Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK, first a Disclaimer. I am not using the real Codex, as that isn't out yet. Also, I have NOT played the new Tyranids at all. This is mostly to be taken as a theorycrafting excercise, and to see how I like the new units before and after I playtest them.
Of course, all comments are welcome.

HQ

TYRANT
I really think this is a good unit, but with a completely different mission from the old codex. I'd probably use it with a Heavy BS or VC, maybe regenerate, and Tactical Insight if your list calls for it. Wings are no longer worth it IMHO, nor required. This should be a long range unit, holding your home objective or advancing with your slower lines. The Psychic Powers I'd probably take are Mental Scream and Nerve Shock. Life Drain can be really good against weaker units, as it really helps you get back those wounds, and can be taken over Mental Scream.

SWARMLORD
It really seems too expensive to me. It takes too long for this to get anywhere, and isn't that much better than a normal Hive Tyrant. It would be much better if it could take a Spore, but from what I know it can't. 280 points that have to walk everywhere is a juicy target, so it could be used to bring fire away from other things. If I took one, I'd no doubt give it a Tyrant Guard, or make sure he's behind another MC giving it cover.

TYRANT GUARD
I've always liked these guys. However, they don't seem to stop the Tyrant from being specifically targeted in close combat, so they've gone down in value (***this was more than likely an incorrectassumption on my part, they probably DO protect the Tyrant from being targeted, so there value goes back up***). But they can use Boneswords, so they're better in CC now, plus they don't seem to need to be with the Tyrant. This means they can walk with him to provide wounds versus enemy fire, then go target something else when they get close enough to fight.

TERVIGON
Expensive, but very good (and really a Troops choice). Giving stuff FNP is useful, but you have to remember the limitations it has (useless if the atack ignores your armor or causes ID). It CAN help prevent the mass orks or similar that don't have power weapons deal a few wounds by saturation, however. Mostly for protecting your Mcs, until a unit of critters gets into close combat. Speaking of critters, the spawning ability is really nifty, even if geting doubles is MUCH easier than most people imagine, so don't expect them to spawn too much of an army At around 16 gaunts created on average per game that's like saying this costs around 80-ish points less that listed. Or in other words, that your 1500 point list can be anything between 1600 and 1800. That's a very good advantage.

ALPHA WARRIOR
The cheapest HQ in the book (and one of the cheapest HQs all around), this isn't half bad. Giving a Warrior Brood +1 BS and WS is very, very important. Give it a pair of Boneswords and a Deathspitter, and you'll have a durable unit that can kill pretty much anything in close combat. Adrenal Glands are a good idea too, since then it will strike before most cheap ICs, making sure you get the kill without fear of retribution. Toxin Sacs are worse than the Glands, as those give you higher initiative, and S5-6 means you'll wound most enemies on a 4+ or better anyways.

THE PARASITE OF MORTREX
This is an interesting HQ choice, but it requires you to give it some company (both Gargoyles and Flying Rippers will do nicely). I don't really expect it to create rippers, but if it does that's great. I don't know how well it'll play, but I do know I want to try it out.

ELITES

HIVE GUARD
Sure, they cost quite a lot each, but these are really one of the best units you can hope for. They excel at popping transports, and can hide behind your MCs or other creatures since they don't need LOS. That and two T6 wounds means they will be very durable if you just take a little care of them. 4-6 of these in 2-3 units are all you need to open those nasty vehicles to get to the juicy morsels inside.

LICTORS
Unexciting, but a very cheap +1 to reserves. If you are DS heavy or plan to keep reserves a lot, feel free to pick one. What reallly hurts this is it fights with many other good units for the Elite FOC slots.

DEATHLEAPER
Fun, but very expensive. the -D3 LD can make some nasty enemies easier to deal with, but mostly it'll be very useful against psykers. Plus it's hard to shoot at, and can zip across the map thanks to his special redeployment DS. So fun. But Expensive. Did I say that already? I think the best this has for it is that it can help counter enemy psykers, specifically those with Jaws of the Wolf World. Note that, as noted by Tyr, this is a Unique named Lictor, so no fielding multiples.

