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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If a unit enters a building and some members are upstairs and others downstairs, How is squad Coherency worked out?

If coherency is base to base then in most buildings the squad will break coherency.

Lets say the levels are 3" apart. So is the coherency measured from the head of the downstairs guy to base of the upstairs guy?


On a similar note;
The building a also difficult terrain and levels are 3" apart.
Turn 1 you roll 1" in difficult terrain - you can't move downstairs.
Turn 2 you roll 2" in difficult terrain - you still can't move downstairs. OR can you "carry over" the 1" from turn1?
 

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nougat said:
If a unit enters a building and some members are upstairs and others downstairs, How is squad Coherency worked out?

If coherency is base to base then in most buildings the squad will break coherency.

Lets say the levels are 3" apart. So is the coherency measured from the head of the downstairs guy to base of the upstairs guy?


On a similar note;
The building a also difficult terrain and levels are 3" apart.
Turn 1 you roll 1" in difficult terrain - you can't move downstairs.
Turn 2 you roll 2" in difficult terrain - you still can't move downstairs. OR can you "carry over" the 1" from turn1?
by the rules, you measure base to base. Plain and simple.

Most people don't care about the vertical distance, but if you want to be a hard ass, then 2" from base to base, meaning they must all go up or stay down.

And movement doesn't carry over. Otherwise I could hide my unit in cover for 3 turns then charge 36".
 

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That really depends! The Cityfight Rules state; a unit have a coherency within 4" in the same building, but only models in the SAME building... also a model starting its move within 2" of a elevator or ladder may be placed within any 2" 'get of point' for that lift or ladder, and to add to that the bonus the messurement between the 'get in/off' points are free in the eyes of Coherency...

Rules are in Codex Battlezone: Cityfight page 8 and 9...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't have cityfight and we aren't playing that as such. But just regular rules with the occasional building. So only the normal rules should apply.

I think that vertical coherency should just not exist and players make things reasonable as Tarzen suggests.

Obviously if the squad walk to the bottom of a 12" tower and a heavy weapon crew are just instantly at the top and still in coherency (leaving the others on ground floor) then that is just not right.
 

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in the sence of normal rules yes... As there is no buildings, there is only terrain... Also for the 12" stairs; maybe there is a lift, also they have to START there movement within 2"... in Cityfight they also sugest that a very long ladder (as 12" would be) may take 2 or more turns to climb...
But if you ONLY whant the 'normal' rules there is no buildings, only terrain...:|

EY POST NUMBER 100!
 

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Don't start including the CityFight rules as they are completely optional and most people don't use them. I've tried and failed many times to incorporate them into discussions as I feel they clear a lot of things up with LOS and movement in 40k.

The rules in the BGB states that a model can move both 6" forward and 6" up in a single turn. Damage to a building affects all models in the building in the same manner. The BGB classifies all buildings the same, as if they had only one level. If you treat all buildings as bunkers then you won't have any trouble. However, this isn't very realistic. For realism you have to incorporate the CityFight rules.

40k Rules:
All buildings are treated as a single story structure, even if they have multiple stories
1/2 the models in a building can shoot per turn
The building will protect all models within it
Models get cover saves for being in a bunker when shot at
All models within the same building are always in coherency
 

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I agree with Lord Creampuff. When I play with buildings using the regular BBB rules we basically count them as bunkers and allow the standard 6" horizontal, 6" vertical movement. As far as measuring distance to target we measure from a birdseye view (i.e. from where the model's base would be on the tabletop) and LOS based on terrain level (i.e. 1st floor level 1, 2nd floor level 2, etc.). Whether this is Tourney legal I don't know, but that's how we do it. We also discuss shooting/movement rules for buildings before the game starts so there is no confusion midgame.
Using Cityfight rules is also an option, particularly if your board will have many buildings of differing heights. For ease of gameplay we usually just spell out the level heights of any buildings beforehand and don't use the actual physical height of the terrain piece since our selection is limited.
An example - we have a few towers made of plastic tubes that are about 8" high in reality. We count them as level 2 terrain that is 6" high so that models moving into them (embarking into a vehicle style) are allowed to go to the top in the turn they enter it.
 

