[TornadoCreator]

I've been looking back over my Dark Elves this evening thinking about a somewhat flashy but fun to play against the new Nagash and Glottkin armies, it's intended to be a competitive list for use in 3000 points uncomped. Here's what I've come up with. It's not perfect but should be interesting at least.

- 3000 Points -

General - Dread Lord on Black Dragon w/ Repeater Crossbow, Halberd, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Tricksters Helm, Cloak Of Twilight - 565 Points

I know, it'll get cannonballed off the board turn 1 but if it doesn't it'll just be hilarious fun to fly this thing over the guys army. The Dread Lord is pretty beefy too with 1+/3++ against shooting/magic, killing blow and multiple wounds (D3), on the first round of combat should be amusing. Admittedly he's flimsy-er in combat with no ward save, but 1+ armour and rerolling failed to wound rolls seems enough. The dragon may not last long, but the general himself should be relatively safe.

Lord - Supreme Sorceress Level 4 (Lore Of Shadows) w/ Book Of Ashur, Talisman Of Endurance - 320 Points
Hero - Death Hag BSB w/ Witchbrew, Cauldron Of Blood, War Banner - 265 Points
Hero - Sorceress Level 2 (Lore Of Metal or Dark Magic depending) w/ Dispel Scroll, Opal Amulet - 155 Points

Normally I wouldn't go so "all out" on characters and magic, but this is Dark Elves, magic is what we do, and with 2 wizards and warlocks I'm probably getting off key spells when I need them. Unless I'm up against High Elves, Lizardmen or Tzeentch Chaos, I'm dominating the magic phase easily. I have gone over the 25% on Lords but with new End Times rules that's Ok.

Core - 6x Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Shields, Full Command - 150 Points
Core - 6x Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Shields, Full Command - 150 Points
Core - 13x Darkshards w/ Shields, Full Command, Banner Of Eternal Flame - 209 Points
Core - 14x Bleakswords w/ Full Command, Lichebone Pennant - 171 Points
Special - 32x Black Guard w/ Full Command, Razor Standard - 555 Points
Special - 2x Reaper Bolt Throwers - 140 Points
Rare - 6x Doomfire Warlocks w/ Master Of Warlocks - 160 Points
Rare - 6x Doomfire Warlocks w/ Master Of Warlocks - 160 Points

Dark Riders and Warlocks should create some havoc on the flanks, running them in units of 3x2 for maneuverability. Main bulk of the army is with the Cauldron Of Blood in the Black Guard unit for an 11 wide horde unit with 4 ranks (4 on each side of the Cauldron). This is my BIG unit, so if this screws up I'm probably not winning this game. I'll hide the level 2 in the Darkshards running 2x7, and hide the level 4 in the Bleakswords running 3x5. Ideally these shouldn't see combat but they're big enough to hold their own and the Darkshards can take out regen crap like Trolls if need be. Bolt Throwers are there as anti-chaff.

Total Characters - 1305
Total Core - 680
Total Special - 695
Total Rare - 320

Grand Total - Exactly 3000 Points (assuming my maths is good)

All things considered I think this is a capable army that's spread out enough to not feel too "deathstar", while still packing the big Black Guard unit of death. The central unit is worth 810 points, but there's 565 points worth of Dragon, 491 points in the Bleakswords acting as bodyguard and bunker for my Level 4, and multiple small fast moving units out there to cause some trouble; so eggs are reall not quite in one basket so to speak; that said this army does use synergy (except the Dragon, that's just there because inside I'm a 6 year old going, "cool Dragon!!!"). The Black Guard is good but good magical support will make all the difference for them I think. I would have liked to run my Dark Riders and Warlocks in two units of 10 each, but I ran out of points...

So what do people think?

 

[d_k_patt]

Will it be fun hell yes, will it be competetive i'm thinking not so much.

First point you will be strangled for magic with a level 4 and 3 level 2's think you would do better dropping the level 2 and picking metal for your level 4 use the warlocks to debuf strength and toughness use level 4 to boost armour and kill 1+ armour guys as you have nothing capable of doing so.

I think the cauldren with Black guard is best however don't take witchbrew -3 leadership for frenzy you will be pulled all over the place ruin of khaine fencers blades to give her more attacks and protect a little bit more.

Core i would personal prefrence drop bleak swords and and pick up more dark shardes with shields they are bleak swords that shoot and they are worth it.

Dragon well you know how this is gunna go and you want to take him. I will however give you the usual he is an elf only tough 3 blah blah blah. He is alot of points you could get a big block for the cost. However when using him make sure you have something to eat challenages a cheap peg master to tag along or a champ in some dark riders.

Other than that drop the full comands, master in warloacks not needed, command in bleak swords and shardes not needed. Champ and banner and only take a champ protect a character from a challenge, however in a wizard bunker standard only just refuse challenage and move the wizard out of harms way. black guard champ standard dark riders muscian only for the running away. You will save shed loads of points.

I have to say it looks as though you are trying to stretch to 3000pts?

Also the 50% lords is now a standard rule they FAQ'd it.

 

[TornadoCreator]

Will it be fun hell yes, will it be competetive i'm thinking not so much.

