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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello to all the Brothers of the Warp,

From the title, you can see that I have decided to give into the voice of Chaos for my second army. For the last few years, I have been playing Mech. Eldar, while I still love the pointy eared space elves; I feel it is time to try something else, CHAOS!!!

Now I have been reading through the current Chaos Codex, and have heard the calling of the Blood God and the Lord of Decay. So, I want to do a Khorne/Nurgle army. Now here is the kicker, I want to do 180 degrees from the Mech. Eldar, and have an all infantry, balanced Chaos Army.

I would really appreciate it; form the Chaos Veterans and players, a little advice before I go and pour blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY into this army. First, I would like to know the Po’s and Con’s of an all infantry Chaos army. Also, Is there anything that an all infantry Chaos list shouldn’t do without?

Again thanks in advice for the help. I look forward to getting to know the Chaos Brothers in this forum.

-Story
 

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Well, Im a huge time newb but I think I have something smart to say.

If you're going with all infantry, you're still going to need some mobility. Raptors, deep striking termies/oblits, and HQs with some sort of flight are the only things that I see filling this role, so you might want to have at least 1 or 2 of these units.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Hello and welcome to gods' children. Congratulations on your adoption of chaos. We have a very active forum.

Unfortunately, neither Khorne nor Nurgle troops are particularly lending to foostlogging. While Plague Marines have the toughness for enduing a lot of the incoming ranged attacks, they don't have the speed, range, or mobility for covering the distance across the board. That chore we typically relegate to Noise Marines (Slaanesh) and Thousand Sons (Tzeentch). However, if you like chosen and raptors, then you can create very suitable units with your respective marks, especially the Icon of Khorne.

I'll give you the same advice I give everyone, who begins a new army and the same advice that was so wisely conferred to me: Play test your build and even particular units before making any large purchases. Most of the Chaos codex translates fairly well to the tabletop, but certainly not all of it.

What specifically did you have in mind for your build? Maybe we can work something out :)
 

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Swarm Queen of LO
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Like it's been said - for footsloggers we usually go with Noise Marines or Thousand Sons, but I think between Plague Marines and Berzerkers, Plague Marines would make the better choice for foot sloggers - give them some good numbers (8 or so per squad) and plasmaguns. They will get shot up before getting in range, but they can take it. That's what Plague Marines are good at.

Save the Khorne units for things like raptors, a winged daemon prince or bikers, so they can get into close-combat ASAP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the fast replies.

My natural attraction is to Plague Marines, to me(coming from eldar) it is insane you can field Toughness 5 on the playing board, but I, also, love khrone. MoK raptors sound pretty good. One thing that I must say is the basic Chaos Marine squad is a steal of deal. I would like to have at least two of them. Also, I was already thinking of HQ's with wing/jump pack. I think in the next few days, I will sit down and put a list together for you guys to give me insight on. Thanks again.
 

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Here's the basic build I've been running for my all infantry:

Karmoon special X1-2
(4 termies, 3 with combi plas and 1 with c.fist or p.fist and h.flamer)

Oblits (squads of 3) x1-2

Chosen (of nurgle, 10 guys)
MoNurgle
1 P.Fist
2 melta guns

Sorc Lord with Lash of Submission

Raptors/bikes with an icon to help Deep strike in the oblits/termies.


This has worked pretty solid, depending on how much you spend on the oblits/termies and the rapotrs/bikes kinda decides what you take for a troop choice. If you're running low, take two squads of 'meat' (basic guy, no upgrades, 5 man squad) just to fill the force-org chart. If not, I like the plague marines to give the lash some more wounds, or if you're feeling offensive, take some slaaneshie guys with the sound blaster upgrade.

With this list, th chosen, bikes/raptors and the lord will all have homers which will make dropping the blits/termies very effective.
 

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Topic Creator Deluxe
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For making an infantry-based army, chaos is the best option. Chaos have the best overall infantry grunts in the game - the Chaos Space Marines.
The Chaos Space Marine is the most versatile model in the game. It got space marine stats, both bolter and cc weapons, their rhinos are cheap and you can configure the unit into a number of different roles - whether it be close quarter firefights (plasmaguns), close quarter anti-tank (meltaguns) or just hand-to-hand fighting.

You said you want to go 180 from Mech Eldar, Have a balanced chaos army AND use cult troops. That just ain't gonna fly. Chose 1 of these and go for that.