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LordCreampuff said:
40k Rules:
All buildings are treated as a single story structure, even if they have multiple stories
1/2 the models in a building can shoot per turn
The building will protect all models within it
Models get cover saves for being in a bunker when shot at
All models within the same building are always in coherency
Care to give page refs for any of these? Just curious.
 

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I think we are talking in-house rules there.

Cityfight asside, the rule book, as stated above, treats all buildings as terrain.

The assumption is, if you are ussing buildings of any large size (eg 6 stories high) you would use cityfight, without it you are using rules that really dont cater for it, consider a unit of 2 guys, the basic rules state they ust stay within 2 uinches horizontally, however if one is on the 6the floor, 3 ft above the other, then clearly there aint much chance of coherancy.
 

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tarzen said:
Care to give page refs for any of these? Just curious.
They are the standard rules for bunkers. I'll search when I get a chance and give page refs. The rules are a bit scattered.
 

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tarzen said:
Care to give page refs for any of these? Just curious.
p. 17 BBB - There is a photo of a model moving up a building. It doesn't mention coherency though. There is a passage entitled "Moving Up & Down" also.

p.21 BBB - the last paragraph on the page addresses LOS from higher terrain.

p.25 BBB - There is a "Cover Summary Table" which addresses area terrain cover saves and height ranges.

p.193 BBB - The rules for bunkers are here.

There is one correction to what Lord creampuff said - inside of a bunker you can have a model shoot out for each vision slit or 1" of continuous slit. Potentially an entire squad could shoot out of the bunker if there are enough slits facing the target unit.
 

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To further throw a monkeywrench into things, what about things like towers and tower-ish structures(which I do see a lot)

Can you place some guys on the top of the tower and some at the base (assume it;s more than 6" from the base to the guys upstairs)?

Secondly, say you had that unit upon deployment (assuming it's legal). Now, are the guys up top "stuck" up there because it's more than 6" from the top of the tower to the bottom? What happens if they fail a leadership test? Do they die because they can't retreat (blocked escape route)? If they get assaulted, do they guys below get assaulted but not the guys above? You see how messy this is getting???
 

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40k Rules:
All buildings are treated as a single story structure, even if they have multiple stories
1/2 the models in a building can shoot per turn
The building will protect all models within it
Models get cover saves for being in a bunker when shot at
All models within the same building are always in coherency
Lord Malachi said:
p. 17 BBB - There is a photo of a model moving up a building. It doesn't mention coherency though. There is a passage entitled "Moving Up & Down" also.

p.21 BBB - the last paragraph on the page addresses LOS from higher terrain.

p.25 BBB - There is a "Cover Summary Table" which addresses area terrain cover saves and height ranges.

p.193 BBB - The rules for bunkers are here.

There is one correction to what Lord creampuff said - inside of a bunker you can have a model shoot out for each vision slit or 1" of continuous slit. Potentially an entire squad could shoot out of the bunker if there are enough slits facing the target unit.

Ummm, the rules never say units in a bunker are in coherency...
Also, no where does it say anything about 1/2 the squad shooting, as you point out LM, it's one model per 1" slit.
Also, it never says they are treated as a single story. Otherwise if you moved into the bottom of an area terrain size 3 building, you'd count as size three for firing and LOS.

Seems you're taking a lot of liberties without actual quotes.
As to the cover saves, yes, as area terrain provides that anyways. Just as if you have 1/2 your squad in a bunker or normal area terrain.

Again, by the letter of the rules, its base to base measurement, meaning bases must be within 2" whether they are higher or lower, side to side. If you have 2 squads in two levels of a building, by your statement, they cannot be above/below one another as it counts as a single story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So what I'm getting is that basically you need to discuss and decide with opponent how it will all work for each building you have, as homemade ones will always have little quirks to them.

