[distortiondave]

How do CSM's view the geneseed? Do they try and save it like loyalists do, or do they not really care? Is there any geneseed worth saving?

It is touched upon briefly in various books, one of the Uriel Ventris novels springs to mind, and the Soul Drinkers also, but generally speaking do they bother?

 

[NiteRabbit]

The geneseed is of similar holy significance to Chaos Marines as it is to Loyalist ones. Perhaps even moreso because they typically don't have easy and ready access to it unlike Loyalist chapters, unless they strike a deal with the clonemaster himself, Fabius Bile. Many sorcerers use geneseed to power their rituals, especially when they have a particular grudge against a certain chapter and Perturabo was able to become a daemon prince by bartering the geneseed of over 300 Imperial Fists to the Chaos Gods.

 

[Munch]

so can they take loyilst geneseed and use to make csm

 

[NiteRabbit]

Yes, but they will always be looked down upon by their battle brothers because their blood is not pure and they will have to fight that much harder to prove that they are worthy of their name. This isn't the case in all of the renegade warbands; it really depends on the personality of the one who is leading them. If you read Storm of Iron, Honsou is treated with disdain because he is not a true Iron Warrior but actually implanted with geneseed from the Imperial Fists (presumably captured at the Eternal Fortress).

 

[The_Giant_Mantis]

As mentioned, they do steal geneseed, both from the corpses of enemies and in planned raids on ships carrying geneseed, etc..

Am I remembering right that some of the Red Corsairs fluff in the new dex features them recouping the geneseed from fallen brothers? If so, they must have their own geneseed still.

The legions however, seem to be too mutated to use theirs.

 

[Brigand]

Well I would guess yes and no, they probably have some of their own, and they probably try to keep it un-mutated, but yea alot of it must get corrupted and become unusable (they probably try it anyway or promise it to the Chaos Gods or something)

 

[Tekore]

I assume it's still part of the process. There's a short story in "Let the Galaxy Burn!" (I know, I know, Black Library and all that) where Fabius Bile is collecting loyalist Geneseed for his purposes. I imagine it still takes a Space Marine (the physical parts) to make a Chaos Space Marine, and so geneseed is crucial.

Tekore

 

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

While they don't seem to have an Apothecary unit (besides Bile) represented on the table, I'm sure they have some way of getting hold of geneseed. And, because it's harder for them to get, they likely treat it with at least as much reverence as Loyalists. Though Loyalist geneseed might be disdained due to origin, it still is geneseed, and thus vital to the Legions.

I heard an awesome idea for a daemonic engine that harvests geneseed from both sides once... pretty sweet idea, too bad GW didnt' put anything like it in the Codex. Oh well, always hope for Codex: Daemons.

 

[Bigs180]

Theres speculation that the Alpha Legion might somehow be able to produce there own geneseed, because the bulk of there forces are outside the EOT, and dont have the longetivity that the other chaos marines do. that, and from the story in the new chaos codex, they seem to steal geneseeds or hypnotize loyalists.

 

[Kelnor]

The most basic problem with this type of fluff is its contradiction with other fluff. You see, while it is perfectly okay for most of the Legions to produce new CSM from captured or otherwise aquired Geneseed, i just can't imagine a bunch of World Eaters going to the long, costly and complex process of creating another Battle Brother (remember, even with the help of Chaos, it would still take years, if not decades to create a fully grown, battle-ready Space Marine), while all they think of is butchering people. Same goes for the Death Guard (yeah, creating new organs an implanting them in a way that the subject survives is fairly easy when you basicly a rotten, plague-infested walking corpse), Emperors Children (to perform surgery that goes for days on end is really a pleasure, i guess) and Thousand Sons (i guess to be a pile of dust can't come in handy in this matter, while your average Chaos Sorcerer can simply create new daemon-minions if he chooses to).

