Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 20 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey All,

I Have a couple of questions for the community regarding small point games and specifically the fearsome greenskins! :)

Whats your experience fighting orks in the new codex? and have you fought them at low points levels?

My partner has recently started playing and she loves orks so we have been play testing them alot before she buys her first batch of models to make sure she like thier style.

I dont belive im a bad player, just ok, however my novice partner with lists picked of models, 'she likes', at 500points, is continualy making life very hard for me!

Ive tried 2 variations of lists that i belive to be quite competative against most armys at this points limit.

NOTE: i have posted this in the general area to discuss orks and how they play from a chaos point of view in general, Unless you have a specific concern regarding the lists i would like to refrain from discussing them right now and keep this as a discussion about the new Orks, thier strength in low and high point games and tactics chaos can employ against them. cheers :)

#1 (sorcerer got insta killed a little to easy for my liking)

Sorcerer, Mos, Lash

6 CSM, 1 Plasma
6 CSM, 1 Plasma

7 havocs, 3 ML

#2

Daemon Prince, Mos, Lash, wings

5 CSM, 1 Plasma
5 CSM, 1 Plasma

7 havocs, 3 ML


Now, ive been honing my tatics and feel im getting the maximum out of my small fire squads, but maybe its me, or maybe those new greenskins are just really powerful at this level?

She is using one of the Shoc attack guns on a Big Mek, 2 squads of boys with nob power klaws, and bikes or deffkopters.

I keep my small infantry squads out of los to the big mek and use them to deal with infantry as it comes in. I take out the bikes or kopters or transport with the havocs and make a be-line for the big mek with my daemon prince with the aim of getting it out of play turn3 - id love to shoot it but tht damn IC rule... - (all the while stopping one of her boys squads getting to my infantry with the lash).

It always seems to go to plan, however the sheer numbers of orks usually whittle me down so that by the end she has a marginal victory or a draw,

i dont want to go on-any further with specifics, i have outlined my plight! :)

What are other people experiencing in similar situations?

Any feedback is greatfully appreciated!

Moon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
The new Orks are really fun to play and play against. In low point games, the Big Mech with Shoc, and units of Boyz play pretty straight forward. Blast away and get lucky, then swamp them with your boyz and let your Nob kill everything. The vast number of attacks even the boyz get on the charge is also fun to roll, and will overwhelm even MEQ. ( my math says that a charging Ork kills 1/3 of a Marine )

You need to take away the two things that Boyz have, the Ork charge kill rate ( they will charge you ) and kill the nob first....

Chaos has two things that do that for us!

Plague Marines are optimal anti-boyz MEQ. Their higher toughness, plague grenades, and FnP reduce a charging Orks kill rate to 1/12 kill per boy, and their normal kill rate to 1/24 kills per boy! wow! Combined with fearless, the PMs will win in the end.

The kill the Nob, we have Lash!

I know, I know... the lash doesn't cause wounds... but the "Lash Conga Line (of Doom !)" is just made for picking out that annoying unit champion. Lash the ork boys, and arrange the Nob to be the model closest to you, and special weapon models in a line two inches apart streaming away from you, and then the boyz clustered around at least more than 12 inches from your rapid fire unit. Like this:

B B B B B
B B B B B B B Nob Your Shooty unit
B B B B B

When your shooty unit shoots the only valid targets are the Nob and any special weapon models you want to kill, and because you have to take casualties as to maintain unit coherency the Nob catches all the wounds, followed by the special weapon models.... Without them, boyz aren't really that good....

I have great luck in 500 point games with:

6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
1 Demon Prince of Slaneesh with wings and lash.

PS:
The conga line of doom is also very useful right before a charge as well. The DP lashes a unit, and charges into the Nob, killing him and finishes off the boyz, in short order.
 

·
Blood Axe
Joined
·
526 Posts
Plaguemarines will lose as long as that klaw nob is still swinging (looking at about 2 dead marines per turn even if the boyz do nothing), so yah..make sure to kill that nob asap. The only real strategy orks have against a lash is to have the nob as far back in the squad as possible and hope your lash roll is low enough such that you can't single him out like that. If your opponent leaves his nob at the front of the squad as it advances, kill it.