To make the chaos army really shine, use them to their full extent. Make use of their relative cheapness/effectiveness. Use lots of versatile tactical squads supported by "Karmoon Special" terminators. The "Karmoon Special" is a unit of 4 terminators, 3 with Combi-plasma + power weapon and 1 with Heavy Flamer and Power Fist. This unit is extremely effective and cheap.

Raptors are good. They are cheaper than Assault marines, do almost the same thing and can carry some special weapons. I love them.

For starters, I would avoid the cult units such as the Berzerkers and the Plaguemarines. They are quite expensive in terms of cold hard cash. Build your army cheap, fast and hard hitting.
Remember that Icons works as teleport homers, so you can teleport the termies just where you want them, as long as a unit with an Icon is there.

Get your marines in via rhino. Their close range firepower combined with close combat will win you the battle, not some special rules on the cult lists.

If you're just dying to make a god-specific list I would personally recomend Khorne.
They lack long range and midrange firepower, but gives you mobility and the joy of ripping your opponent apart. The list is fluffy, fast and Khorny.

Something like this.
This army is true Khorne. Get to the enemy fast, destroy everything on your way in and rip them apart in close combat. By including the "Karmoon Special" terminator squad at 150 pts. and/or a Greater Daemon you can put your army at 1750, 1850 and 2000pts - these are the most common tourney points values.

Khorne army - World Eaters Planetary Slaughter Force: 1750 pts.

Chaos Lord - 150 pts.
Mark of Khorne
Lightning Claws
WIngs / Jump Pack

Khorne Berzerkers X 10 - 320.
Skull Champion with Plasma Pistol + P. Sword
2 Plasma Pistols in unit.
Rhino

Khorne Berzerkers X 10 - 320 pts.
Skull Champion with Plasma Pistol + P. Sword
2 Plasma Pistols in unit.
Rhino

Raptors X 8 - 250 pts. (dont use the ugly Raptor models, use Berzerkers with space marine jump packs instead)
Aspiring Champion with P. Fist
Icon of Khorne
2 Meltaguns

Raptors X 8 - 250 pts.
Aspiring Champion with Lightning Claws
Icon of Khorne
2 Meltaguns

Havocs x 8 - 225 pts. (Of course you dont use ordinary havocs, but Berzerkers with Plasmaguns and some bolters)
Aspiring Champion with P. Sword
Icon of Khorne
4 Meltaguns
Rhino

Havocs x 8 - 235 pts.
Aspiring Champion with P. Fist
Icon of Khorne
4 Meltaguns
Rhino
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Mr_Wayne, the main problem I see in your proposed built is the lack of range swarm killers. Having duel zerker & dual raptor squads leaves you with a general lack of basic bolter fire. :happy:

Storyofmylife, here are a couple of more things to consider.

Icons & Cult Marines: In general, the Icon Khorne is your most effective cult icon, considering the cost, save for hqs, which typically benefits more from either the IoS (for lash) or the IoT (for a whole slew of reasons). The IoN tends to come with a hefty cost. If you're already investing in expensive troop slots, then you might as well just to take plague marines. Berzkerers, on the other hand, are so specialized in c.c., that you end up needing some other means of dealing with the swarm. For many players, this translates to Sonic Noise Marines.

As for your specific requirements, it looks as though Plague Marines suffice for your troop options. For elite, I would strongly (emphasize strongly) recommend using undivided or non-marked terminators and/or chosen with the IoK; the later of which have incredible versatility. I would venture to say that Khorne Chosen are our most versatile & cost efficient chaos unit in the game. They gain tactical placement advantage; they can deal with things at range and in c.c.; they have a superior number of attacks which really comes in handy when they are charged; they come with a ridiculous number of special weapon options (which I limit to 2-3 due to cost). When compared to raptors, which is a fair comparison, as both units function as spearhead support, chosen are better equipped for swarm management. While chosen are slower, their superior placement should yield them a simultaneous charge alongside the raptors. Hope this helps.
 

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Welcome to the Chaos forum - a great choice for a second army.

As has been mentioned, in the new codex Chaos basic troops have become incredible, and in points terms very cheap. This makes all infantry armies much more viable.

Bezerkers are I'd say the 3rd best assault unit in the game now (behind genestealers and harlequins), for a very low points cost. On the charge they'll devastate most things.

Plague Marines are tough cookies. Marine armour AND that high tougness? Tough to kill. So even footslogging, unless you get pie-plated by a Leman Russ, you've a good chance of laughing of a good amount of firepower.