 

[NiteRabbit]

That's true, but then again, said Khorne Berzerkers are just as likely to grab a bunch of captives, make them fight each other to the death in a circle, and then take the last man standing off for several days of gruelling surgery before he's forced to fight with the warband and hope he will survive long enough to grow strong. The Thousand Sons don't really have the means to replace their numbers but then again it's rare for one of them to actually die. I agree that amongst the cult legions (except for maybe the Death Guard), actually recruiting new humans instead of corrupting other marines is probably less common.

 

[The_Giant_Mantis]

I have no evidence here, but I'm imagining Thousand Sons are virtually impossible to destroy entirely.. Even if the armour is blown to pieces, it can probably be reforged sorcerously, and the soul rebound into it..

Other than the thousand sons, the new codex changed the thing of cult forces considerably.. In order to become one, a marine has to swear loyalty to the relevant legion (or the rogue black legionaires who know the processes required.) He's then given the relevant neurosurgery/infected with the destroyer plague, and becomes marked. Given the need for loyalty, I'd imagine many cult troops just stay with the legion who marked them, rather than returning to their warbands, so I'd guess most recruits to the marked legions were originally members of other warbands who chose to swear loyalty to one God entirely.

 

[omegoku]

Not every World Eater was a berserker. Someone has to do the lobotomies!
I can just imagine the poor surgeon, desperately trying to restrain himself from simply tearing off the patients head when he sees all the blood.

BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOOOD! Scalpel please! REND! TEAR! MAIM! Starting Incision.. BLOOD!

I think it probably varies from legion to legion and warband to warband.
In the Ultramarines Omnibus, the Iron Warriors put Aspirants inside Daemonic Wombs created from captured women (or something along those lines) and when they emerge they are chaos marines.

 

[Tekore]

I think it probably varies from legion to legion and warband to warband.
In the Ultramarines Omnibus, the Iron Warriors put Aspirants inside Daemonic Wombs created from captured women (or something along those lines) and when they emerge they are chaos marines.

I remember reading that and thinking, "Okay, gonna skip ever making an Iron Warriors army, blech."

Tekore

 

[hotspike18]

Heh, yeah, that was a little weird. I'm not fluff expert, but I am pretty sure that McNeil was pretty much winging it. I imagine the point was to make instant marines, as opposed to several years of effort, resources, and indoctrination.

 

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Not every World Eater was a berserker. Someone has to do the lobotomies!
I can just imagine the poor surgeon, desperately trying to restrain himself from simply tearing off the patients head when he sees all the blood.

BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOOOD! Scalpel please! REND! TEAR! MAIM! Starting Incision.. BLOOD!

There's also the nature of the Berzerkers themselves. Look at Kharn's entry in the new Chaos Codex. They're all Berzerkers, but they're not absolutely, irredeemably insane and incapable of any other thought besides "KILL! MAIM! BURN!" to quote one of their more famous brethren. They are tactical fighters, albeit fierce. Unfortunately for them, Kharn is not so tactical.

 

[Adahn]

Aye, please keep in mind in Winter Assault - Lord Crull is quite the tactician despite being a World Eater.

 

[Archnomad]

Khorne isnt just the god of pure bloodlust, he has aspects of martial pride, honour, skill, in addition to battlerage. In general he is the Lord of fighting. All aspects of War are in khorne, so not all World Eaters will be berzerkers. I love the idea of the honourable, martial World Eater. Im going to have to make an army like that...

 

[Adahn]

That's an interesting thing you're saying there Archnomad, sorry to out of topic for a sec - but yes that's originally the aspect of Khorne that's been abandoned. I think a few years back Khorne was still seen as the God of War, Martial Honour, Glory in Battle, Respect your Enemey, Man-to-man Combat, and all those were various aspects. Now it seems that GW wants to make Khorne into a mindless god of bloodlust and his followers into a bunch of skull-crazy lunatic butchers.

Again, sorry for moving away from topic.

 

[hotspike18]

Well, that would be cool if Khorne still stood for that. And you could always base an army off of that anyway, just make some new fluff, I imagine it'd fit in quite nicely. Problem with the World Eaters is that Kharn, being the truest avatar we know of, slaughters....and that's it. Which would lead us to believe that that is what Khorne looks for in his disciples.