On another note; take the ruined gothic building kit. Lets say that you can go underneath the ruined first storey floor. So there can be two guys on top of each other.
If a blast weapon hits the squad it is possible to land it on ground level just 1mm away from the broken upper level. In this case the template will cover upstairs and downstairs. Do you treat the template as a dome to see who gets hit? or is the blast confined to a single level? Obviously the dome couldn't go through a solid floor but shrapnel could go hit a guy right near the edge of a floor.

What about flamers flaming up a level? - or even regular shooting (at a very close range!!)? cover from the projected line of the floor slab?
Shooting from above ignores cover?

Buildings just complicate things to no end. But they add extra coolness to a game.
 

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nougat said:
So what I'm getting is that basically you need to discuss and decide with opponent how it will all work for each building you have, as homemade ones will always have little quirks to them.
rules are pretty clear, just getting confused by everyones posting of house rules.
On another note; take the ruined gothic building kit. Lets say that you can go underneath the ruined first storey floor. So there can be two guys on top of each other.
If a blast weapon hits the squad it is possible to land it on ground level just 1mm away from the broken upper level. In this case the template will cover upstairs and downstairs. Do you treat the template as a dome to see who gets hit?
By the rules, yes

or is the blast confined to a single level?[/quote] by the rules, no
Obviously the dome couldn't go through a solid floor but shrapnel could go hit a guy right near the edge of a floor.
fluff, and not part of the rules. If a model is fully covered by blast, hit, if partial 4+ hit. Simple as that.
What about flamers flaming up a level?
end of the templete against your models base, and kapow, anything under of nicked is hit.
- or even regular shooting (at a very close range!!)?
6" rule for area terrain. if your shooting travels through more than 6", you don't have LOS.
cover from the projected line of the floor slab?
again, covered in the rules, if you have intervening area terrain, or both occupy the same area terrain, you get the cover.
Shooting from above ignores cover?
common house rule, but not in the rules.
Buildings just complicate things to no end. But they add extra coolness to a game.
They don't complicate things at all, as long as you play but what the rules say. Or, you can try and house rule them. But, as you can see from what others have posted, it certainly opens up a can of worms, when the rules are pretty simple.
 

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Buildings have never presenteed much of an issue in games I've played, and I tend to use building alot since I like Cityfight. I've consented with my opponent a few times to use some cityfight rules for some buildings for the sake of realism, but most building play fine with the regular rules.

I've always wondered, is there a limit to how high in a building units are allowed to set up in the beginning of the game? I have come across games where a person with long range weaponry can gain a big advantage by setting up a strong shooting unit high in the building where it is very difficult to assualt onto.

A house rule me and my group uses is that infiltrators can set up high in a building, but otherwise normal units can only set up 1 story above ground. Is there an official rule for this?
 

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Ebon Hand said:
Buildings have never presenteed much of an issue in games I've played, and I tend to use building alot since I like Cityfight. I've consented with my opponent a few times to use some cityfight rules for some buildings for the sake of realism, but most building play fine with the regular rules.

I've always wondered, is there a limit to how high in a building units are allowed to set up in the beginning of the game? I have come across games where a person with long range weaponry can gain a big advantage by setting up a strong shooting unit high in the building where it is very difficult to assualt onto.

A house rule me and my group uses is that infiltrators can set up high in a building, but otherwise normal units can only set up 1 story above ground. Is there an official rule for this?
No rule what-so-ever.

They had a nice work around in second ed, just shoot the hell out of the building. If you pene'd it, it was destroyed, and killed all models in it=) Killed a whole army of marines that were slaughtering me with a single asscannon salvo "Ok, I'm gonna fire at the building" "which unit" "no, the building. Armour is X, I need to roll X or better. Oh look, my luck! You're dead, no saves" ...silence, what a nice sound=)
 
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