[Dave the Barbarian]

As far as rumors go, I think this latest one -as linked by the Karmoon above- is a lot more reasonable.

Deciding that one massive book of chaos for Fantasy and 40k, which wouldn't be compatible with any current rules is too much of a project, and that dates are getting pushed back sounds a lot more like GW to me.

They could just stick with the original plan, and get a daemon book for 40k, and everyone would be happy. No reason to muck up Fantasy for that.

If they would like to append the Fantasy rules to include some new daemon characters and whatnot, more power to them; there's just no reason to put out some giant hardcover book that would be pointless for a lot of Chaos players to serve that purpose.

If these new rumors are accurate, I'd be good with that.

 

[Urban Cannibal]

Anyway, I'm with Adeptjosh and Soul Reap; I want the Lost and the Damned back. I want a codex that I can use my 40K Beastmen models with. I've poured my heart into their backstory and converted models using pieces of my soul. It's not that I want to take them to any kind of official tournament, but I'd like to see that project reach some kind of fruition.

Count me in too. I don't really care if it's a combined book - it wouldn't make sense, but then so much of what GW do these days doesn't make sense (new Chaos Codex, I'm looking at you here).

But it would be nice to have a proper, everything in one place Codex for my lovingly converted 40k Beastmen. Yes, I have them too, complete with backstory that goes right back to the good old days when IG armies actually included them. What I would really REALLY love, although it isn't going to happen, is some decent rules for fielding large units of 40k cavalry (the kind that semi-feral LatD armies would probably happily use). It took me a lot of time (and money) to collect and convert 30 Gorkamorka muties...

 

[Tyfus]

No LATD is seems: (from warseer - rds8n)

"Well I was at the GT heat 2 event on the weekend and attended the "presentational seminar that wasn't"-- as it seemed Mr. Johnson, bless him, didn't actually have a password for the computer so we never got to see the powerpoint presentation for the ork stuff-- so he fielded a quick impromptu Q & A session. If anyone reading this was there I was/am the big mass o'hair and smouldering good looks who sat at the back with all the other cool kids. I specifically asked if there would be any crossover between the 2 books and was told NO, the 2 books will be entirelu independent. When i collared Mr. Johnson later and again the next day, whilst he couldn't say too much as the book is still very much under development currently there will be NO, ZERO,NADA L & D in it. It's a demon book with a lot of emphasis on the chaos pantheon and how they/it interacts. They're keen to expound upon the chaos element of the Warhammer games as that is the "very essence, the hook" of Warhammer games. The talk was then briefly drowned out by Mr. Moorcock's lawyers falling over each other in haste to get to court."

 

[NiteRabbit]

That really is a shame. I still hold on to hope, though, that Daemons will not be so expensive that they cannot be used to represent mutants or heretics dedicated to their respective gods. Oh yeah, this is also contingent on Daemons not being summoned to the battlefield, though if you take a look at Dawn of War, apparently all of the forces of Chaos live in the Warp and can be summoned to any planet. Even cultists. I still maintain that there is a bright side to all of this, and that is that the Imperial Guard can still be adapted to fit any mob of traitors and heretics. Well, I suppose it won't be a mob as such, but close enough. Besides, if you think about it, the LatD list is actually mostly Guard anyway.

 

[Adeptjosh]

With such a abundance of fluff and practical need I just can't beleive Gw would turn thier back on any kinda of LATD, forge world already printed a book with traitor gaurd for the love of pete!

After the success of book series like Gaunts ghost and the recent fluff on the Voscani cataphracts, we as players deserve some sort of offical List for our Non-Astartes chaos legions. Gw really can't tease us with one list and then just say thier won't be any kinda of follow up. Besides without the cultist , traitors and mutant hordes thier wouldn't be much for the inquisition to do but stand around and purge each other.

They really should include a New LATD list into the future range and codex plans if for no other reason than it fits the fluff.

Not one to stir the pot and rant , I heard that the current rumor mill has mentioned strong possibility of a 40k version of the " dogs of war " book may be in the works. Also I have noticed a Oddity in my copy of Apocalypse , On the bottom of pg 171 there are a few deamon types that are mentioned that I have definatly never heard of and Since these books were written to be forwardly compatible.... hmmmm....

 

[Urban Cannibal]

Bear in mind, guys, that like all GW releases it's going to depend on whether they have a new range of shiny miniatures to promote. If not, then they won't expend any time or effort just to accommodate us gamers. Very little profit there. New daemon minis means a daemon-only codex.