My recommendation: Noise Marines. Shoot them at range, and then you'll still have several attacks in close combat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Doom, Doom, Doom

Noise Marines would give you lots of dakka back at the orks, although I don't think it would as good a list against a generic opponent. But it would free up a few points for the most awesome template weapon ever: The Doom Siren!

6 NM w/ sonic blasters, AC with DOOM SIREN
6 NM w/ sonic blasters
Prince of Slaanesh with Lash and wings.

Shooty, Shooty and then Lash for the template of DOOM!

Heck, you can even charge after that if you need to.... ( blasters on low setting )

Or back up a turn to keep range... I like it.

shoot, lash them away; walk backwards and shoot, lash away; shoot what's left after lashing into place. Charge if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Although many probably don't like the idea, why not use some flamers? Or perhaps some lesser demons to go in and soften/tie up the guys you don't want near you right then. I would prefer the flamer, but everyone else has great ideas as well.
 

·
Level 20 Alpharius
Joined
·
320 Posts
The new Orks are really fun to play and play against. In low point games, the Big Mech with Shoc, and units of Boyz play pretty straight forward. Blast away and get lucky, then swamp them with your boyz and let your Nob kill everything. The vast number of attacks even the boyz get on the charge is also fun to roll, and will overwhelm even MEQ. ( my math says that a charging Ork kills 1/3 of a Marine )

You need to take away the two things that Boyz have, the Ork charge kill rate ( they will charge you ) and kill the nob first....

Chaos has two things that do that for us!

Plague Marines are optimal anti-boyz MEQ. Their higher toughness, plague grenades, and FnP reduce a charging Orks kill rate to 1/12 kill per boy, and their normal kill rate to 1/24 kills per boy! wow! Combined with fearless, the PMs will win in the end.

The kill the Nob, we have Lash!

I know, I know... the lash doesn't cause wounds... but the "Lash Conga Line (of Doom !)" is just made for picking out that annoying unit champion. Lash the ork boys, and arrange the Nob to be the model closest to you, and special weapon models in a line two inches apart streaming away from you, and then the boyz clustered around at least more than 12 inches from your rapid fire unit. Like this:

B B B B B
B B B B B B B Nob Your Shooty unit
B B B B B

When your shooty unit shoots the only valid targets are the Nob and any special weapon models you want to kill, and because you have to take casualties as to maintain unit coherency the Nob catches all the wounds, followed by the special weapon models.... Without them, boyz aren't really that good....

I have great luck in 500 point games with:

6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
1 Demon Prince of Slaneesh with wings and lash.

PS:
The conga line of doom is also very useful right before a charge as well. The DP lashes a unit, and charges into the Nob, killing him and finishes off the boyz, in short order.
I'd just like to go on record that this is blatant abuse of the rules in terms of sportsmanship, its clever (although that label is pushing it) but it'll only leave your ork opponent in a state of disrespect towards you as a player.
most important rule is to have fun, not to twin lash everything... that psychic power should be ridden of entirely as it breaches a key rule in unwritten player condition agreement, that is the law never to touch your opponents models, which this power pushes to the very limit of acceptable. Another less blatantly asinine rule is the deceiver's whisper which is more light to the rage center of the opponents brain as it only affects his deployment and doesn't forcibly pull his models out of their position AND let them get charged and put to fine dust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I'd just like to go on record that this is blatant abuse of the rules in terms of sportsmanship, its clever (although that label is pushing it) but it'll only leave your ork opponent in a state of disrespect towards you as a player.
most important rule is to have fun, not to twin lash everything... that psychic power should be ridden of entirely as it breaches a key rule in unwritten player condition agreement, that is the law never to touch your opponents models, which this power pushes to the very limit of acceptable. Another less blatantly asinine rule is the deceiver's whisper which is more light to the rage center of the opponents brain as it only affects his deployment and doesn't forcibly pull his models out of their position AND let them get charged and put to fine dust.
Hello Joy,

May I sum up your comments into 2 areas?

Lashing troop formations to provide advantage is unsportsmanlike. The game is about having fun; Lash makes me not have fun.

People touching my models make me mad.