For hitting enemy vehicles, the cost of having 3 Lascannons on your predators now seems insane, so fielding havoc's seems much more appealing.

Dealing with swarms can be tricky, but in an all infantry set up you can field so many bolters that you should be fine.

As for HQ, may I suggest a Daemon Lord, Wings, Mark of Khorne, Daemon Weapon. That's potentially SO MANY attacks it blows my mind!
 

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If you want a Daemon Prince as your Lord choice, I'd suggest against the Khornate DP. Firstly, Daemon Princes can't use D. Weapons. Second, he's too expensive for being a one trick pony. If you really want a DP, use one with mark of Tzeentch, wings, Doombolt and Warptime.

If you want a good assault-lord, take a winged Space marine Lord with Mark of Khorne and Lightning Claws or the Daemon weapon. He's got a better chance of winning his money back.

What makes Plague arines so good is that they have Feel No Pain. You have another 4+ save after the armoursave. That coupled with T5 and 3+ armour save makes them virtually impossible to kill.

Rabbit:
Mr_Wayne, the main problem I see in your proposed built is the lack of range swarm killers. Having duel zerker & dual raptor squads leaves you with a general lack of basic bolter fire.
Mr_Wayne:
f you're just dying to make a god-specific list I would personally recomend Khorne.
They lack long range and midrange firepower, but gives you mobility and the joy of ripping your opponent apart. The list is fluffy, fast and Khorny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
First and foremost let me say Thanks to all of you for the great input. Second I am a bit overwhelmed by all this input so fast and it will take me a few days to digest it. Then I will set down sort things out with all your great advice, and the codex. Hopefully this Friday I am going to play test (by proxy) some builds with all this advice that has been given to me and I will let all you know what the overcome is.

Due to not being a rich man, I want to be very sure of everything, before I go blowing huge amount of cash on this army.

One more quick question for all of you, is Chaos more of a straight ward playing army than Eldar. I am not saying that Chaos is not as tactical or anything of that sort, but I would like to not have a headache after playing them, like I sometimes have with Mech Eldar. I guess what I am saying is Chaos very much a go forth and kill army.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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One more quick question for all of you, is Chaos more of a straight ward playing army than Eldar. I am not saying that Chaos is not as tactical or anything of that sort, but I would like to not have a headache after playing them, like I sometimes have with Mech Eldar. I guess what I am saying is Chaos very much a go forth and kill army.
Compared to Eldar, I'd say most armies are more straight forward. Chaos is akin to our loyalist Emperor worshiping ex-brethren in the sense that we're well-rounded and not going to win the range-race with either Tau or I.G., nor will we reign supremely in c.c. against Nids, Dark Eldar, or Orks. Chaos excels at finding the right balance between range and c.c.. Our specialty, if we have one, is short range domination, between c.c. and 12", where our rapid firing arsenal my unload a merriment explosive rounds and other assortments of special weapon hate.
 

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Big fish in a little pond
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Compared to Eldar, I'd say most armies are more straight forward. Chaos is akin to our loyalist Emperor worshiping ex-brethren in the sense that we're well-rounded and not going to win the range-race with either Tau or I.G., nor will we reign supremely in c.c. against Nids, Dark Eldar, or Orks. Chaos excels at finding the right balance between range and c.c.. Our specialty, if we have one, is short range domination, between c.c. and 12", where our rapid firing arsenal my unload a merriment explosive rounds and other assortments of special weapon hate.
Agreed, since the new dex I think chaos has become more challenging to win with and hence needs a fair amount of strategy and timing to play correctly. There is a fairly quick learning curve as you realize what each unit can handle and what should be priorities. With an infantry only build and your lack mobility, the initial depolyment can and usually does play a large factor in how you do for the entire battle. I have been very successful with my infantry only list. The key factors for me have been Icon of Glory on regular troops squads, Icon of Khorne/Slaneshi on chosen and deepstriking units of obliterators in concert with the icons. The beauty of chaos is if your opponent is better in cc then you you can shoot him and win, if he is better at shooting you can assault him and win. Good luck and welcome to the dark side!!!!
 