I've given up on the idea of having a tournament-legal LatD force, but it's actually not hard to use bits of the various lists available to assign stats to whatever you have in your army, if you mainly play friendly games against opponents who care more about the game than the rules. I recommend getting hold of a copy of Imperial Armour 5 - The Siege of Vraks. Combining elements of the renegades in there (the Ogryn Berzerkers are especially nice) with the old Eye of Terror list, plus the IG codex and the Death Korps of Krieg, and you can put together a good army list for more or less any traitor/cultist force.

 

[Soul Reap]

Man, I hate to see such a good thing as LAtD go, but yeah, I can use the imperial guard codex for that. This just gives me an opportunity to convert me up a crazy chaos command squad.8XAhh, I can imagine it now.

So, I guess I'll do what NiteRabbit suggested. A very good idea.

 

[zuke174]

I still maintain that there is a bright side to all of this, and that is that the Imperial Guard can still be adapted to fit any mob of traitors and heretics. Well, I suppose it won't be a mob as such, but close enough. Besides, if you think about it, the LatD list is actually mostly Guard anyway.

What about the mutants? All those creepy, gribbly mutants with their wicked powers and such? Sure, we could still have the non-Astartes Chaos legions, but what about the non-human legions?

I stand by my original plan: check out the book when it comes out, and make my decision then. Meanwhile, I use the original LatD list. I don't play official tournaments anyway; I like the friendly game, and I like the hobby, so I'll continue converting my force.

Who knows? Maybe if they're going to go the way of the Dogs of War, we'll see a new downloadable list in the future.

 

[MindRaked]

What about the mutants? All those creepy, gribbly mutants with their wicked powers and such? Sure, we could still have the non-Astartes Chaos legions, but what about the non-human legions?

I stand by my original plan: check out the book when it comes out, and make my decision then. Meanwhile, I use the original LatD list. I don't play official tournaments anyway; I like the friendly game, and I like the hobby, so I'll continue converting my force.

Who knows? Maybe if they're going to go the way of the Dogs of War, we'll see a new downloadable list in the future.

It's still quite easy to play with the current (or old as some say) LatD list. The stats for aspiring champions are independent from the codex. The Imperial Guard codex is still the same, so still legal. The only thing you lose is the elements from the chaos codex, but there are still some way to do it :

- Greater Daemons are still greater daemons, so nothing change here except the cost. There might be some players taht won't like thsoe, so you might want tot stick with AC.
- Possessed are still possessed, but I bet no one used those anyway.
- Daemon packs can be replaced by the actual summoned daemons (they aren't better so no one will care).
- You lose daemonic beasts, so what, big deal, did any one used it anyway??
- Defiler is still availlable and did not change so much, most players will be happy because they can't indirect fire anymore, so go for it.
- The chaos spawns rules are explained in the latd list, so there is no conflict.

The only point that can lead to confusion is the allied units from the chaos codex. Here, I would advise against using them as this might cause some polemic. Otherwise, everything is still pretty usable.

 

[Moonwatcher]

Just Got home from our local GW store where i was speaking to the store manager about the relese date of the daemon codex.

He told me with some certainty, the release date is APRIL 2008!

jan = orks
feb = a lotr army begining with 'm'
march = vampires
April = daemons!

i dont know if this is old news for some of you, but any extra info is good info imo.

i asked 1 further question about the models, 'if they will be releasing new greater daemons?'

i got a cryptic answer - he knows the answer, but is not allowed to tell, so he said, "all i can say is 'have you noticed FW are producing a range of daemon/daemon prices recently?'"

quite what this means im unsure, however my first thought is no GW wont be making new greater daemons, they will be doing a duel release of models with FW?

id be interested to hear your thoughts on this too.

 

[VagueMonkey]

"feb = a lotr army begining with 'm'"

just for record, the lotr army is Mahud. its like a new type of Haradrim. as for the forgeworld greater daemon minis, im still waiting 4 the lord of change, as i have a 4000pt army of tzeentch daemons

 

[Ilkar]

I'd be surprised if there wern't any cultists (guardsman statline with cc weaps? old Alpha legion?) to summon the daemons in one way or another. Nothing major, a troops choice with a variant or two, something for the greater daemon to possess. However, lesser daemons or beasts could get a more free deep strike so that most of your army arn't tied to fragile cultists. Buy icons that are placed on the ground and are immobile, maybe.

Having said that, the new daemons could change everything. Who knows.