VENOMTHROPE
This guy is so very vulnerable. Keep him hidden, or pretty much anything will kill him. Getting 4+ covers in 5th ed is so easy I'm not sure this is worth the points. (***looking back into this one, for a few points and a kill point virtually he gives your MCs 33% more wounds, very good if you plan to have some big guys walk to battle. In fact, I'd dare say that if he's helping 10+ MC wounds he's worth the points, even if he does nothing actively the whole game. Of course, that's just a guesstimate***)

ZOANTHROPES
Veeery good. The invulnerable saves means they won't be easy to bring down. Two of these in a Spore are a very good tough-ish anti-tank portable synapse node that you can place where it will hurt your enemy the most, and quite cheaply too. Sure, some concentrated fire (and mostly a close combat assault) will bring them down, but they should get their points back first. Two in a Spore and two pairs of Hive Guard seem like very, very good Elite choices for cheap.

THE DOOM OF MALAN'TAI
I really hate this guys can't Warp Lance/Blast. I'd gladly pay a higher price for that. But as it stands, this isn't half bad. Soul Sucker has a very short range, but you can deploy this to drain enemies that are fighting your other units so he'll stay out of trouble. Just be careful with this guy, as a single Missile Launcher or Melta shot will kill it off. Then again, he has a 3+ invulnerable, so yeah. Fun times. There's so many good Elite options in the new codex, I love it! I can imagine this could be really good in a list with Genestealers and maybe Deathleapers.

PYROVORE
Useless? It can drop on a Spore and flame any kind of troop away, but it seems that it will just die soon afterwatds. With so many better choices in the Elites, I'd skip this.

YMGARL GENESTEALERS
If I play these, I'd do it on a minimum 5-dude brood, as you risk not being able to get them into play otherwise. Choose the extra attack, and assault away. That should give you 20 attacks to deal with something troublesome. However, choosing the cover correctly is crucial. The main problem is that, being weaker than a SM, odds are that they won't fare well if their target survives the initial attack. Make sure you weaken the target first if it's about as strong as the unit, or target vehicles (as 20 S6 rending attacks on rear armor can cut anything open, even Land Raiders). At the cost of a Vindicator for a unit of 5, mid-heavy tanks are probably the best target, as they can't fight back and will take heavy damage.

TROOPS

WARRIORS
There are some very interesting troop choices indeed, and this is one of them. A unit of 6 is about as tough as a 10-squad of SMs, albeit more vulnerable to S8+ weapons. However, they are somewhat expensive. I'd always give them Deathspitters for the extra strength, unless you plan to make them CC oriented. Mixing both makes the cost very prohibitive. They can take Spores, meaning CC Warriors won't have to run all the way, and shooty ones can deploy where they will deal the most damage and avoid incoming fire until they get into range. The VC seems much better than a BS, even with the smaller pie.

GENESTEALERS
They can no longer improve their armor, but still are good choices. A unit of outflanking GSs or two will help boost the power of your army, and keep the enemy on his toes. This also means I wouldn't get a Spore for them, since they already have a way to get there. Add a Trygon Alpha to the mix and these guys can appear anywhere you want on the map.

LANDING SPORE
I really don't know if this counts as a troop and can hence contest or hold objectives. However, it is very vulnerable to high-S weapons, because it only has T4 and being an MC it will be hard to give it cover. Of course there's no model for it, but I'm not evil enough to make a small spore to claim easy cover. It has BS2, so I'd give it, if at all, a pie weapon. Thorn Blast seems by far the best option to me, as it combines low cost, good strength and a large blast. The mediocre range isn't an issue in a Spore, as you'll place it pretty much wherever you want.

TERMAGAUNTS
They let you buy Tervigons as Troop choices, what more do you want? A unit of these and a Tervigon mean two troop choices that can hold their own. If you get 20 Termas, and place them in a barebones Spore, they will avoid the early game pies that tend to wreak havoc on units such as these. This will probably be the default Troop combination you'll face.

HORMAGAUNTS
More expensive than Termas, and they have no cool MC daddy to look over them. Termagaunst are about as good on the assault with a Tervigon buffing them, but if you don't WANT Tervigons, then this isn't a bad choice. But then I'd probably take Genestealers or Warriors.

RIPPERS
No. They can't hold objectives (swarms can't in 5th edition rules), so it's a waste of a slot. A pity, because Forgeworld has AWESOME ripper swarms, but Flying Rippers are just so much better.