I understand, and can agree in many ways. Lash, at its points cost, seems to be one of the most powerful abilities in the game right now. Is it the sniping that makes my example of using Lash unsportsmanlike or the ability to control the opponent’s models?
Range sniping, where you arrange your own troops so that only a subset of the opponents models in a unit are eligible for casualty removal, combined with line of sight sniping, where you intentionally block line of sight to a unit to restrict the eligible models for casualty removal, have been around for a while. Are these unsportsmanlike?


Kitted out Falcons, Assassins, psychic hoods, Fear of the Darkness, etc, are all really, really, annoying. I was wondering which of these are unsportsmanlike. I would like to declare pretty much everything Eldar have as unsportsmanlike. They should be banned.

I don’t touch other people’s models, unless they say it’s ok, or hand me one to look at. People put too many hours of blood, sweat, and tears into building and painting models for me to touch them. If I use Lash on a unit, the other guy can move the models, I don’t care. I wasn’t advocating malignly manhandling models. But dude… wow… do you let other people touch your dice, or does the magic go away? How do you play scenarios that allow you to control an opponents unit, or model, or even switch sides and play a second round? In the end, it is just a game.

I think a more powerful argument is in even using a Lash Prince in a 500 point game at all. It’s a little over the top. <begin music> I remember a time when it was only acceptable to field given ranges of % of the OOB, <25% HQ, >40% troops, <25% Heavy/Elite/Fast. The though of a Land Raider in a 500 point battle was mocked, when Chaos had a 45 point HQ, when I had Chaos veterans that could get two heavy weapons…. <end music>

In my defense, my first email was a little jaded. I just got out of a “friendly” 500 point tourney, where it was open knowledge that any twisted combination of Force Organization was allowed ,as long as you had 1 HQ and 2 Troops. The Lash worked quite well.

In “real” friendly games, I wouldn’t lash at all, until the assassin showed up, or the Falcon…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Great FAQ with the Lash

A new FAQ for Adapticon has been written to encourage general use and can be found at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/1183.page

One of its authors is yakface, the owner of dakkadakka.

In it, there is a clarification of the use of the Lash which is reasonable. I will use this going forward. The rest of the FAQ is very helpful and I think is a great guide for any group to adopt.

kb10r
"Yes, a Battleship can cloak"
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
351 Posts
Drop the plasma and take a missle launcher. Change one unit of marines into berzerkers and put them into a rhino. Loose the psyker and take a lord and put him with your marines. Loose the havoks and take a pred(auto/las.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
A new FAQ for Adapticon has been written to encourage general use and can be found at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/1183.page

For a few rules in there, IE: Chaos Terminators firing rapid fire weapons and Lash of submission, thats not so much of a FAQ on rules but more of a "rules we made up so things worked how we want them to". I'd prefer to use the actual rules then something someone else had made up to make themselves happy.
 

·
kinkeh secks pl0x?!
Joined
·
420 Posts
Honestly people, lets just calm it with regards to Lash,
Handbag, we all hate certain rules. I have a High Elf army that i now refuse to use because of there new rules.
But i don't go around getting upset about it,
Understandably i can tell that, especially you in this instance, do't like other people touching your models and this is fair enough. However, if you feel that this unwritten rule you speak of is enough to disallow someone constructing a competetive army then maybe you should just step back and look at what your doing.

With regards to your second unwritten rule, and that is to have fun, when playing people maybe you dont have the same atmosphere where me and my friends play. Many people use Lash, many don't (including myself) but not once is a word said about unsportsmanlike actions nor the touching of models. Maybe if your so adament that people don't touch your models you should write these rules down.

Don't get me wrong Handbag i understand what you are saying, but if you want to discuss the Lash discuss that, the rules, rather than the anger it enduces when someone swings the game in there favour.

- Tib
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
I wonder if people who don't like their models touched really have any fun in this game at all?
It is game, or at least that's what I've been lead to believe.
 

·
Blood Axe
Joined
·
526 Posts
I dunno, the listing they have for Lash could in fact be written as a RAW interpretation of lash: if a unit must be moved 2d6", nowhere does it say they can be moved less than that value, simply that they move that value. Thus, wouldn't each model have to move those 2d6", and thus you couldn't bunch or snipe?

After all, a ramshackle trukk that blows up with a 3-4 moves 3d6", not up to 3d6". A unit falls back 2d6", not up to 2d6".