As for the greater daemon/fw thing, maybe they could release the current greater daemons in plastic through gw. They did it with the baneblade, although I guess that was a pretty safe choice with the number of people who could use one. Smurfs, guard, chaos, sisters, daemonhunters, even orks with a little conversion. Again, who knows.

Disclaimer: all from my imagination, no rumours or anything.

 

[Lord Ramon]

Firstly, I miss my Word Bearers, and the variety of the Daemons, as they where prior to the new Chaos Codex.

However, it has to be said that the same Daemons in WFB where point-for-point, better than in 40k. With that in mind, I'd already written up my retake of all the Daemons and sent it off to GW.

Here's a very brief outline on my take on the older deamons

• Bloodletters – Fielded, popular and well regarded
• Plaguebearers – Universally disliked. I’ve rarely seen them fielded.
• Horrors – Almost never fielded, other than as occasionally as padding for Flamers. Universally ignored.
• Flamers – Fielded, especially in Thousands Sons. Well liked.
• Daemonettes – Regularly fielded and well regarded.
• Flesh Hounds - Never fielded and universally ignored.
• Screamers – Fielded rarely in Thousands Sons. Universally ignored.
• Furies – Fielded, and 50/50 respected/disliked. It seems that the more experienced commanders love these guys.
• Mounted Daemonettes – Occasionally fielded, and 50/50 respected/disliked.

Daemon Points Costs
• Bloodletters: I made these guys slightly undercosted, and therefore well worth their points.
• Plaguebearers: Overcosted by 2 points.
• Horrors: Overcosted by 3-4 points.
• Flamers: Points fine.
• Daemonettes: Overcosted by 1-2 points.
• Flesh Hounds: Overcosted by 1-2 points.
• Screamers: Points fine.
• Furies: I made these guys well undercosted, and therefore well worth their points.
• Mounted Daemonettes – points technically fine.

Plaguebearers had two problems. Firstly most players disliked the previous version of Nurgle’s Rot for obvious reasons, i.e. it hurts their own guys too. Secondly, as it is, Daemonic Venom is wasted on them. With S4 they already wound most of all their opponents on 3-4s. In WFB Plaguebearers have Cloud of Flies, which makes them much more useful.

In WFB Daemonettes move faster than foot troops. My take would be to give them Fleet.

Screamers should have the USR Hit and Run.

As many of you know, in WFB there is a wholly Daemonic army list, with great new Daemons in it. These being essentially cavalry versions of Bloodletters, Daemonettes (different from Mtd Daemonettes), Plaguebearers and Flamers (on Discs of Tzeentch). There are also new Daemonic HQs in those lists. Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers etc also got Champions.

Although it's unlikely that our CSMs will get to use all of this, just a revamp of our previous Daemons will do. I used Furies all the time (with good success I might add), along with Mtd Daemonettes and Bloodletters.

Out of interest, what a pain in the XXX that a CSM Lord with no Mark, can not have a Daemonic Steed. It wouldn't have been difficult to give them a Steed.

As I understand it, it is common with rewrites to have figures (and units?) who become useless with the new Codex. Autocannon Havocs being a case in point. I'm glad I kept using mostly MLs. My units of Khorne Chosen Aspirings on Daemonic Steeds are now relagated to posh looking Bikers. Ah well..... As is my (Undivided) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Steed.

Let's just hope that GW allow us some variety for our Summoned Daemons.

Lord Ramon

 

[Urban Cannibal]

Firstly, I miss my Word Bearers, and the variety of the Daemons, as they where prior to the new Chaos Codex.

...

Out of interest, what a pain in the XXX that a CSM Lord with no Mark, can not have a Daemonic Steed. It wouldn't have been difficult to give them a Steed.

As I understand it, it is common with rewrites to have figures (and units?) who become useless with the new Codex. Autocannon Havocs being a case in point. I'm glad I kept using mostly MLs. My units of Khorne Chosen Aspirings on Daemonic Steeds are now relagated to posh looking Bikers. Ah well..... As is my (Undivided) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Steed.

This has always been my point. It was especially galling this time, having very nearly finished an elaborate conversion for a Chaos Undivided Lord on a steed, to find that he was no longer in the list, for no good reason I could see (other than the usual - there won't be a shiny new miniature coming out).

My "new" codex is gathering dust on a shelf. I might put it on eBay if I can be bothered. In the meantime, I'll stick with the previous edition, deamons and all, and not bother trying to enter any tournaments.

Let's just hope that GW allow us some variety for our Summoned Daemons.

