what page, but this is stated in command section of the BRB.

thank you for your replies.
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Your champion can make his attack back. He is there till only himself, the musician and standard are left... any more wounds on the unit then take out either the musician/champion and the banner barer is the last man to fall.

When in combat attacks made to your champion are declared before the "To Hit" roles are made. This is because, not everyone in the enemy front rank can reach the champion, only those in base contact with the champion can elect to hit him.

Its not fair to role all hits then allocate the wounds to the champion as some of those hits may have been caused by someone not in bases contact with the champion.

Hope this helps
forgot to state something important. What im asking is can the champion return the attack in the same close combat phase which wiped out my front ranks? not the following combat phase. i know that they are alive and can make attacks in the next combat phase as normal.

my friend said that they could.
Yes, he can. He returns his attacks in that phase. I would imagine the other guys in the unit either protects him or he stays out the way, but you can only kill a champion if you direct attacks to him or kill him in a challenge. If he is not killed, he will always get his attacks back.
The easiest way to think of it is not as two units base to base facing each other but a swirling melee. As a result your champion will be in the thick of fighting ready to strike back.
hmm, for master_bungle. i can also imagine that your other guys protect the champ. but logically to be protected, they need to be placed in a safer place. say it was my second rank, so the champ step back and his guy step up to the first rank to protect him in the thick of battle. then the entire front rank was annihilated. the champion is safe but he cannot make the attacks as he is in the second rank. i find these logical.

but as two people have stated that the champ can do their attacks back, i have to stick with that. do you people has the links to FAQ, Errata, and Ruling that explain this clearly.

thank you.
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