Things that have a variable movement like a Mek Stompa's lifta droppa can drop within 24", so has a choice. There doesn't seem to be a choice in the matter with Lash.
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
I dunno, the listing they have for Lash could in fact be written as a RAW interpretation of lash: if a unit must be moved 2d6", nowhere does it say they can be moved less than that value, simply that they move that value. Thus, wouldn't each model have to move those 2d6", and thus you couldn't bunch or snipe?

After all, a ramshackle trukk that blows up with a 3-4 moves 3d6", not up to 3d6". A unit falls back 2d6", not up to 2d6".

Things that have a variable movement like a Mek Stompa's lifta droppa can drop within 24", so has a choice. There doesn't seem to be a choice in the matter with Lash.
Maybe, but i don't think it mentions a direction, thus you could move them forward backward, ECT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
I dunno, the listing they have for Lash could in fact be written as a RAW interpretation of lash: if a unit must be moved 2d6", nowhere does it say they can be moved less than that value, simply that they move that value. Thus, wouldn't each model have to move those 2d6", and thus you couldn't bunch or snipe?
Even doing this it's quite simple to snipe or bunch models. you just have to move them properly. But still, i don't mind going up against lash, nor do i have a problem using it. If someone doesn't want me to touch their models i'm quite happy to get them to move their models themselves just telling them what to do with them. ie: bunch that squad up over here will you, thanks.
 

·
Topic Creator Deluxe
Joined
·
2,146 Posts
Brother Tiberius wrote:
With regards to your second unwritten rule, and that is to have fun, when playing people maybe you dont have the same atmosphere where me and my friends play.
Your second unwritten rule, to have fun? Hey buddy, check out the "Most important rule" in the rulebook. It is very much written up, and it is the most important rule in the game.
 

·
kinkeh secks pl0x?!
Joined
·
420 Posts
if someone touching your models angers you, then maybe your playing the wrong game. I find it nice that people within my own community of gamers don't get offended other the touching of others models.

Also @ Mr. Wayne, i was referring and answering Handbags reply which said:
most important rule is to have fun, not to twin lash everything... that psychic power should be ridden of entirely as it breaches a key rule in unwritten player condition agreement, that is the law never to touch your opponents models, which this power pushes to the very limit of acceptable.
I misinterpreted the unwritten for both, for this i am sorry. However, I can't stand here and deem that the using of Lash breaches a 'unwritten' rule which has never existed in my 9 years of gaming. If someone is so adamant that people should not touch there models just don't play chaos. It really is that simple. 0:

It's written in the Codex, you can take it, ergo get over it.
-Tib
 

·
Blood Axe
Joined
·
526 Posts
Even doing this it's quite simple to snipe or bunch models. you just have to move them properly. But still, i don't mind going up against lash, nor do i have a problem using it. If someone doesn't want me to touch their models i'm quite happy to get them to move their models themselves just telling them what to do with them. ie: bunch that squad up over here will you, thanks.
If a large unit is spread out this would be impossible. Consider the 2d6" as if a fall-back move, but in whatever direction the chaos player chooses. So each model would move the 2d6" in the direction the chaos player wanted. Models at the end of a unit couldnt warp 14" to reach a pile, nor could a model move only 1" to stay clustered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
*Thread Jacked*

Thanks to those who a have commented on my predicament.

kb10r, heers for your 500 point list it is somthing i wil try in coming games, when fielding small squads i think the fearles special rule is just invaluable!

Gorfang, i have been tryin noise marines this last week and they are realy doing a nice job! they have fearless too which is lovely.

I think comments about general competativeness though are fair.

It would be nice to get some more comments from people who have played with or against the new orks, are you seeing the kind of strength i have experienced?

Cheers

Moon
 

·
Blood Axe
Joined
·
526 Posts
I'm glad to hear that the noise marines have been useful. Have you used dedicated multi-attack units like Beserkers or Possessed yet? I know that everyone says that possessed are worthless, but if you know that you're going up against Orks, I have a feeling that possessed should be dreadfully powerful. With a noise marine + CSM shooting core, a counterattack contingent of Zerks or possessed should finish off the stragglers.
 
1 - 20 of 62 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top