To be brutally honest, I don't give a rat's *** for what GW are prepared to "allow" any more. As a long-time collector and gamer, they've done this to me once too often now. Anyone remember the blurb in Rogue Trader, that went along the lines of "Feel free to change the rules if you like. It's your game, you paid for it, enjoy it as you want to!"? I'll be sticking with that as a philosophy now. I hope some others do too - not that GW will notice or care.

I'm genuinely sorry to have to sound so negative. GW went through a period a while back when they honestly seemed to be listening to gamers as well as the bulging-walleted parents bringing Junior to the store on Sunday mornings. Then all the "old guard" went one by one, apart from Jervis, and now things are very different (unless you play the specialist games, which are still run mostly for hobbyists, to GW's credit). Maybe things will change back again, but I can't see it.

 

[Spook2k5]

"feb = a lotr army begining with 'm'"

just for record, the lotr army is Mahud. its like a new type of Haradrim. as for the forgeworld greater daemon minis, im still waiting 4 the lord of change, as i have a 4000pt army of tzeentch daemons

I was surprised the new apoc-forgeworld book didn't have any tzeentch daemon lord, personally. Maybe because they don't have a fancy-model for it, but they don't have a fancy model for the plaguebearer baneblade varient either to be technical.

I, a non-chaos player, found it weird because there's already a nice, established bad-ass tzeentch lord of change lord in the form of M'kachen or however you spell his name, the eternal foe of Captain Stern.

For my part, I'm hoping the new codex gives more...mortal...chaos worshippers as well as daemons and the like. I'd like turning the flamers of my gals and my laud hailers on folks who aren't in power armor and ridiculously sure of themselves.

 

[Karmoon]

To be brutally honest, I don't give a rat's *** for what GW are prepared to "allow" any more. As a long-time collector and gamer, they've done this to me once too often now. Anyone remember the blurb in Rogue Trader, that went along the lines of "Feel free to change the rules if you like. It's your game, you paid for it, enjoy it as you want to!"? I'll be sticking with that as a philosophy now. I hope some others do too - not that GW will notice or care.

I think this is a very positive message.

This is and should be a creative hobby by it's very nature. I too remember bits of the rogue trader encouraging you to create your own vehicles and the like.

So, it's our hobby, let's do what we like with it.

Sure, we won't be able to play in tournaments.. but... to be honest, that also is a good thing, as they're the people who aren't any fun to play against and even less fun to hang out with.

@ Lord Ramon

I have to disagree with daemonic venom being useless. If you make them basic S4 then they would truly be rubbish, and unable to do anything. When you have a wraithlord or carnifex around, a squad of plague bearers can really turn the tide of battle. It's a unique skill which has to be used properly, but is REALLY good when you get it right

 

[Willance]

I too belive that GW is trying to dum down the game so that younger kids will play and feel that they have a chance. After reading som of the latest White Dwarfs I'm con vinsed that they are just using it to sell Models.

I don't play chaos but feel that they might get D***ed by this in the long run.

 

[Renosaurus]

Recently in the local GW shop, I was talking to an employe there, who has also feld he wonderfull powers of the Warp. He is the one who told me about Codex: Deamons.
He is really enthousiastic, and can barly(don't know how to spell it) wait.

now, I don't know how many info on the codex has been released to GW employe's, but if he's SO enthousiastic about it, I have good reason to hope for some nice deamons for us

I want my mounted deamonettes and deamonic strength back;?

 

[Adeptjosh]

I too belive that GW is trying to dum down the game so that younger kids will play and feel that they have a chance. After reading som of the latest White Dwarfs I'm con vinsed that they are just using it to sell Models.

I don't play chaos but feel that they might get D***ed by this in the long run.

If that was really true , Chaos spawn and possesed would have been a lot better ;Y
There are some big changes a-foot in the great Citidel of GW, This series of nerfs hopefully have a methode behind the madness. Having played since the RT days I can say I have never been too disapointed in the next big thing.

 

[Inquisitor_Tolheim]

Anyone remember the blurb in Rogue Trader, that went along the lines of "Feel free to change the rules if you like. It's your game, you paid for it, enjoy it as you want to!"?

Yep. In fact, most of the old hands to the game live by this mantra. My gaming club has a set of house rules and scenarios we've developed specifically because some of the latest GW offerings have been sub-par (in our opinions). Apocalypse seems to particularly encourage this line of thinking, allowing players to create their own datasheets and whatnot. At the end of the day there isn't a GW employee breathing down your neck during every phase and demanding that you play with the RAW, so why do it. In GW's own words, the first rule is to have fun. Everything else comes second to that.