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The beauty of Chaos is that it can handle anything thrown at it, if the army´s built correctly.
Nids are only good at melee, and if faced with a overly shooty opponent the bugs will lose.
Guard are shooty, and will lose against a heavy melee list.
Marines can be very powerfull in melee, but the list must be built to that way. In the same time can a shooty marine list be successfull, but must also be built that way.
Chaos has the opportunity to be good at both melee and shooting - if the elements are used together. The Chaos army is expensive pointswise. If the enemy negates one key aspect you are lost. Yet if you hold the army together you will pick him apart.
What makes marines so good is ATSKNF - which mean that they won't run away. Chaos got the Icon of Chaos Glory, it's not as good ut gives us a chanse. If you use the Icon of Slaanesh or Khorne, your army will be more aggressive, but also more fragile.

In my builds I often make the units abilities overlap. My havocs are aggressive with the IoK and moile with the rhino. My Raptors can handle some shooting with meltaguns or plasma guns. My elites, such as the Karmoon Special Terminators, doesn't play key elements and are just supportive, and my grunts (the Chaos Space Marines) are the real gamewinners with their enormous versatility. This sometimes gives you the upper hand. Say the termies teleport in just beside your battered squads of CSM during a critical moment on turn 3. They blast away with their one shot combiplasmas and all but eliminates one squad of tactical, but can't charge due to teleportation. Instead of shooting at and assaulting your wonderfull grunts, the enemy concentrates on the new threat and leaves your gamewinners alone. He shoots the termies and then charges them. The termies got IoCG, so they won't run away easily, and can handle the punishment thrown at them. You can then go on and claim objectives, strengthen other combats or just win the game as you seem fit with the CSM.
 

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One Awesome Dude
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I'd say an all infantry build is quite viable vs. most armies. It's not always going to be a walk in the park, but it's doable I think. All of the others have given quite good advice, so I won't say much, I just wanted to reccommend a squad configuration Rabbit showed me -

Noise Marines [x5]

Sonic Blasters x4
Blast Master

This is a great little squad all for the cost of 160 points. It's cheap, can move and fire every single turn, and is underestimated by opponents when it comes to scoring. It really does pack a punch, and is quite versatile.

@Rabbit - I could do with some filling in on these MoK Chosen squads, I love Chosen (fluffwise) and would like to work them into some of my builds. How do these squads work? I assume they try to get into assault after melta-ing armor on turn one?
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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@Rabbit - I could do with some filling in on these MoK Chosen squads, I love Chosen (fluffwise) and would like to work them into some of my builds. How do these squads work? I assume they try to get into assault after melta-ing armor on turn one?
Khornate Chosen just have tremendous flexibility, but similar to raptors they need the right support. If you take, for example, a mech heavy build, then you can expect any lingering infantry or jump pack troops to be taken down very early, due to there being no other targets for incoming infantry ranged attacks. In infantry builds, chosen of all sorts really come into their own, since there are other footslogging targets which should equally draw attention.

The additional attack conferred by the IoK allows the chosen, or any squad for that matter, sufficient attacks, even when being charged. This is particularly beneficial against swarms, when it's best to sit back and fire. The special weapon options bounce between plasma and melta, depending on the need. With two chosen squads, it's not a bad idea to take plasma in one and melta in the other. Two things here: Plasma- So often, I find myself needing the longer range of the plasma gun, which matches with the bolter and allows the squad to remain behind cover. This specifically comes into play against c.c. MEQ builds, which, at the same time, hesitate in a full blown charge against Khornate Chosen, due to the increased attacks. Melta- Most medium to heavy tanks can brush off plasma fire, so having chosen with plasma guns infiltrating within 18" of the opponent isn't always a deterrent. The melta, on the other hand, certainly is a formidable threat, and encourages my opponents' vehicles to avoid the chosen. For instance, if I want my opponent to veer his advance towards the left, then I counter by placing melta chosen on the right. It isn't a full-proof tactic, but more or less an incentive.

EDIT: To answer your question about getting them into c.c., well, sometimes that's the strategy and sometimes not. As you know, it just depends on the opponent. When chaos is on the offensive and advancing forward, I march my chosen directly in the face of my opponent as a special insult. However, this doesn't work for all builds, and depends on the rest of your army. You have to have other high priority targets, such as raptors, sonic marines, and havocs, which equally pose a threat, and consequently reduce the heat on your chosen. Actually, I prefer my opponents to shoot at my chosen, and more often than not they do, simply because the chosen are a serious c.c. threat, and must be taken out rather early in the game at range; all the while, the raptors are closing in, the terminators in shallow orbit are preparing for deep strike, and the sonic marines are marching slowly forward.
 
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