FAST ATTACK

WINGED WARRIORS
These seem really good, until you realise you can just give normal Warriors a pod for the same cost, and have them count as troops. Plus that way an Alpha Warrior can join them. Probably the best use for them is as mobile Synapse, since they are much cheaper than a Flyrant.

RAVENER
Cheap, but weak and underwhelming at first glance. The do dish out a lot of attacks, but for the price of a brood of these you can probably get some Gensetealers as Troops. IMHO that's what really kills them, having a Troop choice that is probably much better. Of course, a small group of these (say, 3 or 4) shouldn't draw TOO much attention, so they may be useful. As Zarathustra kindly pointed out they are the only beasts in the new Nid codex, so they alsoo have that going for them.

FLYING RIPPERS
Rippers, but they fly. Good cover for your flying Synapse creatures, or wounds for the Parasite of Mortrex. BUT the majority rule would give the parasite T3, so they work better as cover.

GARGOYLES
Not only are the miniatures great, but they are really decent units. Definitely a unit to consider if you want to rule the skies... with little dudes. They are cheap and expendable, something rare for a Fast Attack choice, and they hit harder than it could seem at first glance.

HARPY
Great firepower on a tough mobile unit. There aren't that many S10 weapons around, so keeping this alive shouldn't be an issue. Always, always, ALWAYS give it a HVC. For a bit more points it becomes so very much more powerful. It doesn't have good BS, so I'd probably give it Thorn Blast rather than Thorn Volley. Plus it's a unit that can jump to a tank to pop it open in CC if you're having trouble with it. S5+2d6 is an average of 12, and Scyting Talons work on vehicles so they're easier to hit. Three attacks on the charge mean it has good odds of opening anything with weak rear armor. Regeneration is an option, but stay away from Sacs and Glands. You shouldn't need them.

SPORE MINE CLUSTERS
These are still a waste of points. You already have access to loads of templates, so this really won't help you at all. The only reason I'd take these is as a points sink if I have nothing better to spend them on, since they don't give kill points. If you could take them solo it would be cool to take three of them each alone, but that's not the case.

CARNIFEX
These used to be the bread and butter of any army. Now, I'd only take them as CC options in a Spore. Harpies are much better at the whole shooting thing, even if weaker, and the greater mobility is very useful. However, two in two Spores, barebones except for Bioplasma, are not something you want to play against. I probably wouldn't give them regeneration, and save that for the 6-wound MCs. I fear these will become unplayable if Wolfs become popular, because of the I1+1 versus JotWW.

OLD ONE EYE
Very expensive, and he has to walk to battle. It's easy to focus him in a turn to bring him down, so I probably wouldn't bother.

BIOVORE
Weak but cheap. They give decent long range anti-horde capabilities, however, so they may not be a waste. I'd probably use a converted Pyrovore miniature rather than the appropiate mini, since it is much better looking. The huge range and barrage means you can just hide two of these somewhere and fire away for the whole game.

TRYGON
Very probably the new Carnifex, this has the advantage of being faster and about as strong. With Adrenal Glands, which come very cheap, this has 7 S7 I5 MC attacks on the charge. The Trygon Prime doubles as very, very decent synapse node. Probably a unit that can benefit from Regeneration, but it then becomes a bit too expensive.

MAWLOC
The Trygon's little brother, but not shabby at all. The S6 AP2 large pie it places when it appears is an infantry killer, and as it hits on the rear of vehicles it can be used on tanks too. Plus I love the "off my lawn" attitude it has. Hit&Run seems to be there to avoid getting tied up, or to use squishy enemies as mobile cover. With a DS list, it can nome up on T2, attack on turn 3, leave on turn 4, and return on turn 5 to contest an objective or kill something. That mobility is something that can win games, plus you've effectively shot two S6 AP2 pies in the process. The fact that it can screw up H2H combats is very nice. Apparently this doesn't have to start in reserve, so you can have it in play on turn one, hide it, and guarantee a Turn 2 pie without spending points on Lictors and similar units that give +1 to reserve rolls.