First point you will be strangled for magic with a level 4 and 3 level 2's think you would do better dropping the level 2 and picking metal for your level 4 use the warlocks to debuf strength and toughness use level 4 to boost armour and kill 1+ armour guys as you have nothing capable of doing so

Probably right, but I don't ever expect all 4 casters to be casting in the same turn. It's more for the flexibility. When it comes down to it, 'Mindrazor' on elves is hilarious and evil. Sure, 1+ Armour is nice, but against Strength 9, what armour? Alternatively I can reduce enemy toughness with 'The Withering' and I always have the threat of 'Pit Of Shades'. There's a reason Shadow is a popular lore. I do like Metal, which is why I consider it for my level 2, I'm just not sure it's as always useful as Shadow. Considering I'll have a +5 to cast, I'm probably 3 dicing 'Mindrazor' which is a scary thought.

I think the cauldren with Black guard is best however don't take witchbrew -3 leadership for frenzy you will be pulled all over the place ruin of khaine fencers blades to give her more attacks and protect a little bit more.

Probably right on the Witchbrew but as I took a magic banner I can't take a weapon can I? I could get rid of the banner too, but an extra +1 static Combat Res seems like a mathematically sound investment. Doesn't sound like much I know but on average you need about 4 attacks in any combat to get 1 wound. There's the hit roll, wound roll, armour save, and ward save in most combats. Mathematically you need at least 4 Strength 5 attacks at above average WS to get a better average result.

Core i would personal prefrence drop bleak swords and and pick up more dark shardes with shields they are bleak swords that shoot and they are worth it.

Honestly, the extra parry save and magic banner, plus cheaper cost, made me think the Bleakswords could work well. They're just a bit more defensive for a bunker unit; though agreed, more Darkshards or even bumping up the Dark Riders would be nice. I'm not sure I need the shooting though, I have quite a bit already; but it's worth considering.

Dragon well you know how this is gunna go and you want to take him. I will however give you the usual he is an elf only tough 3 blah blah blah. He is alot of points you could get a big block for the cost. However when using him make sure you have something to eat challenages a cheap peg master to tag along or a champ in some dark riders.

Yeah... I just want to use my lovely Dragon model. If used properly challengers shouldn't be an issue, but every unit has a Champion, so if needbe, I fly in and join a unit.

Other than that drop the full comands, master in warloacks not needed, command in bleak swords and shardes not needed. Champ and banner and only take a champ protect a character from a challenge, however in a wizard bunker standard only just refuse challenage and move the wizard out of harms way. black guard champ standard dark riders muscian only for the running away. You will save shed loads of points.

I don't know, People always say that full command is a waste but I've won so many combats with tied CR because I have a musician, or I'll win by 1 thanks to the standard bearer. Then there's Blood & Glory, which gives me a good starting position as I've got 5 banners, BSB and General. It'll take a lot for me to hit break point; especially as my general, banner and BSB aren't in the same unit. I've seen so many "optimal" builds that are terrible for Blood & Glory because they only take banners in their deathstar. I get that I've got about 170 points tied up in unit commands but really, they seem to do a lot for that so I'm reluctant to take them off. Admittedly some like the Warlocks are there because I had an extra 20 points left over, so why not, but it's not like you can do much with 20 points.

I have to say it looks as though you are trying to stretch to 3000pts?

Also the 50% lords is now a standard rule they FAQ'd it.

Yeah, this is basically my 2000/2250/2400 point army beefed up a bit, with a Dragon added so it may look a little stretched. What can I say, I really want to play with my big Dragon... the way I look at it, even if they do cannon it off the board, if they're shooting my Dragon, they're not shooting my Cauldron.

As for the 50% Lords, I know it's FAQ'd but as far as I'm concerned until it's reasonable to expect your opponent to own the book, or you have the book to show them; special rules are special, and your opponent has every right to refuse to use them. I'm sorry, but GW has made the new rules harder to get hold of than a diamond the size of a testicle; as such, I consider End Times to be variant rules, just like I do Storm Of Magic. Unless we've agreed beforehand that we're playing End Times, I'd consider it unsportsmanlike to turn up with over 25% Lords and pretty much everyone I know feels the same. This is specifically an "End Times" list, so I allowed myself to exceed 25% Lords but I usually won't.

Hell, I play Chaos Dwarfs and I get people complaining that my army is exotic and I'm told it's courteous to at least ask my opponent first, despite my army being explicitly game legal, (and I do, and most people IRL are happy to play them)... and literally anyone can get the Tamurkhan book online right now, so those rules are more readily available than the Nagash or Glottkin rules, the combined Undead army list, or the combined Chaos army lists. If a rule is now universal, the book with it in should be readily available on store shelves, that's what I say.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Will take a look at my list and maybe make a few tweeks.

 

[d_k_patt]

The faq was to the main rules not just the the end times.

Yeah a Muscian is worth it if you don't have nothing better spend them on as for the bleak swords versus dark shards as a bunker the dark shards would be more useful.

I agree shadow is better but you can defo get a spell to deal with armour but though you are likely to get mind razor it's not for sure. I still think 4 casters is way to much why do you need the warlocks if you have shadow?

Also war banner is not really worth it the fencers blades will just give you a bit of better protection making it harder to hit.

170pts in command that's crazy