TYRANNOFEX
Expensive. However, it gives you access to a very long range S10 weapon, so it may be worth it in the long run. But with so many DSing MCs, I don't think you really need that. If it was at least AP3 it could at least help against other MC lists, but as it stands, I'm not sure this is worth it. (*** however, this is the only unit that can reliably pop Vendettas from turn 1, making it a prime target, and counter, to IG's laser spammer. The question is, would he live long enough to make a difference?***)
 

·
Member
Joined
·
650 Posts
May be interesting to note that (according to the leaked rules) the Mawloc does not have to begin in reserves unlike the ymgarl, lictors, etc. If you have sufficient cover you can put him on the board to start and during turn 1 move pout him into reserves guarenteeing turn 2 pie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
May be interesting to note that (according to the leaked rules) the Mawloc does not have to begin in reserves unlike the ymgarl, lictors, etc. If you have sufficient cover you can put him on the board to start and during turn 1 move pout him into reserves guarenteeing turn 2 pie!
Added that thanks. I've made a list with +2 to reserve rolls and two Mawlocs, but that plan could work even better. The Mawlocs would be in the enemy's face T2, as I doubt they could kill all 18 T6 wounds in a single round of shooting if they start first. Makes me want to play this:
-3 Mawlocs
-Shooty tyrants such as Hive Guards
You pop as many transports as possible on your first turn, then blast them with the Mawloc's S6 AP2. I'm off to build a list right now.

A nice run through, id like to point out two nice units

Troop
27 hormagaunts 216
Toxin sacs

Troop
13 Genestealers 221
Toxin sacs

Better in my opinion than 5 lash whip bonesword warriors
Those are good, but two things. First, I can't help but want to change those Hormagaunts for 20 Termas, and add in a Tervigon as Troops. Sure, it's over 300 points, but I do believe it's 300 points well spent. Of course, you don't always have the points for that, so Hormagaunts would be the way to go then.
As for the Genestealers, it brings up the question on whether or not people should buy Broodlords. I'll add that too, but here's something to think about: Deathleapers. Their -D3 ability is very interesting. You place two of them in cover, and everything else in your army is in reserves. Forced Night Fight makes it likely they will survive. Turn 2 most, if not all, of your army appears, and you place the deathleapers in reserve. This allows you to use the Broodlord's Hypnotic Stare and similar LD dependent powers with a higher success rate. Of course, if you don't need to have them in play to get the +1 to reserve rolls, normal Lictors could work as well or better, as they are much cheaper.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
650 Posts
Added that thanks. I've made a list with +2 to reserve rolls and two Mawlocs, but that plan could work even better. The Mawlocs would be in the enemy's face T2, as I doubt they could kill all 18 T6 wounds in a single round of shooting if they start first. Makes me want to play this:
-3 Mawlocs
-Shooty tyrants such as Hive Guards
You pop as many transports as possible on your first turn, then blast them with the Mawloc's S6 AP2. I'm off to build a list right now.


Those are good, but two things. First, I can't help but want to change those Hormagaunts for 20 Termas, and add in a Tervigon as Troops. Sure, it's over 300 points, but I do believe it's 300 points well spent. Of course, you don't always have the points for that, so Hormagaunts would be the way to go then.
As for the Genestealers, it brings up the question on whether or not people should buy Broodlords. I'll add that too, but here's something to think about: Deathleapers. Their -D3 ability is very interesting. You place two of them in cover, and everything else in your army is in reserves. Forced Night Fight makes it likely they will survive. Turn 2 most, if not all, of your army appears, and you place the deathleapers in reserve. This allows you to use the Broodlord's Hypnotic Stare and similar LD dependent powers with a higher success rate. Of course, if you don't need to have them in play to get the +1 to reserve rolls, normal Lictors could work as well or better, as they are much cheaper.
I believe Deathleeper is listed as unit size 1 (unique) and thus you can only have 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Ravenors have one advantage that I see - they are now the only beasts in the 'Nid army.
Not a particularly great aspect, but it would allow us to send them forward to charge an enemy unit and tie them up rather then allowing them the charge in their turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
No, he meant "one" as in "one in the whole army".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No, he meant "one" as in "one in the whole army".
Well that could be a problem. Well, a Deathleaper and two Lictors then. I missed the part of it being "the" Deathleaper, not "a" Deathleaper. It's a named Lictor, not a different type of unit.

Thanks for pointing that out!
 

·
Member
Joined
·
650 Posts
Well that could be a problem. Well, a Deathleaper and two Lictors then. I missed the part of it being "the" Deathleaper, not "a" Deathleaper. It's a named Lictor, not a different type of unit.

Thanks for pointing that out!
It has nothign to do with "The Deathleaper" but rather the unit size is 1 (unique) which in the rules (brb p49) means you can only have one in your army.
 

·
Bugs'r us!
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
I don't agree with you on all points but there's one thing I'm still oblivious to. Everybody says put the twinVC on the harpy, WHY??? I rarely EVER needed guns to take down tanks in the first place and now with all the awesome tankbusting and tons of mc's I don't really see why spend an other 10 points on some more tank busting. The only reason I can really see if because you can get tons of cheap pie plates anyways, but none come with this str and AP. And VC's take a -1 on the chart, so only penetrating will make them marginally good at tank hunting...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't agree with you on all points but there's one thing I'm still oblivious to. Everybody says put the twinVC on the harpy, WHY??? I rarely EVER needed guns to take down tanks in the first place and now with all the awesome tankbusting and tons of mc's I don't really see why spend an other 10 points on some more tank busting. The only reason I can really see if because you can get tons of cheap pie plates anyways, but none come with this str and AP. And VC's take a -1 on the chart, so only penetrating will make them marginally good at tank hunting...
The way I see it, you pay 10 points for three points in strength and extra range, albeit losing blast size. Playing them barebones is of course an option, or you can give it Adrenal Glands to help it in close combat. However, I tend to face mechanised lists, and even with a -1 S9 will beat S6 at popping Chimeras and Rhinos, even Wave Serpents. S6 versus A11 means you glance with a 5+, penetrate with a 6+. S9 vs A11 means you glance with a 2+, penetrate on a 3+. S6 vs A12 means you can only ever hope to glance, S9 vs A12 is a glance on a 3+, penetration at 4+. Even versus Wave Serpents, S6 will only glance, S8 (because of shields) will glance on a 4+, penetrate with a 5+. The bigger or smaller pie doesn't matter versus vehicles.

There are good alternatives for tank busting, such as the great Hive Guard, but even those will take a turn longer to break something as they walk into range. HVC Harpies can outrange most weapons, and with their great mobility they can stay out of danger until their weapons (and whatever else you have in your army) provide you with nice, soft, squishy green or pink flesh to eat. Or they can then kill the likes of melta/plasma spammers from afar, rendering their obvious "counters" to MCs useless.
 

·
Bugs'r us!
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
Hmm, I see your point though I never had trouble against mech lists. But then again I lost proper long range warriors.

I gotta think this over, I've got about 2 weeks until I get my codex anyways so I've got plenty of time:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hmm, I see your point though I never had trouble against mech lists. But then again I lost proper long range warriors.

I gotta think this over, I've got about 2 weeks until I get my codex anyways so I've got plenty of time:p
I'm going to be using those two weeks to test out to see what works and what doesn't. I'll update this post with my findings, but please keep those comments coming. Let's work like a Hive Mind!
 

·
Bugs'r us!
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
My opponents don't let me play it until I have the dex in my hands:(

I'll get a full review as soon as I'm back home on a proper pc:p
 

·
Bugs'r us!
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
Not even then:(
Ah well, I'll just squish them for at least 5 times in a row. And we'll see about taking it easy on them:p

I'm looking forward to reviewing!:D
 

·
Tyranid Warrior Fanatic
Joined
·
2,668 Posts
Two things to bring up: First, tyrants are not ICs so there is no reason why they should be able to be picked out in CC by opponents. Second, toxin sacs work really well on alpha warriors and tervigons. Much better IMHO than AG. With toxin sacs your alpha warriors will wound T4 and T5 on a 4+ with re-rolls (so they're better at killing T4 and T5), and its the same with tervigons. That means they will have a better chance at wounding anything T4 and higher than they would without toxin sacs.

As for warriors, personally I think dual boneswords is better than bonesword+lash whip. Dual boneswords mean that nob bikers and TWC cry when fighting your warriors, while lash whips help you survive. I prefer the more offensive option to help me kill annoying characters (VULKAN!!!!) and tough units because you won't be dealing enough wounds to take out the enemy's PF anyways, and warriors are resilient enough that even with power weapons they don't really care if they take hits in CC unless they're s8+.
 

·
Bugs'r us!
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
Two things to bring up: First, tyrants are not ICs so there is no reason why they should be able to be picked out in CC by opponents.
Doesn't MC status does the same in this case?
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top